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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    It's true that their rejection comes from choices they made but that also ties into their physical appearance. If they so choose, they could go to the gym. They could wear vaguely decent clothes. If they paired that with choosing to be a nicer and more interesting person they would have much greater success with women.

    I'm gay and I've slept with women. I'm not by any means particularly hot or amazing physically, I'm in okay shape. How is it that I can get with women and they can't? It's because they choose to be disgusting slobs and then aggravate that by becoming total dicks rendering themselves completely repulsive to women.
    I've typically found having a remotely palatable personality works just fine without hitting the gym. Although which is more effort depends on your starting position I suppose.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    If that were true then they wouldn't encourage any actions which lead towards getting laid because you'd already be entitled.
    From what I've read they clearly believe they are morally entitled to get laid, hence their demands for a return to a time when women were legally bound to males.

    There certainly are some websites online that engage in providing basic advice for men about fitness, health, style and dating advice etc. That is not what people like Roosh V and PUA sites do. They come bundled with

    (1) A whole lot of misogynistic conspiracy theories about how the evil, feminist lesbians have taken over society and are running everything behind the scenes, and obstructing the Red Pillers god given right to vagina

    (2) A whole lot of very unhelpful advice providing cheesy (or offensive) pick up lines, tips revolving around lowering womens' self-esteem, etc

    The latter is very far from the kind of GQ/Esquire/Mens Health/Simpleguyskills type of publication or website that seems to me to be diametrically opposed to the embittered, reactionary manosphere
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    I've typically found having a remotely palatable personality works just fine without hitting the gym. Although which is more effort depends on your starting position I suppose.
    Of course that's correct. I only mentioned the gym in the case of my two Exhibits because they are already obese and would need to do some hard work to overcome their physical repulsiveness.

    As you say, being a vaguely decent and interesting person will allow you to get laid because women aren't these "woo magical and remote" creatures. Half the world are women and the vast majority of people are just normal and kind-of decent, so there's always going to be someone at a comparable level of looks and with a compatible personality.

    People like Forney shoot themselves in the foot and make themselves even more unattractive than they already were
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Anyone who uses the term cuck is an idiot and usually a virgin.
    Or into BDSM.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Or into BDSM.
    True, there is cuckold as a term of art in the BDSM world. Of course that's a completely different group of people to the manosphere guys who use it.

    It's the most ludicrous term because the guys who use it are invariably in their teens, aren't married, are often virgins and don't have the foggiest clue about married life and infidelity. It just sounds ridiculous coming out of the mouth of boys who probably don't even have hair on their balls yet

    Oh and in the BDSM world it would be cuckold not cuck, I think
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    True, there is cuckold as a term of art in the BDSM world. Of course that's a completely different group of people to the manosphere guys who use it.

    It's the most ludicrous term because the guys who use it are invariably in their teens, aren't married, are often virgins and don't have the foggiest clue about married life and infidelity. It just sounds ridiculous coming out of the mouth of boys who probably don't even have hair on their balls yet

    Oh and in the BDSM world it would be cuckold not cuck, I think
    I'm not entirely sure I know what cuck means in a manosphere perpspective. I only knew of the term from BDSM yet keep hearing it and being confused because it is being used in highly non-BDSM contexts lol. What is it meant to mean?
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    From what I've read they clearly believe they are morally entitled to get laid, hence their demands for a return to a time when women were legally bound to males.

    There certainly are some websites online that engage in providing basic advice for men about fitness, health, style and dating advice etc. That is not what people like Roosh V and PUA sites do. They come bundled with

    (1) A whole lot of misogynistic conspiracy theories about how the evil, feminist lesbians have taken over society and are running everything behind the scenes, and obstructing the Red Pillers god given right to vagina

    (2) A whole lot of very unhelpful advice providing cheesy (or offensive) pick up lines, tips revolving around lowering womens' self-esteem, etc

    The latter is very far from the kind of GQ/Esquire/Mens Health/Simpleguyskills type of publication or website that seems to me to be diametrically opposed to the embittered, reactionary manosphere
    There's no morality involved. If you exert confidence and never care about rejection, you will 100% get laid.

    Roosh V has personally said in his books, articles and videos that men should lift and be well-read. As well as other PUA sites. You're making an argument from ignorance.

    1) You embellished but if you don't see the influence feminists have had in the last 5-10 years then you're essentially sleepwalking through life.

    2) When you're going for 9s and 10s, they do have a massive ego problem and due to being told they are hot on an hourly basis while their competitors continually get fatter, this has only gotten worse. If you don't think that inflates a girl's self-worth you're delusional.

    Esquire/men's health etc give you safe advice which won't trigger feminists/manginas. In reality though, a lot of people won't agree with the more hands-on tactics because they view it as manipulation, whether it works or not. Using the former as a benchmark is a very bad idea, they're mainly for basics such as grooming/hygiene. Which will only get you so far.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    I'm not entirely sure I know what cuck means in a manosphere perpspective. I only knew of the term from BDSM yet keep hearing it and being confused because it is being used in highly non-BDSM contexts lol. What is it meant to mean?
    A cuckold is a man whose wife has slept with another man. If you sleep with another man's wife you have "cuckolded" him according to old timey thinking.

    Personally I think it's ludicrous to say that a man's masculinity is damaged because his wife cheated on him. I've been in relationships where I've been the cheater and the cheatee. It's not nice on either side, but relationships are complex and it always comes down to those tiny, granular details within the relationship known to the two people in it. It's facile to assert that the cheatee has been unmanned by it.

    And so it sounds even more ludicrous when manosphere boys who are either virgins, have never been married or even in a long-term relationship to talk about what cheating is supposed to signify; they don't have even the most basic understanding of what it means to be part of a couple, and why it sometimes breaks down
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Except you are trying to take the entire thing out of context.

    The context is that red pillers feel that woman and feminism has caused them huge social injustice and is hurting their way of life. My argument is that the areas where they have identified these social injustices are areas where there has historically been social injustice against women and are side issues surrounding the problems.

    The entire discussion is surrounding the large collective and not individual situations, which you are trying to turn it towards.

    In individual situations I fully agree that the rights of any party should be help up and fairness guaranteed, regardless of their race, gender or any other aspect. I would also argue that these situations are improving, but as with all change, it doesn't happen overnight. But that isn't what this discussion is about.
    You got me, I'm trying to avoid being a collectivist, god damn it. And this isn't about whats "hurting" red pillers, it about whats hurting fathers. But good, because you were starting to sound like a child-custody apologist.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Roosh V
    Lives in his mother's basement, and has never been married. For him to be lecturing other men about how to have relationships with women and be an "alpha" is like going to a Catholic priest for advice about sexuality.

    1) You embellished but if you don't see the influence feminists have had in the last 5-10 years then you're essentially sleepwalking through life.
    Of course feminists have had influence. But it's ludicrous and paranoid to assert, as Rooshian/PUAns do that fat, aggressive lesbian feminists who don't shave their armpits control society now. Roosh's idiocy and bitterness can be seen very clearly from the homophobic nonsense he posts about how gay marriage is a conspiracy to turn heterosexuals into slaves (oh and also that gay men are really straight men who just can't get laid). He's clearly mad as a box of frogs.

    2) When you're going for 9s and 10s, they do have a massive ego problem and due to being told they are hot on an hourly basis while their competitors continually get fatter, this has only gotten worse. If you don't think that inflates a girl's self-worth you're delusional.
    Quite a few of my women friends are very attractive women. They're also pretty laid back and down to earth. Not all hot women are arrogant. And you say being told they're hot "inflates their self-worth"; what is wrong with someone having a sense of self-worth and self-esteem? Why is a woman having a sense of self-worth and self-esteem so threatening that she has to be insulted and brought low?

    Good-looking women also have to put up with weirdos and no-hopers constantly coming up to them randomly asking them out, and eventually they put up their armour and snap back a little because they're sick of it.

    Esquire/men's health etc give you safe advice which won't trigger feminists/manginas.
    Ah yes, all of those successful men who are married and have kids are "manginas". And all the losers who can't get laid and spend thousands buying worthless DVDs and books from PUA con artists are the true "alphas". That totally makes sense

    Are you in a long-term relationship with a girl?
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    (Original post by CervixPounder)
    You got me, I'm trying to avoid being a collectivist, god damn it. And this isn't about whats "hurting" red pillers, it about whats hurting fathers. But good, because you were starting to sound like a child-custody apologist.
    I'd argue the red pillers don't care about the father's hurts, it's simply a convenient bandwagon to further their cause about women hurting men's rights. But I do think you make a valid point that just because their cause has been taken up by a ridiculous collective, doesn't make their plights any less real or difficult. The same goes for other injustices they bring into their campaign.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    There's no morality involved. If you exert confidence and never care about rejection, you will 100% get laid.

    Roosh V has personally said in his books, articles and videos that men should lift and be well-read. As well as other PUA sites. You're making an argument from ignorance.

    1) You embellished but if you don't see the influence feminists have had in the last 5-10 years then you're essentially sleepwalking through life.

    2) When you're going for 9s and 10s, they do have a massive ego problem and due to being told they are hot on an hourly basis while their competitors continually get fatter, this has only gotten worse. If you don't think that inflates a girl's self-worth you're delusional.

    Esquire/men's health etc give you safe advice which won't trigger feminists/manginas. In reality though, a lot of people won't agree with the more hands-on tactics because they view it as manipulation, whether it works or not. Using the former as a benchmark is a very bad idea, they're mainly for basics such as grooming/hygiene. Which will only get you so far.
    Feminism has been around for decades and it's done a lot of great things. I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye to it, we're actively supporting it.

    Perhaps you would have an easier time with women if you didn't assign them a rating and then go for the high score? At any rate, I'm unsure why anyone would expect a "5" to date a "10" anyway? People typically date within their own range, be that age, intelligence, looks or otherwise. I think a lot of men have unrealistic expectations of themselves.
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    OK what did he say about gays now


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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Lives in his mother's basement, and has never been married. For him to be lecturing other men about how to have relationships with women and be an "alpha" is like going to a Catholic priest for advice about sexuality.



    Of course feminists have had influence. But it's ludicrous and paranoid to assert, as Rooshian/PUAns do that fat, aggressive lesbian feminists who don't shave their armpits control society now. Roosh's idiocy and bitterness can be seen very clearly from the homophobic nonsense he posts about how gay marriage is a conspiracy to turn heterosexuals into slaves (oh and also that gay men are really straight men who just can't get laid). He's clearly mad as a box of frogs.



    Quite a few of my women friends are very attractive women. They're also pretty laid back and down to earth. Not all hot women are arrogant. And you say being told they're hot "inflates their self-worth"; what is wrong with someone having a sense of self-worth and self-esteem? Why is a woman having a sense of self-worth and self-esteem so threatening that she has to be insulted and brought low?

    Good-looking women also have to put up with weirdos and no-hopers constantly coming up to them randomly asking them out, and eventually they put up their armour and snap back a little because they're sick of it.



    Ah yes, all of those successful men who are married and have kids are "manginas". And all the losers who can't get laid and spend thousands buying worthless DVDs and books from PUA con artists are the true "alphas". That totally makes sense

    Are you in a long-term relationship with a girl?
    Ah now any remnant of a point you had is lost. Roosh lives in Europe, he went to visit his mom where he was stalked by a journalist who then wrote he lives in her basement and eats meatloaf every day. I visit my mom, that doesn't mean I live with her.

    Fat feminists do have a significant pull on society as they're so vocal in universities. Socialist unions and diversity officers etc. They even managed to remove due process for a crime of their choice (rape). I'd say that is substantial pull to have over international policies. I don't agree with his views on homosexuals, but you don't have to look far to find those beliefs, just speak to Christians in the south or a Muslim more or less anywhere.

    It's your anecdotal experience, inconsequential if you have attractive female friends, whether they're 9s or 10s or not.

    That armour is used almost exclusively on the most occurring type of approach they get, which is mostly the apologetic, overly-polite/neurotic nice guy because that is unfortunately most guys. Unpredictability will take down that barrier and girls in the higher tier of hotness are confident enough to handle some off-colour comments and are sometimes intrigued by it.

    You said it, not me.

    Yes I have a partner of 4 years.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Feminism has been around for decades and it's done a lot of great things. I don't think anyone is turning a blind eye to it, we're actively supporting it.

    Perhaps you would have an easier time with women if you didn't assign them a rating and then go for the high score? At any rate, I'm unsure why anyone would expect a "5" to date a "10" anyway? People typically date within their own range, be that age, intelligence, looks or otherwise. I think a lot of men have unrealistic expectations of themselves.
    I'm talking about third-wave feminism. Actual feminism hasn't been relevant for a while now.
    I haven't had a particularly difficult time with women since I was a teenager. Try to keep your assumptions to yourself if you will.
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    eerrrm theres a few weirdos on the fringe of this movement (ie the mgtow stuff) but by in large anti feminism is correct.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    I'm talking about third-wave feminism. Actual feminism hasn't been relevant for a while now.
    I haven't had a particularly difficult time with women since I was a teenager. Try to keep your assumptions to yourself if you will.
    Generally third wave feminism is fine, just like every collective, it has a few idiots on the fringes. There is nothing wrong with working towards equality.

    I was making a general point about dating and matchmaking, it was not specifically addressed at your own personal success. I'm happy for you that you do not struggle. Incidentally, if you don't struggle, why do you need tips from guys like Roosh V?
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Ah now any remnant of a point you had is lost. Roosh lives in Europe
    No, he doesn't. He's an American and he lives in America.

    It's your anecdotal experience
    Yes, exactly the same type of evidence as what I was responding to. Unless you can offer some scientific basis for the paragraph I was responding to? Thought not.

    You said it, not me
    No, it's what PUA's say. They're invariably losers and the reason they go to PUA seminars is because they have no wife, no girlfriend and a total inability to attract one. That's why they're so desperately bitter about men who do have those things, and talk about how those men must be pussy whipped or under a woman's thumb. They despise what they can never happen

    Yes I have a partner of 4 years.
    Oh I believe you It's totally normal for a guy in a long-term relationship to spend a lot of time obsessing about "red pill" stuff and making thousands of posts on the relationship forum
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Oh I believe you It's totally normal for a guy in a long-term relationship to spend a lot of time obsessing about "red pill" stuff and making thousands of posts on the relationship forum
    Tbf, the relationship forum is better than Jeremy Kyle.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Generally third wave feminism is fine, just like every collective, it has a few idiots on the fringes. There is nothing wrong with working towards equality.

    I was making a general point about dating and matchmaking, it was not specifically addressed at your own personal success. I'm happy for you that you do not struggle. Incidentally, if you don't struggle, why do you need tips from guys like Roosh V?
    And since the mainstream (assuming those idiots aren't the mainstream) have made zero effort denouncing the idiots, they go in the same bag. Feminism is not about equality, you're talking about egalitarianism.

    Roosh is a fairly recent addition, I started off with David DeAngelo over ten years ago and it brought some good results and while I didn't struggle so much after that, I always like to improve my game. The same way a musician doesn't quit after he's finished learning his first song. Roosh has some good insights on gaming Eastern European chicks and the cultural quirks that come with them in his Bang series. I've personally traveled to a few of the locations he wrote about and noticed very similar nuances so I do grant a certain degree of trust in his word on that topic.
 
 
 
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