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Vote of No Confidence in the Government Watch

  • View Poll Results: This House has no confidence in the Government.
    As many are of the opinion, Aye
    22
    44.00%
    On the contrary, No
    25
    50.00%
    Abstain
    3
    6.00%

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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I've heard it's considerably more competitive at post-grad. For one thing there are more applicants. I'd imagine that practically everyone applying will have a first lol
    everyone knows that unis just use masters courses as gravy trains and let loads of people in. My dad got into one without even completing his generations equivalents of gcses. at a russel as well.
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    (Original post by banterboy)
    everyone knows that unis just use masters courses as gravy trains and let loads of people in. My dad got into one without even completing his generations equivalents of gcses. at a russel as well.
    "everyone knows"... proceeds to offer anecdotal (read: worthless) evidence

    lol
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    (Original post by banterboy)
    everyone knows that unis just use masters courses as gravy trains and let loads of people in. My dad got into one without even completing his generations equivalents of gcses. at a russel as well.
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    "everyone knows"... proceeds to offer anecdotal (read: worthless) evidence

    lol
    What TDA said. XD
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    What TDA said. XD
    there might be more applicants but there are more places and, given masters are more specialised, almost certainly more degrees. And the more applicants for graduate studies includes that of PHD AND masters.the conclusion that masters is less competitive than bachelors is irresistible.
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    (Original post by banterboy)
    there might be more applicants but there are more places and, given masters are more specialised, almost certainly more degrees. And the more applicants for graduate studies includes that of PHD AND masters.the conclusion that masters is less competitive than bachelors is irresistible.
    If you ignore the fact that you've got higher quality candidates from around the world then perhaps. And even so this conclusion:

    (Original post by banterboy)
    masters degrees from oxbridge really don't count. You're basically just paying premium for a name.
    remains highly 'resistible'.
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    (Original post by banterboy)
    They're obviously good but if you have a first you can get in, it's not as impressive as getting into a bachelors.
    Not true. People with a first have been rejected. People who did undergrad at Oxbridge have been rejected. In fact, many master's candidates at Oxbridge would already have a master's degree somewhere, sometimes even a doctorate or a professorship. This is not because the content studied is that much more challenging, but the fact that people do see a master's degree from Oxbridge a degree from Oxbridge.

    Also, these people will need to have a first AND to have gotten into their undergrad university in the first place, and most universities outside Oxbridge give out only 10-20% firsts with a lower, in many cases, much lower acceptance rates. So it's not that 30% of everyone can get in, but rather 10-20% * the acceptance rate. For internationals in particular, going to Oxbridge undergrad is really more about money than grades, since the British qualifications are so easy.

    You should also probably know that acceptance rate for graduate entry is only around 2% higher than for undergrad.

    Additionally, many departments offer only graduate studies, with some offering only master's degrees.

    ---

    Anyhow, I'm not even sure why I should educate you on this. TSR doesn't represent the wider world and a high schooler like you have no idea how they see the qualification. No-one ever said "oh but it's not undergrad" when they mentioned Bill Clinton, Tony Abbott, Oscar Wilde; very few know the "MA" at Oxbridge was actually just an undergraduate bachelor's degree, they see that as a higher qualification. No-one outside of high schoolers or perhaps undergraduates in the UK would for some reason see a master's as a less impressive qualification. And even so, no-one on TSR looked down on the former Oxford Vice-Chancellor for getting into Cambridge only for grad school.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    He was talking about going to university and getting a job. Oxbridge have the highest admission requirements and highest graduate outcomes behind Imperial.

    That dig was a complete fail.
    Perhaps, but I presume there's a considerable difference in intelligence between graduates in natural sciences and humanities. I'd say the fact we have no right-wing Oxbridge students here suggests they have much better things to do whereas the left-wing Oxbridge social club are wasting their time writing funny bills and bickering with ‘noxbridge pleb’ because no employer is interested in their specialisation in Marxism–Leninism.
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    (Original post by banterboy)
    everyone knows that unis just use masters courses as gravy trains and let loads of people in. My dad got into one without even completing his generations equivalents of gcses. at a russel as well.
    So we've gone down from talking about Oxbridge to any RG university then? I know KCL, a top RG, had to cancel courses due to insufficient amount of applicants. That doesn't happen at Oxbridge.

    (Original post by banterboy)
    there might be more applicants but there are more places and, given masters are more specialised, almost certainly more degrees. And the more applicants for graduate studies includes that of PHD AND masters.the conclusion that masters is less competitive than bachelors is irresistible.
    Graduate entry is only around 2% "easier" to get in, and acceptance rates are actually lower for taught degrees compared to research degrees, thus by your way of thinking "more competitive".

    But then of course if you look at the rates blindly you can also draw conclusions sticky as "Oxford is less competitive than Oxford Brookes for undergrad" or "it's easier to get into Cambridge for undergrad than to Manchester Metropolitan". You need to look at the quality of people who did get in, and at Oxbridge, many will already have a higher degree. For my small cohort, for example, candidates already held master's from Cambridge, SOAS, HKIED, Edinburgh, UCL etc. One already had a PhD from SOAS. But oh of course who cares if she's got a PhD already? She only went to the lowly Durham for undergrad right?

    And ever if you have to see it reductively, you still need to consider the fact that these applicants have already gotten a bachelor's degree somewhere and so you need to put the two ratio together.

    By your logic, what's so impressive about undergrad at Oxbridge? Getting into Eton is the be-all, end-all.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Perhaps, but I presume there's a considerable difference in intelligence between graduates in natural sciences and humanities. I'd say the fact we have no right-wing Oxbridge students here suggests they have much better things to do whereas the left-wing Oxbridge social club are wasting their time writing funny bills and bickering with ‘noxbridge pleb’ because no employer is interested in their specialisation in Marxism–Leninism.
    I landed my first job as the Top 1-2% earner in the country, and I've received offers before I've even started my course. And I only work around 37 hours a week with around 180 days of holidays. Petty, groundless insults are simply meaningless.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I've heard it's considerably more competitive at post-grad. For one thing there are more applicants. I'd imagine that practically everyone applying will have a first lol
    In fact, many will already have a master's and some will have been working at Oxbridge already.

    Regardless, there's a reason why people go for taught masters even at universities that are not pretigious - it does improve employment opportunity. Whether the benefits outweigh the costs is another matter.
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    Is this a Vote of no confidence in the government or Oxbridge degrees?

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Is this a Vote of no confidence in the government or Oxbridge degrees?

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    Good question.

    LTG, take the argument elsewhere or stop the argument.

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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    I landed my first job as the Top 1-2% earner in the country, and I've received offers before I've even started my course. And I only work around 37 hours a week with around 180 days of holidays. Petty, groundless insults are simply meaningless.
    No, it wasn't my intention to insult you! I was just teasing and making fun of the more radical lefties (*cough*, TDA). Congratulations, what's the job?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    No, it wasn't my intention to insult you! I was just teasing and making fun of the more radical lefties (*cough*, TDA). Congratulations, what's the job?
    Just some ordinary skilled job. I don't think there is another profession with this amount of holidays. My situation also is slightly different since I have a huge amount of freelance experience before graduating, at one point actually earned more than either of my parents did. (Although I suppose it's not a fair comparison since my father has retired.)

    Well my point is and from the beginning has been that there's no point in producing insults like that. We don't know each other enough and most members here are not even at university, ie not in any position to insult people for not going to uni or having a job. And then banterlad felt the need to go personal.

    Do shade the socialist all you want! You have my blessing. His existence is proof that master's graduates are better.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    Good question.

    LTG, take the argument elsewhere or stop the argument.

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    I beg for your forgiveness, leader.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    I beg for your forgiveness, leader.
    Hmmm

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    You're expected to say "given". Have you not watched Elizabeth: The Golden Age?

    Anyway, I've voted with you.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Perhaps, but I presume there's a considerable difference in intelligence between graduates in natural sciences and humanities. I'd say the fact we have no right-wing Oxbridge students here suggests they have much better things to do whereas the left-wing Oxbridge social club are wasting their time writing funny bills and bickering with ‘noxbridge pleb’ because no employer is interested in their specialisation in Marxism–Leninism.
    nah i disagree
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    So we've gone down from talking about Oxbridge to any RG university then? I know KCL, a top RG, had to cancel courses due to insufficient amount of applicants. That doesn't happen at Oxbridge.



    Graduate entry is only around 2% "easier" to get in, and acceptance rates are actually lower for taught degrees compared to research degrees, thus by your way of thinking "more competitive".

    But then of course if you look at the rates blindly you can also draw conclusions sticky as "Oxford is less competitive than Oxford Brookes for undergrad" or "it's easier to get into Cambridge for undergrad than to Manchester Metropolitan". You need to look at the quality of people who did get in, and at Oxbridge, many will already have a higher degree. For my small cohort, for example, candidates already held master's from Cambridge, SOAS, HKIED, Edinburgh, UCL etc. One already had a PhD from SOAS. But oh of course who cares if she's got a PhD already? She only went to the lowly Durham for undergrad right?

    And ever if you have to see it reductively, you still need to consider the fact that these applicants have already gotten a bachelor's degree somewhere and so you need to put the two ratio together.

    By your logic, what's so impressive about undergrad at Oxbridge? Getting into Eton is the be-all, end-all.
    I suppose you're right. Getting into postgrad would be far easier for me though, aside from workload degree for me so far is far easier than gcses for example, because its actually difficult and therefore can keep my attention somewhat.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    You're like a broken record… :rolleyes: Illogical, unreasonable, silly, unjustifiable, and I could continue, but it's not worth it.

    You're already out so you can claim whatever nonsense your ‘special’ brain thinks of but I practically guarantee you that if we switch sides again, your party will eventually find itself in the same situation and then all the arguments will be reversed. You will be faced with a crisis committee that will give you a ‘plausible’ scenario of a holy war against the UK justified by the same development in the 11th century, or an epidemic with ‘plausible’ consequences because that's what happened in the 14th century and the population is getting resistant to antibiotics! All this will be decided without any random input and by a few individuals behind closed doors at best.

    Recall how long it took the previous Labour-led governments to produce a budget or something that at least resembled it, how many mundane bills you released, how brief your leadership was, how you need to keep replacing inactive MPs like socks in order to not lose the seats, how your voting robots just post ‘aye’ or ‘no’, or just vote and say nothing, etc.

    Recall the words of your dear mate in reaction to my MoNC about how people have lives and they can't be expected to put the MHoC above all else, or the multiple failures of the previous government, and it wasn't even the summer exam period, but one when most people sit at home because it's bloody cold outside!

    Should the fact that we got the chance to form a government precisely when most of us are busy because we are actually studying and earning money disqualify us from playing the game? Are we impairing the function of the House in any way? Are we overall inactive?

    How sanctimonious and hypocritical one must be to match your level? Granted, we could have done a lot better but you are either clinically deluded or a shameless invertebrate seeking to exploit the first opportunity at amassing the numbers required for a power grab, and for that you should be ashamed of yourself.
    Yet another unprofessional response from you. You really shame the Government.
 
 
 
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