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    (Original post by generallee)
    Leave: 46% (+3)Remain: 39% (-3)Don’t Know: 11% (nc)Would Not Vote: 4% (nc)

    Source: Guido Fawkes website

    Yesssss!! We can really do this guys!
    Absolutely mate
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    chances are, almost all of the 'dont know' or undecided voters will swing to remain
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    And so it should be. Personally I've already voted leave, and really hope we do, but I have a feeling the result will be stay...
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Yes, the more likely Leave goes through, the more turbulent the markets are becoming and the more evident the economic impact is going to be. Over £110bn wiped off the Uk markets alone over the past week when Remain odds have shortened from 70% to 57%, and the markets starting to tank.

    Still who cares right.... right?
    By 'UK Markets' you actually mean the FTSE 100.


    These gigantic 100 multinational companies deal a lot with the EU and so the uncertainty will affect them disproportionately. Indeed, only 6% of our businesses trade with the EU. The other 94% will be rejoicing over the cutting of red tape and the possibility of other markets opening up.

    Let these multinationals fend for themselves, let's look to the small/medium businesses that make up the majority of our companies.


    Also, an interesting article from the left-leaning Indy on the speculation in the financial markets.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7081036.html
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Leave: 46% (+3)Remain: 39% (-3)Don’t Know: 11% (nc)Would Not Vote: 4% (nc)

    Source: Guido Fawkes website

    Yesssss!! We can really do this guys!
    It also begs the question:


    Are students out of touch with UK society? Given the gulf in voting intentions between students and the rest of the population.

    SS
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Yes I did, Hargreaves Lansdowne is not an IB and say that the impacts may not be 'as negative' as expected - it's mere suggestion that the market acts in different ways to the consensus.

    Comes back to the point that no-one knows, but yet again you have not provided proof of an IB saying there will be no impact/positive impact.
    Their chief investment officer did say however: "Taking a market view on big economic events will add value if you can consistently get it right, but making such calls is notoriously difficult,". So it seems that people are over estimating how negative (if at all) brexit will be in the long run. Although economics is just part of the equation, there are other aspects such as democracy will people value more than +/- some cash in their wallet.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    This is so ironic. You allow explanations, clarifications, and counter arguments to the undemocratic aspects of the UK, and yet with the EU it's a one-way street. E.g. that MEPs have to vote something through and they are elected is completely irrelevant, is it? Because muh council wasn't elected. Well it was, each member states appoints a member of their choosing, don't like yours, vote for a different party so they can appoint someone else.

    I won't argue with someone who goes about it with false information, blindness, and double standards.

    Anyway, at the end of the day, you are just a selfish nationalist. I almost want you to leave just so we are rid of people like you, except that would be unfair to all those who can actually think, who aren't into isolationism.
    There is such a stupid misconception to which you just gave an example.

    Each member state nominates s.o. to be a commissioner, but it is illegal for a commissioner to work on behalf of a member state; they must work on behalf of the EU.

    That means they're not a representative because representatives work or speak on behalf of s.o. else.

    Actually respond to this argument instead of ignoring it when you realise you're wrong.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    I've made that point on other threads . You said that we would be stronger outside the EU. That's a statement that can't be proved true.

    All I've said is that, the only certainty is that we will be worse off economically in the short-term. Many businesses have already talked about shifting staff in some cases to mainland Europe, and the uncertainty will act to cut investment rates.

    So, versus staying in EU, we will have, from leaving:
    - A decidedly negative short-term impact.
    - An unknown long-term impact.
    That's not exactly what I would call a compelling economic case for leaving.
    And sayign "we would be eaker in the EU in the long-term" is also a statement that can't be proved true; that's why we're having this debate so we can hopefully make an informed decision as to what we should do.

    Yes, the burden of proof can be said to be more on us (brexiteers), but that doesn't invalidate the premise of the argument and the referendum.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    There is such a stupid misconception to which you just gave an example.

    Each member state nominates s.o. to be a commissioner, but it is illegal for a commissioner to work on behalf of a member state; they must work on behalf of the EU.

    That means they're not a representative because representatives work or speak on behalf of s.o. else.

    Actually respond to this argument instead of ignoring it when you realise you're wrong.
    Edit your post when you realize you have written complete garbage.
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    And sayign "we would be eaker in the EU in the long-term" is also a statement that can't be proved true; that's why we're having this debate so we can hopefully make an informed decision as to what we should do.

    Yes, the burden of proof can be said to be more on us (brexiteers), but that doesn't invalidate the premise of the argument and the referendum.
    Yes but I never said we would be weaker in the long-term. You, however, said we would be stronger.

    I choose my words carefully
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    Fairly depressing news for those of us who want a modern, progressive country with a strong economy and a forward-looking internationalist posture. Most of the Leave leadership are either hopeless nostalgics stuck in the 1950s (or advocating that - people like Nigel Farage) or are far-right ideologically extreme Tories who resent any kind of regulation and want to collapse worker's rights and terminate the state. (Michael Gove, Ian Duncan-Smith)
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    (Original post by Axion)
    That's such a laughable appeal to patriotism... The UK used to be driving force, it's not any more, and appealing to past events for future precedent in this case is entirely useless.
    Now let's see.

    We present a patriotic case for restoring the country's sovereignty and regaining our ability to be a self governing, proud, economically successful nation.

    And you talk the UK down, say the country is as good as finished can't survive without being ruled by a bunch of second rate, drunken, unelected Eurocrats.

    (AND what's more, us leaving the EU will cause world war three and the end of western political civilisation. )

    Yet we are seven points ahead in the polls?

    How could that be?

    There is one campaign that is turning out to be laughable and it isn't ours...
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    By 'UK Markets' you actually mean the FTSE 100.


    These gigantic 100 multinational companies deal a lot with the EU and so the uncertainty will affect them disproportionately. Indeed, only 6% of our businesses trade with the EU. The other 94% will be rejoicing over the cutting of red tape and the possibility of other markets opening up.

    Let these multinationals fend for themselves, let's look to the small/medium businesses that make up the majority of our companies.


    Also, an interesting article from the left-leaning Indy on the speculation in the financial markets.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7081036.html
    Most smaller businesses are not affected by most EU regulation, as they are exempt from a lot of it. The larger businesses that are affected are all strongly pro-EU almost without exception, which should tell you something.

    When you say "let the multinationals fend for themselves", you mean you will be happy to see about 2m jobs walk out of the country as the major car manufacturers relocate?

    Do you think BMW, Nissan, Toyota, etc, etc are going to stay here if the UK leaves?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Edit your post when you realize you have written complete garbage.
    How so?

    Please substantiate your points.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Now let's see.

    We present a patriotic case for restoring the country's sovereignty and regaining our ability to be a self governing, proud, economically successful nation.

    And you talk the UK down, say the country is as good as finished can't survive without being ruled by a bunch of second rate, drunken, unelected Eurocrats.

    (AND what's more, us leaving the EU will cause world war three and the end of western political civilisation. )

    Yet we are seven points ahead in the polls?

    How could that be?

    There is one campaign that is turning out to be laughable and it isn't ours...
    Lol. I DEFINITELY said the country is as good as finished, and that we can't survive without being ruled by a bunch of second rate, drunken, unelected Eurocrats.

    Thankfully I'm not too sure all of the Leave campaign shares your viewpoint, or I certainly hope not, else it's a selfish tantrum vote.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Yes but I never said we would be weaker in the long-term. You, however, said we would be stronger.

    I choose my words carefully
    I know you didn't

    I'm simply saying that isn't a good enough reason to discredit this entire debate.

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    I think the 11% uncertainty will swiftly change closer to the time and pull the 'remain' ahead of 'leave' - leaving not some but many disheartened?

    I am curious to know what the EU/EEA origin students think of this situation? - Would you rather UK leave EU or stay? And why?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Fairly depressing news for those of us who want a modern, progressive country with a strong economy and a forward-looking internationalist posture. Most of the Leave leadership are either hopeless nostalgics stuck in the 1950s (or advocating that - people like Nigel Farage) or are far-right ideologically extreme Tories who resent any kind of regulation and want to collapse worker's rights and terminate the state. (Michael Gove, Ian Duncan-Smith)
    Maybe your side of the debate could try and win the political argument, so that a "progressive" government could be elected? Just a thought?
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    I know you didn't

    I'm simply saying that isn't a good enough reason to discredit this entire debate.

    OK i'm confused now!

    I said that we'd be weaker short-term - almost everyone agrees.

    You said that we'd be stronger (presumably long-term).
    Some say we'd be weaker long-term, and these are generally credible institutions.
    Can't see many credible institutions saying we're better off long-term outside the EU.
    I'd say the future is anyone's guess.

    Net result = Short-term pain, unclear if there is any long-term gain. If EU breaks up thereafter, can be sure of longer-term feedback loop pain.

    So again, I see zero compelling reason to leave from an economic standpoint, given the limited future certainty. Again, I'd also much rather leave in the future, it it became obvious we needed to, from a point of economic stability and sound finances, not whilst most European economies are teetering on the edge of the Grand Canyon!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Most smaller businesses are not affected by most EU regulation, as they are exempt from a lot of it. The larger businesses that are affected are all strongly pro-EU almost without exception, which should tell you something.

    When you say "let the multinationals fend for themselves", you mean you will be happy to see about 2m jobs walk out of the country as the major car manufacturers relocate?

    Do you think BMW, Nissan, Toyota, etc, etc are going to stay here if the UK leaves?
    I cannot speak about those specific companies as i don't have access to their senior management, nor a lie detector but i do know that Boeing have committed to staying in the UK, regardless of outcome.
 
 
 
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