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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Thank you for the quote, but I'm afraid not me.

    I came out for a brexit because I think there are deep problems with the EU as it applied to the UK which are inevitably beyond reform, and that we would be better in the long-term to separate ourselves from a project whose broadly accepted long-term aim the British public would never accept.

    However, I think we shouldn't be under any illusions about the definite short-term and potential longer-term trouble it could cause. Personally I am trying to maintain my sanguine disposition at the moment.
    Point taken. This is how I look at it. We know that EU is corrupt, has no democratic accountability or political legitimacy. We also know that leaving the EU would render us lost in the wilderness. We knew that EU was not going to change as long as Merkel and Hollande were in charge. So they left us with no choice and we left.

    Now that we've left, the real work begins. Of course there will be shocks to the economy and fiscal elements but these are only temporary. With the right PM and his equally abled cabinet ministers, we can secure our borders, root out the fungus, implement a proper immigration system, negotiate our own deals with India, China, Japan etc

    The first step is crucial. We've left Merkel, Junker, Barrosso and co behind and we are going forth to embrace the rest of the wider world.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    I want you to very pay close attention to the following because I don't know how else to simplify things so that you can finally comprehend the substance of the issue at hand.
    With the victorious result achieved by Team Brexit, UK can now do an inventory across the entire jobs sector. Data will then be collated as to which workforce has too many or too few manpower. The government will then have visibility about the gaps they need to plug and UK citizens will have a first opportunity to fill up those vacancies. Once the initial job-matching exercise is completed, data will then be collated again on the remaining available vacancies.
    Nope, you're still dreaming. You've completely ignored/not understood anything I've said.

    1. We're already allowed full control over non-EU immigrants
    2. Despite this, EU immigrants, who we have no control over, make a 30% bigger net contribution and are 10% more likely to be university educated
    3. Why didn't we start by going the less destructive route of controlling non-EU immigration? The immigration that we have control over brings in more unskilled workers, less productive workers. If we're getting WORSE results when we have control over immigration, why on earth do you expect that we'll do any better when we try to control immigration from the EU?

    Non-EU immigration is a bigger problem, it's less beneficial (significantly), and we could deal with it without leaving the EU.

    You've decided we need to leave the EU and deal with EU immigration when we can't even deal with it from outside.

    Why?
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    Point taken. This is how I look at it. We know that EU is corrupt
    No we don't. Brexiteers keep repeating this over, and over, and over. You can't just accuse everyone of being corrupt because it happens to be convenient for you.

    How are they corrupt? Who's corrupt? Who do they serve? What, specifically, have they done?

    Every time I ask this I don't get a response, and it's a bit annoying. The EU are corrupt, they're Nazis, they're whatever Brexiteers find it convenient to call them.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    Point taken. This is how I look at it. We know that EU is corrupt, has no democratic accountability or political legitimacy. We also know that leaving the EU would render us lost in the wilderness. We knew that EU was not going to change as long as Merkel and Hollande were in charge. So they left us with no choice and we left.

    Now that we've left, the real work begins. Of course there will be shocks to the economy and fiscal elements but these are only temporary. With the right PM and his equally abled cabinet ministers, we can secure our borders, root out the fungus, implement a proper immigration system, negotiate our own deals with India, China, Japan etc

    The first step is crucial. We've left Merkel, Junker, Barrosso and co behind and we are going forth to embrace the rest of the wider world.
    I largely agree. Certainly I think that the decisions of successive governments to cede sweeping powers without putting the matter to a vote made this, if not inevitable, at least a very clear risk.

    You are also right that the real work begins now. We need to create an outward-looking market economy, which can and will bring in talent from around the world, freed of the former EU bias, and which continues to stand for democracy and the rule of law.

    I think we could also do with avoiding painting the EU as an evil empire. I think the aim of integration, even as far as it had gone, was fundamentally incompatible with this country's happy co-operation, but the EU has done some good work in spreading stable, Western liberalism eastwards. For that reason I don't know that I'd celebrate too loudly at a Swexit or a Nexit. We'd have to see how it played out.
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    I find it quite sad that many Leave supporters are happy not because of the decision, but because of the fact that the other side lost.

    I'm watching Loyds, RBS, Barclays and many more lose 20% of their equity while people are celebrating a so called 'Independance Day'.
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    That student loan point is bloody ridiculous. I'm an EU student, I've talked to upwards to 100 other EU students and we've all agreed the loan is extremly fair and paying it back won't be a burden to us. I dare you to screenshot this and send it to Oxford about how I don't deserve my place there even if the application process was even harder than for a British person.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    My dear fellow Brexiters, we have done it!
    :banana::thrasher::troll::bban::badger::beer::bl::borat::clap2::elefant::evilbanana:
    June 23rd will now be christened as United Kingdom's Independence Day.

    They laughed at us when we told them that
    • Brexit would emerge victorious
    • Cameron would step down as Prime Minister the morning after
    • Boris would eventually be installed as the PM (although he doesn't stand for anything apart from 'Boris Bikes', has no sense of originality, parrots whatever Nigel Farage says etc)
    Guess who's laughing now?

    I hope all of you reading my post, bears this in mind. A country's sovereignty, security and safety of its citizens is so important.

    Millions of British soldiers have died in several wars over the centuries to protect Queen and country. But Tony Blair let these millions of soldiers died in vain because when he was in power for 10 years or so as the Prime Minister of UK, he allowed virtually everyone to enter the UK
    • without checking if they are holding genuine passports
    • without checking if they have links to terrorist groups
    • without checking if they have criminal records in their home countries
    • without checking if they have genuine educational qualifications or a trade skill to bring to UK
    • without checking if they have HIV/AIDS
    Someone recently asked me why should people wanting to enter into another country, be checked for HIV/AIDS? This is because the government owes a duty to its citizens to protect them from people who may want to infect others with their communicable diseases. This is an extension of a 'social contract theory'.

    With Brexit and with the right PM & ministers, the days are numbered where
    • vile people can simply come into UK, form grooming gangs to sexually molest, rape & even murder innocent girls and then disappear
    • doctors with fake medical certs can perform operations that results in patient deaths and then disappear
    • unskilled workers, migrants etc from all over the world can take a plane to London Heathrow, get council homes, receive monetary benefits and start large families without doing any proper work to the cost of the ever-obliging & obedient British taxpayer
    • people can fly to London, receive medical treatment or go into labour and then return back to their home countries without footing the bill
    • terrorists can walk into UK, go to enclaves, promote ill-will and hatred against other races and religions, orchestrate attacks and then disappear without a trace
    With Brexit and with the right PM & ministers, we must
    1. first confer real powers on Immigration officers stationed at all points of entry into UK, to conduct checks on people wanting to enter UK.
    2. With the exit and entry points secured, the new PM must sanction a joint task force operation between the (much publicized failed & powerless) Border Agency and Police forces, go into every borough and check for illegal immigrants (overstayers without valid visas), people with invalid/fake papers and without work permits, those who're wanted by the police or have jumped bail and round them up to be dealt with accordingly.
    3. Provide extra funding to the General Medical Council (GMC) and empower them to conduct checks on foreign doctors and identify those with dubious qualifications and report them to the Police

      For (2) and (3), detain the identified wrongdoers for 48 hours for initial investigations, allow the police to apply for an extension of remand to assist with further police investigations, accelerate their date with the court, provide them with legal counsel of their choice or otherwise and let the criminal justice system take its course. If they are found guilty, they will serve their sentence and upon release, be immediately deported to their home countries and never allowed to step foot into UK again.
    4. Construct a processing centre to be located overseas which will evaluate and process all asylum claims etc. People need to know that they can't just turn up at the door and be expected to be let in.

      When thousands of illegal immigrants attempted to enter Australia by sea via Indonesia with the aid of people smugglers, PM Toby Abbott politely warned them that if they continued this mode of entry, their boats would be shot down. They thought he was joking. He wasn't. The Australian Navy did shoot at them and these boats stopped entering Australian waters altogether.
    5. Implement an Australian styled points system where people from all over the world with the necessary skills & qualifications, no criminal records, no terrorists links, no HIV/AIDS will be invited to apply for a work permit. But this is only to be done after job openings have been filled up by British citizens first and if there are vacant places, these will then be filled up by foreigners who would have passed the stringent background checks.
    The £350 million we send to EU weekly, can now be used to invest in our NHS, build more hospitals, recruit more police officers, teachers, nurses, junior doctors etc and increase their salaries, give incentives (funding, tax breaks) to British citizens to start their own businesses (entrepreneurship) and so much more because the positive possibilities are endless.

    We can and we will do it because we dare to dream!
    Spoiler:
    Show
    In recent weeks, we have seen several EU students on the Oxbridge and London unis threads in this forum say something to the effect that
    • they couldn't care less about Brexit
    • all they care about is receiving funding and loans so that they can pursue their studies in UK
    • their teachers have told them that UK's government are so slow to effect any change it would take forever to implement them
    So you must be wondering whats wrong with EU students wanting to study in UK? Well, a growing number of these EU students simply take up loans, one after another and then disappear after they've completed their studies without repaying the loans.

    The British government has to write off these debts. It's been reported several times and it's about time UK puts her foot down and prioritise UK students first.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672...g-tuition-fees
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ing-loans.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...pay-debts.html

    You will be pleased to know that I took screenshots of those replies of these selfish EU students and have emailed them to Oxford, Cambridge and the five london universities. Let these admission tutors know what is really happening on the ground. They are smart people and I am certain that in future, they will factor in this reality when deciding who to make offers to.
    I voted remain but thanks for the quote.
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    ...you dared to dream, and we've got the nightmare you envisioned. Happy now?
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    (Original post by Alexion)
    ...you dared to dream, and we've got the nightmare you envisioned. Happy now?
    You're so triggered ahaha
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    as a person who voted remain, I will have to respect all those who voted leave. Everything however seems quite uncertain with many people posting their views all over the place, all I want to know, from one individual to another, are the definite benefits of leaving the EU
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    (Original post by Louisb19)
    I find it quite sad that many Leave supporters are happy not because of the decision, but because of the fact that the other side lost.

    I'm watching Loyds, RBS, Barclays and many more lose 20% of their equity while people are celebrating a so called 'Independance Day'.
    But that's a good thing grrrr, the big bad rich people deserve to lose their money!!!

    People are being really spiteful, but more importantly, it seems that a lot of people actually don't realise that businesses losing billions will affect them. They think that this is a few billionaires losing their personal fortunes and we'll be back to normal tomorrow.
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    (Original post by maryamzahid)
    as a person who voted remain, I will have to respect all those who voted leave. Everything however seems quite uncertain with many people posting their views all over the place, all I want to know, from one individual to another, are the definite benefits of leaving the EU
    There are benefits and drawbacks one thing you must not do is judge it based on today, what happened was expected.

    I see the main benefit of leaving is not being part of a United States of Europe which the EU is going to become.
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    (Original post by Audrey18)
    My dear fellow Brexiters, we have done it!
    :banana::thrasher::troll::bban::badger::beer::bl::borat::clap2::elefant::evilbanana:
    June 23rd will now be christened as United Kingdom's Independence Day.

    They laughed at us when we told them that
    • Brexit would emerge victorious
    • Cameron would step down as Prime Minister the morning after
    • Boris would eventually be installed as the PM (although he doesn't stand for anything apart from 'Boris Bikes', has no sense of originality, parrots whatever Nigel Farage says etc)
    Guess who's laughing now?

    I hope all of you reading my post, bears this in mind. A country's sovereignty, security and safety of its citizens is so important.

    Millions of British soldiers have died in several wars over the centuries to protect Queen and country. But Tony Blair let these millions of soldiers died in vain because when he was in power for 10 years or so as the Prime Minister of UK, he allowed virtually everyone to enter the UK
    • without checking if they are holding genuine passports
    • without checking if they have links to terrorist groups
    • without checking if they have criminal records in their home countries
    • without checking if they have genuine educational qualifications or a trade skill to bring to UK
    • without checking if they have HIV/AIDS
    Someone recently asked me why should people wanting to enter into another country, be checked for HIV/AIDS? This is because the government owes a duty to its citizens to protect them from people who may want to infect others with their communicable diseases. This is an extension of a 'social contract theory'.

    With Brexit and with the right PM & ministers, the days are numbered where
    • vile people can simply come into UK, form grooming gangs to sexually molest, rape & even murder innocent girls and then disappear
    • doctors with fake medical certs can perform operations that results in patient deaths and then disappear
    • unskilled workers, migrants etc from all over the world can take a plane to London Heathrow, get council homes, receive monetary benefits and start large families without doing any proper work to the cost of the ever-obliging & obedient British taxpayer
    • people can fly to London, receive medical treatment or go into labour and then return back to their home countries without footing the bill
    • terrorists can walk into UK, go to enclaves, promote ill-will and hatred against other races and religions, orchestrate attacks and then disappear without a trace
    With Brexit and with the right PM & ministers, we must
    1. first confer real powers on Immigration officers stationed at all points of entry into UK, to conduct checks on people wanting to enter UK.
    2. With the exit and entry points secured, the new PM must sanction a joint task force operation between the (much publicized failed & powerless) Border Agency and Police forces, go into every borough and check for illegal immigrants (overstayers without valid visas), people with invalid/fake papers and without work permits, those who're wanted by the police or have jumped bail and round them up to be dealt with accordingly.
    3. Provide extra funding to the General Medical Council (GMC) and empower them to conduct checks on foreign doctors and identify those with dubious qualifications and report them to the Police

      For (2) and (3), detain the identified wrongdoers for 48 hours for initial investigations, allow the police to apply for an extension of remand to assist with further police investigations, accelerate their date with the court, provide them with legal counsel of their choice or otherwise and let the criminal justice system take its course. If they are found guilty, they will serve their sentence and upon release, be immediately deported to their home countries and never allowed to step foot into UK again.
    4. Construct a processing centre to be located overseas which will evaluate and process all asylum claims etc. People need to know that they can't just turn up at the door and be expected to be let in.

      When thousands of illegal immigrants attempted to enter Australia by sea via Indonesia with the aid of people smugglers, PM Toby Abbott politely warned them that if they continued this mode of entry, their boats would be shot down. They thought he was joking. He wasn't. The Australian Navy did shoot at them and these boats stopped entering Australian waters altogether.
    5. Implement an Australian styled points system where people from all over the world with the necessary skills & qualifications, no criminal records, no terrorists links, no HIV/AIDS will be invited to apply for a work permit. But this is only to be done after job openings have been filled up by British citizens first and if there are vacant places, these will then be filled up by foreigners who would have passed the stringent background checks.
    The £350 million we send to EU weekly, can now be used to invest in our NHS, build more hospitals, recruit more police officers, teachers, nurses, junior doctors etc and increase their salaries, give incentives (funding, tax breaks) to British citizens to start their own businesses (entrepreneurship) and so much more because the positive possibilities are endless.

    We can and we will do it because we dare to dream!
    Spoiler:
    Show
    In recent weeks, we have seen several EU students on the Oxbridge and London unis threads in this forum say something to the effect that
    • they couldn't care less about Brexit
    • all they care about is receiving funding and loans so that they can pursue their studies in UK
    • their teachers have told them that UK's government are so slow to effect any change it would take forever to implement them
    So you must be wondering whats wrong with EU students wanting to study in UK? Well, a growing number of these EU students simply take up loans, one after another and then disappear after they've completed their studies without repaying the loans.

    The British government has to write off these debts. It's been reported several times and it's about time UK puts her foot down and prioritise UK students first.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672...g-tuition-fees
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ing-loans.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...pay-debts.html

    You will be pleased to know that I took screenshots of those replies of these selfish EU students and have emailed them to Oxford, Cambridge and the five london universities. Let these admission tutors know what is really happening on the ground. They are smart people and I am certain that in future, they will factor in this reality when deciding who to make offers to.
    I sincerely hope that Brexit hasn't been the wrong choice, I've seen nothing today to indicate it might have been the right one. My head said Remain but my heart said Exit and I guess I followed my heart where I should have followed my head.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    I sincerely hope that Brexit hasn't been the wrong choice, I've seen nothing today to indicate it might have been the right one. My head said Remain but my heart said Exit and I guess I followed my heart where I should have followed my head.
    Nah you're just seeing the backlash of remainers throwing their rattles out the pram. This country was built through resilience and determination not an EU dictatorship.

    Most the TSR remain noise is coming from pre-uni students who aren't allowed to vote.
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    (Original post by physicsphysics91)
    Nah you're just seeing the backlash of remainers throwing their rattles out the pram. This country was built through resilience and determination not an EU dictatorship.

    Most the TSR remain noise is coming from pre-uni students who aren't allowed to vote.
    Okay, so apart from the economy crashing catastrophically, what positives have we seen today? Have any of the claims of the Brexit camp come true?

    I want a second referendum
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    (Original post by James.Carnell)
    Yeah, they do take our jobs, thats for sure. Years ago in the early 90s you would get jobs in the middle of nowhere that paid well (Factory jobs at night). A job is a job. Then the EU dross came in and employers were able to pay pit bottom wages for them to work. Both employers and the EU immigrants majorly shafted regular British workers.
    That's true people could walk in and out of jobs that's what my parents told me. Before we had this open border with 10 poor EU countries, you could literally walk in and out of jobs. Employers actually were willing to train people.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Okay, so apart from the economy crashing catastrophically, what positives have we seen today? Have any of the claims of the Brexit camp come true?

    I want a second referendum
    Well, lots of scientists are leaving the country.

    We're sick of experts right???????
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Well, lots of scientists are leaving the country.

    We're sick of experts right???????
    I have no problem with experts, the problem was that I didn't encounter any facts from Remainers whilst I was deciding. All I saw was people like David Beckham making comments and no actual facts from either side being made. Had I been exposed to facts from the Remain side, either on here or through some other source, I probably would have voted Remain, I was going to originally anyway
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    That's true people could walk in and out of jobs that's what my parents told me. Before we had this open border with 10 poor EU countries, you could literally walk in and out of jobs. Employers actually were willing to train people.
    Yeah, and you used to be able to buy a bag of chips for 5p. The world changes. There are 6 billion more people in the world than when we joined the EU. That's not the EU's fault, that's just what happens.

    Do you think you can just "walk in and out of jobs" in the US or China? Do you think employers are "actually willing to train people" there? Because no, that's not the case, and it's not the case anywhere in the world and it hasn't been for decades. We don't live in 1970, we live in 2016, and you've just made all our job prospects worse by trying to ignore reality.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Yeah, and you used to be able to buy a bag of chips for 5p. The world changes. There are 6 billion more people in the world than when we joined the EU. That's not the EU's fault, that's just what happens.

    Do you think you can just "walk in and out of jobs" in the US or China? Do you think employers are "actually willing to train people" there? Because no, that's not the case, and it's not the case anywhere in the world and it hasn't been for decades. We don't live in 1970, we live in 2016, and you've just made all our job prospects worse by trying to ignore reality.
    Free movement of people has caused peoples wages to go down especially the working class. Fill the market with unskilled cheap labor willing to work for next to nothing and you've significantly reduced poor peoples ability to get on the housing ladder because No instead we had 10 Bulgarian builders willing to work for next to nothing and sharing a house all cramped together.
    Tbh I'm not surprised people were willing to say stick two fingers at the Establishment.
    It's a democracy and the people won so get over it!
 
 
 
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