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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    You misunderstand. To stop an ideology from taking power, you teach against it, because you want the majority of people to be against it, even if it makes a minority of people believe in that ideology - because the majority of people will stop the minority of people

    To entirely vanquish an ideology from the face of the earth, you remove all mentions of it, because you don't want even a minority of people believing that ideology

    Racism no longer has a chance of coming to power, but we still struggle with racist extremists, so I suggest the latter option is the best
    Very 1984-sounding post. Orwell would be proud.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
    The only supremacy in this country is Multiculturalism and Islamism.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    Do you seriously think not teaching something in schools would stop people from knowing about it? WW2, possibly the biggest single event in human history, a war in which most Brits' (great)-grandparents fought? There is no way to purge records of the Nazis from the history books without installing a Nazi-like police state with mass book burnings and huge seizure of private property as well as a revisionist Nazi-style education system. Not to mention Nazi Germany didn't even have any non-European immigrants and was mainly against Jews and Gypsies and 'inferior' whites. So the whole anti-immigrant movement is a completely separate thing to Nazism.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Racism is multifaceted - even Nazism has different branches, e.g. Strasserism, which was hostile to Jews not from an ethnic standpoint, but from an anti-capitalist one
    You've misunderstood. The motivation for discrimination is irrelevant. What's relevant is the outcome. "We're going to discriminate against all Jews because some Jews are capitalists" is really no different to discrimination based on ethnicity alone.

    Islam is inherently sexist and homophobic; just because many Muslims choose to ignore what is written in the Quran doesn't mean the Quran is all nice and pink and fluffy and lovely, just like a racist doesn't necessarily follow the anti-Semitism in Mein Kampf
    That's a simplistic analysis. I'm not talking about cherry-pickers (nothing wrong with that either - at least it's progress), but the groups who do not interpret the text as homophobic and sexist. By treating Islam as a monolith and criticising it as a whole as opposed to criticising the discriminatory and violent interpretations, not only do you undermine the efforts of progressive Muslims, but you also strengthen the extremist beliefs via the backfire effect.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
    Are you just assuming this link to fascism? Plenty of people would echo both sentiments, death to traitors is probably universal, and the call for freedom of ones country could be spouted by anyone not just fascists.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    Always thought you were a bit of an idiot from your posts but this really takes the cake.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records

    Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
    What's hilariously ironic and stupid about this post is that Nazis literally did this exact thing in their own schools.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    Are you just assuming this link to fascism? Plenty of people would echo both sentiments, death to traitors is probably universal, and the call for freedom of ones country could be spouted by anyone not just fascists.
    So much damage control it's unreal.

    I have no skin in this game as I'm not a part of the regressive left who make excuses for the Islamic terrorists that act out the most violent and intolerant sections of the Quran. And neither am I someone who supports the extremely divisive rhetoric of the alt-right.

    So it is certainly quite a view to see the level of hypocrisy and doublethink on display in how both the left and the right assess this tragic event.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

    Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
    He was a victim of mental illness

    He was a victim of poverty

    He was failed by his community

    Unemployment and the economy made him this way
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Unless they are White Muslims it has rarely happened since 9/11. Here are just a couple of sources of many which show the reluctance to call even him a terrorist. Many times he is a "gunman" or a "mass murderer":
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...my-of-one.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nsane-murderer
    Why are you only counting from 9/11? The first article is a view I disagree with but I don't think it's a reluctance to call him a terrorist. The second one was written before his trial, a lot of people thought he was insane


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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    It was not even deliberate it would not make a difference if a cut out 2 words as its still what you implied.

    Also i just read through the article and in no paragraph is his religion even mentioned nor what he said? So how have you come to such a drastic conclusion regarding what he said during the attack and what his religion was. Further he is not even brown he is Black. (Unless i have missed it, i would say you just blatantly lied, however if i missed it then i apoligise)

    And i dont have biases, its just common fact that the mental health card is widely available for whites as compared to Brown or Black.
    Firstly of course it was deliberate, you chose very carefully where to cut of my quote. Secondly it makes a huge difference... it changes it from a statement to a question. Thirdly, given that it was a question, what on earth do you mean "its still what i implied" .. it was a very clear question... there is no "imply" about it

    Maybe, just maybe you could use your initiative and google for more information on the incident ... do i have to spoon feed you EVERY CRUMB of information out there?? Here have another link, once you have done that, read a few more from different sources at different points in time from the day of the attack to his sentencing.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10341234.html
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    There was no hesitation to call Omar Mateen's a terrorist, even before we has more information on his background and mental health. By the looks of it now he was indeed mentally ill but is still viewed as a terrorist because he had a clear political motive, much like Cox's murderer and unlike the man who murdered the grandma. On the other so many insisted that terrorist Anders Breivik was mentally ill even after he was declared sane in a desperate attempt not to label a White European Christian a terrorist.
    We knew within hours of both attacks two things..

    1) Omar Mateen had pledged allegiance to ISIS
    2) We knew very quickly Mair had clearly longstanding mental health issues

    People are going to assume a muslim pledging allegiance to a terrorist organisation during an attack is
    doing so because of his religion and not mental health, because this is what happens time and time again across not just the ME but the west now aswell.

    Both were apparent within literally a couple of hours of the incidents. If Mair is not found to not be suffering from significant mental illness, he will be condemned as a terrorist.

    Next time a jihadi shouts allah ackbar and you see me type "Here we go again, the religion of peace" - If you confront me with some evidence that the person might be a few shillings short of a pound, i will absoloutely have reservations about the killers motives / mind just as i did for this white guy
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    We knew within hours of both attacks two things..

    1) Omar Mateen had pledged allegiance to ISIS
    2) We knew very quickly Mair had clearly longstanding mental health issues
    We also knew very quickly that Mair had shouted support for a white supremacist hate group...

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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    We also knew very quickly that Mair had shouted support for a white supremacist hate group...

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    No we didnt - We had a very dodgy third hand testimony from somebody not at the scene "Britain first" . It was very quickly dismissed by an eye witness as thousands of odious lefties and politicans (Angela Eagle) and many media rapdily deleted tweets with the claim or added the caveat may have said "Put Britain First"
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    No we didnt - We had a very dodgy third hand testimony from somebody not at the scene "Britain first" . It was very quickly dismissed by an eye witness as thousands of odious lefties and politicans (Angela Eagle) and many media rapdily deleted tweets with the claim or added the caveat may have said "Put Britain First"
    Every post of yours defending this neonazi takes an increment off your credibility, one by one.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Every post of yours defending this neonazi takes an increment off your credibility, one by one.
    There is no defending Mr Neonazi.. it is the objective truth.

    You need to attack the content of my posts (The objective reality of what happened) not me as a person
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    We knew within hours of both attacks two things..

    1) Omar Mateen had pledged allegiance to ISIS
    2) We knew very quickly Mair had clearly longstanding mental health issues

    People are going to assume a muslim pledging allegiance to a terrorist organisation during an attack is
    doing so because of his religion and not mental health, because this is what happens time and time again across not just the ME but the west now aswell.

    Both were apparent within literally a couple of hours of the incidents. If Mair is not found to not be suffering from significant mental illness, he will be condemned as a terrorist.

    Next time a jihadi shouts allah ackbar and you see me type "Here we go again, the religion of peace" - If you confront me with some evidence that the person might be a few shillings short of a pound, i will absoloutely have reservations about the killers motives / mind just as i did for this white guy
    oh come on, you are literally the biggest hypocrite in the world

    Omar Mateen 'pledging allegiance to ISIS' is equally as solid as what this guy did, if not less because there are photos going around showing Tommy Mair demonstrating with Britain First
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    You misunderstand. To stop an ideology from taking power, you teach against it, because you want the majority of people to be against it, even if it makes a minority of people believe in that ideology - because the majority of people will stop the minority of people

    To entirely vanquish an ideology from the face of the earth, you remove all mentions of it, because you don't want even a minority of people believing that ideology

    Racism no longer has a chance of coming to power, but we still struggle with racist extremists, so I suggest the latter option is the best
    You seem to suggest that there is no such thing as originality in ideologies, just because you don't tell somebody about the ideology doesn't mean they won't know it

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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    oh come on, you are literally the biggest hypocrite in the world

    Omar Mateen 'pledging allegiance to ISIS' is equally as solid as what this guy did, if not less because there are photos going around showing Tommy Mair demonstrating with Britain First
    No, Omar Mateen pledging allegiance to ISIS was not equally as solid as the third hand reports which where swiftly contradicted by an eyewitness that he shouted "Britain first"

    Why oh great betelgeuse? My small brain cannot comprehend you must be RACIST NEO NAZI... well little A level stress person who is probably a formerly banned poster...

    The FBI and police scanners picked up in the moments after Mateens attack are far more reliable and privy to reality than a bloke saying a guy told him Mair shouted "Britain First!"

    More importantly.. we didn't have a picture of Mair at a Britain First event in the hours after the attack.. did we?

    We did have proof of his history of mental illness however

    DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Why are you only counting from 9/11? The first article is a view I disagree with but I don't think it's a reluctance to call him a terrorist. The second one was written before his trial, a lot of people thought he was insane


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Because that was when we started to have an unspoken criteria that had to be satisfied before labelling someone a terrorist.

    On the other hand when it's a Muslim, he or she is labelled as terrorist immediately. No one debates the use of the label or waits for a trial or psychiatric report.
 
 
 
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