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I think we need to start reconsidering our relationship with ISIS? Watch

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    This sounds quite similar to Nevile Chamberlain and Winston Churchill. Nevile wanted to reason during WW2 but Winston Churchill did not agree... Without Winston Churchill's convincing speeches on victory for Britain, Winston Churchill wouldn't of been elected to be prime minister and Britain wouldn't be the way it is today.
    Just an example of how reasoning isn't the best solution.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    We need to negotiate with them as a means to an end. By all means send in the snipers and smart bombs to the locations of the isis vip, to take out the leaders after the negotiations are over. But only then.

    For as much as you mostly prepubscent tsr users may love to whack the straw pinata, but whilst there are civilised areas we are carpet bombing, innocents are going to die.

    I agree that this isn't the same scale a problem as it has been with iraq and afghanistan, but still the point remains.

    Every innocent that dies, from either side is an innocent too many.

    I cry everytime i watch those beheading videos, and if you haven't seen one yet, i dare you to google it. just don't then come running back to me with hatred in your eyes.

    Because hatred won't solve this problem. We need to feel pity on them. This of them as a deviant. They need our help, not our bullets!?!
    Carpet bomb? The Russians have been. The UK couldn't carpet bomb even if it wanted to.

    Spoiler:
    Show


    UK armed aircraft taking part in the fight against ISIS:

    Tornado armed with laser guided bombs (LGBs). They can also carry the Brimstone missile which is more accurate & causes less collateral damage then equivalent American AGMs.


    Typhoon carrying LGBs


    Reaper carrying LGBs & Hellfire AGMs


    What Carpet Bombing looks like:





    The RAF's Tornado GR4s, Typhoon FGR4s & Reaper RPAS are armed only with precision guided weapons. We don't have enough assets or money to carpet bomb anyone.

    Do you know how many civilians have been killed by UK air strikes? Zero.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    We need to negotiate with them as a means to an end. By all means send in the snipers and smart bombs to the locations of the isis vip, to take out the leaders after the negotiations are over. But only then.

    For as much as you mostly prepubscent tsr users may love to whack the straw pinata, but whilst there are civilised areas we are carpet bombing, innocents are going to die.

    I agree that this isn't the same scale a problem as it has been with iraq and afghanistan, but still the point remains.

    Every innocent that dies, from either side is an innocent too many.

    I cry everytime i watch those beheading videos, and if you haven't seen one yet, i dare you to google it. just don't then come running back to me with hatred in your eyes.

    Because hatred won't solve this problem. We need to feel pity on them. This of them as a deviant. They need our help, not our bullets!?!
    I think you may have replied to the wrong person.

    I cry everytime i watch those beheading videos
    Well, stop watching them.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    you mostly prepubscent tsr users
    Condescension on the basis of an unmeritorious qualification like age isn't going to help make your point, especially when it's false as well as fallacious. A majority of TSR's traffic comes from people that are 25 or older (source).

    Every innocent that dies, from either side is an innocent too many.

    I cry everytime i watch those beheading videos, and if you haven't seen one yet, i dare you to google it. just don't then come running back to me with hatred in your eyes.
    So, peace at any price? Appealing to emotion isn't helping your case either.
    You clearly have a very poor understanding of ethics if you think that appeasement isn't going to cost more innocent lives in the long run than the current strategy.

    Because hatred won't solve this problem. We need to feel pity on them. This of them as a deviant. They need our help, not our bullets!?!
    Get real. These aren't people who can be or are willing to be negotiated with; what you are arguing for is technically even more misguided than what your counterparts in the 1930s argued for, since the Nazis were at least willing to negotiate peace.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    Carpet bomb? The Russians have been. The UK couldn't carpet bomb even if it wanted to.
    Spoiler:
    Show


    UK armed aircraft taking part in the fight against ISIS:

    Tornado armed with laser guided bombs (LGBs). They can also carry the Brimstone missile which is more accurate & causes less collateral damage then equivalent American AGMs.


    Typhoon carrying LGBs


    Reaper carrying LGBs & Hellfire AGMs


    What Carpet Bombing looks like:




    The RAF's Tornado GR4s, Typhoon FGR4s & Reaper RPAS are armed only with precision guided weapons. We don't have enough assets or money to carpet bomb anyone.

    Do you know how many civilians have been killed by UK air strikes? Zero.
    1. News
    2. World
    3. Middle East
    Isis air strikes: Civilian death toll from western bombing 'set to reach 1,000 within days'http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6914601.html
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    Also most of these Isis people betrayed their OWN family, what makes you think they'll reason with you?
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    (Original post by john2054)
    1. News
    2. World
    3. Middle East
    Isis air strikes: Civilian death toll from western bombing 'set to reach 1,000 within days'http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6914601.html
    This is the most up to date info I could find -

    http://researchbriefings.parliament....ummary/SN06995

    Important snippets -

    The RAF is the primary service in this operation and has deployed a mixture of combat, surveillance, reconnaissance, and refuelling/transport aircraft. Aircraft currently deployed include:
    • 10 Tornado GR4 fast jet aircraft (including 2 additional aircraft deployed from 2 December 2015)
    • 6 Typhoon combat aircraft (from 2 December 2015)
    • Reaper Remotely Piloted Air Systems
    • Airseeker surveillance aircraft
    • Voyager air-to-air refuelling aircraft
    • 2 C130 transport aircraft.
    • E3-D Sentry aircraft
    • Sentinel surveillance aircraft.
    (Once again highlighting that we couldn't carpet bomb anyone as we don't have the assets)

    Civilian casualties
    The Government has consistently maintained that no civilian casualties in Iraq or Syria, to date, have resulted from UK air strikes.

    We can't control what our allies do. However there are no reports of the UK killing a single civilian.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    What i mean is that these are people's brothers fathers and sons, and they are now in a losing position. And i am the first to point out that the terrible things they have done, are unacceptable. But they are still human beings, and we need to move on.

    A lot of bad things have done, but this is a demographic we have demonized and driven in to a corner. Rather than to continue to hurl bombs and bullets at down, i think now is the time to sit down with the isis high command and negotiate a truce, okay?!?
    Anto-western propaganda and a suggestion of peace with ISIS. You sir are an apologist!

    ISIS is an enemy of the state, not just militarily but also culturally in their imperialistic desires. If we have them on the ground we should not relent, we must strike and go for the kill.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    This is the most up to date info I could find -

    http://researchbriefings.parliament....ummary/SN06995

    Important snippets -

    The RAF is the primary service in this operation and has deployed a mixture of combat, surveillance, reconnaissance, and refuelling/transport aircraft. Aircraft currently deployed include:
    • 10 Tornado GR4 fast jet aircraft (including 2 additional aircraft deployed from 2 December 2015)
    • 6 Typhoon combat aircraft (from 2 December 2015)
    • Reaper Remotely Piloted Air Systems
    • Airseeker surveillance aircraft
    • Voyager air-to-air refuelling aircraft
    • 2 C130 transport aircraft.
    • E3-D Sentry aircraft
    • Sentinel surveillance aircraft.
    (Once again highlighting that we couldn't carpet bomb anyone as we don't have the assets)

    Civilian casualties
    The Government has consistently maintained that no civilian casualties in Iraq or Syria, to date, have resulted from UK air strikes.

    We can't control what our allies do. However there are no reports of the UK killing a single civilian.
    The UK government killed over a million in Iraq, by dropping bombs and shooting and torturing them. this is not up for debate. They dropped more bombs on iraq then they did in the first and second world wars combined. get a life.

    by the most scientifically respected measures available, Iraq lost 1.4 million lives as a result of OIL, saw 4.2 million additional people injured, and 4.5 million people become refugees. The 1.4 million dead was 5% of the population

    http://warisacrime.org/iraq
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    (Original post by john2054)
    What i mean is that these are people's brothers fathers and sons, and they are now in a losing position. And i am the first to point out that the terrible things they have done, are unacceptable. But they are still human beings, and we need to move on.

    A lot of bad things have done, but this is a demographic we have demonized and driven in to a corner. Rather than to continue to hurl bombs and bullets at down, i think now is the time to sit down with the isis high command and negotiate a truce, okay?!?
    Your crazy these people are pschopaths with brain disorders believing they are right.
    They won't negotiate
    What there doing is unforgivable
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    Your crazy these people are pschopaths with brain disorders believing they are right.
    They won't negotiate
    What there doing is unforgivable
    i guess you are right about isis, but i'm not backing down over the issue of the deaths we caused in iraq. obviously the government is not going to accept liability for the civilian fatalities they are wholly responsible. but this means nothing. ask any muslim!
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    (Original post by *Alisha*)
    They don't represent Islam
    They represent Islam just as much as you or I do.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    We need to negotiate with them as a means to an end. By all means send in the snipers and smart bombs to the locations of the isis vip, to take out the leaders after the negotiations are over. But only then.

    For as much as you mostly prepubscent tsr users may love to whack the straw pinata, but whilst there are civilised areas we are carpet bombing, innocents are going to die.

    I agree that this isn't the same scale a problem as it has been with iraq and afghanistan, but still the point remains.

    Every innocent that dies, from either side is an innocent too many.

    I cry everytime i watch those beheading videos, and if you haven't seen one yet, i dare you to google it. just don't then come running back to me with hatred in your eyes.

    Because hatred won't solve this problem. We need to feel pity on them. This of them as a deviant. They need our help, not our bullets!?!
    You are a walking talking embodiment of the cucked left and it is those like you that have caused the problems we are facing today.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    This is the most up to date info I could find -

    http://researchbriefings.parliament....ummary/SN06995

    Important snippets -

    The RAF is the primary service in this operation and has deployed a mixture of combat, surveillance, reconnaissance, and refuelling/transport aircraft. Aircraft currently deployed include:
    • 10 Tornado GR4 fast jet aircraft (including 2 additional aircraft deployed from 2 December 2015)
    • 6 Typhoon combat aircraft (from 2 December 2015)
    • Reaper Remotely Piloted Air Systems
    • Airseeker surveillance aircraft
    • Voyager air-to-air refuelling aircraft
    • 2 C130 transport aircraft.
    • E3-D Sentry aircraft
    • Sentinel surveillance aircraft.
    (Once again highlighting that we couldn't carpet bomb anyone as we don't have the assets)

    Civilian casualties
    The Government has consistently maintained that no civilian casualties in Iraq or Syria, to date, have resulted from UK air strikes.

    We can't control what our allies do. However there are no reports of the UK killing a single civilian.
    That alone shows the ineffectiveness of UK bombing.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    You are a walking talking embodiment of the cucked left and it is those like you that have caused the problems we are facing today.
    i have lots of muslim friends. quit attacking me thanks
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    (Original post by john2054)
    i have lots of muslim friends. quit attacking me thanks

    WTF are you talking about?
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    WTF are you talking about?
    i have lots of muslim friends, and they don't like it when they see their brothers and sisters being mown down in the middle east. they were so happy when i told them that i thought that we need to reconsider our position with isis. inshallah
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    (Original post by john2054)
    The UK government killed over a million in Iraq, by dropping bombs and shooting and torturing them. this is not up for debate. They dropped more bombs on iraq then they did in the first and second world wars combined. get a life.

    by the most scientifically respected measures available, Iraq lost 1.4 million lives as a result of OIL, saw 4.2 million additional people injured, and 4.5 million people become refugees. The 1.4 million dead was 5% of the population

    http://warisacrime.org/iraq
    Not a single civilian has been killed during Op SHADER (so since November 2014) by the UK in either Iraq or Syria.

    So you say 1 million were killed by the UK alone during the 2003 conflict? Not even remotely true.
    Sunni & Shia Muslims killed each other in droves during their pointless sectarian battles. Any casualties inflicted by any ISAF nation, even the USA, doesn't come close to the amount of Muslim casualties they've inflicted on each other.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    i have lots of muslim friends, and they don't like it when they see their brothers and sisters being mown down in the middle east. they were so happy when i told them that i thought that we need to reconsider our position with isis. inshallah
    You must be trolling with a comment like that. I don't think even leftists can be that stupid.
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    Why does the leader's name end with Al-Baghdadi?
 
 
 
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