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    (Original post by Observatory)
    What I have said no more justifies what he did than saying it is worse to murder five than three people justifies murdering three people.
    A guy that shoots, stabs and kicks a woman on the floor is better than a Muslim that cuts a soldiers throat and runs around with it because the former is a patriot.

    Sorry, I shouldn't say Right Wing. I should just say extremists like yourself.

    The reality is that people like you would justify homicidal Muslim maniacs if you were born elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    The difference is they're against destroying British society.

    This man is certainly a murderer and probably also a terrorist but he probably isn't also a traitor, unlike a British citizen who murders a British soldier to try to bring about the defeat of the British army in a foreign country.

    There is some difference, and the latter is in fact worse.
    Well in these 'radical Islamists' it could be argued that they are against destroying and/or slandering Islam.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Well in these 'radical Islamists' it could be argued that they are against destroying and/or slandering Islam.
    Lol. Beat me to it.

    Muslim extremists use exactly the same sort of justification for their behavior.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    A guy that shoots, stabs and kicks a woman on the floor is better than a Muslim that cuts a soldiers throat and runs around with it because the former is a patriot.

    Sorry, I shouldn't say Right Wing. I should just say extremists like yourself.

    The reality is that people like you would justify homicidal Muslim maniacs if you were born elsewhere.
    Bomber Harris killed women and children who were enemies of this country, in order to defeat those enemies. Lord Haw Haw broadcast pro-Nazi propaganda. I do not think Bomber Harris is worse than Lord Haw Haw and that is not an extremist position.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Well in these 'radical Islamists' it could be argued that they are against destroying and/or slandering Islam.
    Yes, my point being that Britain and Islam aren't causes of equal value, that the British cause is superior to that of a dysfunctional alien religion.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Yes, my point being that Britain and Islam aren't causes of equal value, that the British cause is superior to that of a dysfunctional alien religion.
    But its not a 'British' cause

    its a nationalistic cause which is skeptical of other cultures, skeptical of immigration and refugees, critical of other races and centred around hate and self-preservation and isolationism

    not very different to the islamic one, except its vaguer because the scriptures were written some 1500 years ago
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Bomber Harris killed women and children who were enemies of this country, in order to defeat those enemies.
    Lol. Sounds like the justification for a suicide bombing
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Lol. Sounds like the justification for a suicide bombing
    If you believe that the RAF is morally equivalent to Al-Qaeda then it is you and not I who holds extreme opinions. Perhaps you would also prefer to go back to to WWII and lose it.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    But its not a 'British' cause

    its a nationalistic cause which is skeptical of other cultures, skeptical of immigration and refugees, critical of other races and centred around hate and self-preservation and isolationism

    not very different to the islamic one, except its vaguer because the scriptures were written some 1500 years ago
    Those are not anti-British values, they are emphatically pro-British values.

    Now, they are values that many British people don't agree with, at least the way he formulates them, and the manner in which he tries to advance them is illegal and hostile to our constitution, but that does not make him a traitor.

    Consider the difference between someone who assassinates Winston Churchill in order to bring about a surrender to the Nazis and someone who assassinates Winston Churchill because he believes that Winston Churchill is not very good at fighting the war. They both would, and should, be criminal but the former is also treasonous whereas the latter is not.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    If you believe that the RAF is morally equivalent to Al-Qaeda then it is you and not I who holds extreme opinions. Perhaps you would also prefer to go back to to WWII and lose it.
    Nope. You are the one who made them moral equivalents by declaring women and children to be enemies like some sort of Islamic psychopath.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Those are not anti-British values, they are emphatically pro-British values.

    Now, they are values that many British people don't agree with, at least the way he formulates them, and the manner in which he tries to advance them is illegal and hostile to our constitution, but that does not make him a traitor.

    Consider the difference between someone who assassinates Winston Churchill in order to bring about a surrender to the Nazis and someone who assassinates Winston Churchill because he believes that Winston Churchill is not very good at fighting the war. They both would, and should, be criminal but the former is also treasonous whereas the latter is not.
    As a British person, I don't see shutting ourselves off to the world and rejecting other races and cultures as a British value. This is the 21st century.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Nope. You are the one who made them moral equivalents by declaring women and children to be enemies like some sort of Islamic psychopath.
    That the RAF deliberately killed women and children in order to defeat Nazi Germany is not in dispute. If you regard this as Al-Q behaviour then you regard the RAF as morally equivalent to Al-Q, you regard the Allies as a whole as morally equivalent to Al-Q. In which case what's the functional difference between you and a Nazi apologist?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    As a British person, I don't see shutting ourselves off to the world and rejecting other races and cultures as a British value. This is the 21st century.
    As I said, not all British people agree with those values. But those values are not intended to harm Britain or serve the interests of some other group. Islamic values are. In Islam, religious nationalism trumps ethnic or linguistic nationalism.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That the RAF deliberately killed women and children in order to defeat Nazi Germany is not in dispute.
    Except they were not.

    There may have been mass bombings. The point was not to murder kids.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    As I said, not all British people agree with those values. But those values are not intended to harm Britain or serve the interests of some other group. Islamic values are. In Islam, religious nationalism trumps ethnic or linguistic nationalism.
    Those values of nationalism, isolationism, skepticism of other races and cultures does and is currently harming British values - as the collective western inaction towards the Syrian Civil War / Assad Regime has meant that we are experiencing the resulting immigration. This is just one example, but some extreme right wing 'British' values do affect us, directly or indirectly.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Except they were not.

    There may have been mass bombings. The point was not to murder kids.
    Sophistry. At best, murdering kids was accepted as the cost of doing business.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That the RAF deliberately killed women and children in order to defeat Nazi Germany is not in dispute. If you regard this as Al-Q behaviour then you regard the RAF as morally equivalent to Al-Q, you regard the Allies as a whole as morally equivalent to Al-Q. In which case what's the functional difference between you and a Nazi apologist?
    ERr... well I like Jews.

    In any case, you are the one advocating the mass killings of women and children like Al-Q. Not me.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Those values of nationalism, isolationism, skepticism of other races and cultures does and is currently harming British values - as the collective western inaction towards the Syrian Civil War / Assad Regime has meant that we are experiencing the resulting immigration. This is just one example, but some extreme right wing 'British' values do affect us, directly or indirectly.
    This is just a partisan point. You think left policies are better for Britain, he thinks right policies are. But you are both thinking about what is best for Britain. This is what makes neither of you traitors.

    The Rigby murderers probably caused less actual damage to Britain than this fellow but they were traitors because their goal was to help defeat the British state in war with its foreign enemies.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    ERr... well I like Jews.

    In any case, you are the one advocating the mass killings of women and children like Al-Q. Not me.
    Either you endorse the Al-Q methods, or you endorse Nazi Germany.

    Killing X is just a military tactic; provided it is not done out of sadism, it is the ends that are morally decisive, not the means.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Sophistry. At best, murdering kids was accepted as the cost of doing business.
    That isn't the same as deliberately targeting them .

    The difference is pretty obvious.

    Like I said before, Nationalists and Islamist's have the same though process.
 
 
 
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