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POLL: What is your view of Jaysh Al Fatah (a terrorist group in Syria)? Watch

  • View Poll Results: What should we do about Jaysh Al Fatah?
    Ask Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey to stop sponsoring them
    5
    19.23%
    Designate the group as terrorist, and help efforts fighting it
    8
    30.77%
    Allow our Gulf allies to support them, Assad is worse
    1
    3.85%
    Consider them a terrorist group, but do nothing
    7
    26.92%
    Consider them a 'moderate' rebel group
    5
    19.23%

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    .
    I am independent of these personal disputes, but as an advice: debate and discuss by all means but backbiting IdeasForLife in every second post will not help the issue; you do have grievances, I can understand that, but it reflects badly on you if you start to make it fardh upon yourself to make a comparison to him everytime you wish to comment on the character or manners of another user.
    Also, if you wish for IdeasForLife to be less antagonistic to you, it is advisable that you don't try to offer reconciliation in one hand (e.g. with the Salam thing) and then sideswipe with the other lest it be perceived as two faced.
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    I will continue to not engage until you explicitly withdraw your thinly veiled accusations which you continue to attempt to justify.

    I will be going im to i'tikaaf today so don't expect a response any time soon.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I am independent of these personal disputes, but as an advice: debate and discuss by all means but backbiting IdeasForLife in every second post will not help the issue; you do have grievances, I can understand that, but it reflects badly on you if you start to make it fardh upon yourself to make a comparison to him everytime you wish to comment on the character or manners of another user.
    Also, if you wish for IdeasForLife to be less antagonistic to you, it is advisable that you don't try to offer reconciliation in one hand (e.g. with the Salam thing) and then sideswipe with the other lest it be perceived as two faced.
    I really don't mind.

    He's already tried passing me off as some AQ fan so this is minor. Atleast now people can see through the fake olive branch which he always tries to pass around.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I am independent of these personal disputes, but as an advice: debate and discuss by all means but backbiting IdeasForLife in every second post will not help the issue; you do have grievances, I can understand that, but it reflects badly on you if you start to make it fardh upon yourself to make a comparison to him everytime you wish to comment on the character or manners of another user.
    Brother Zamestaneh,

    On this very thread itself, IdeasforLife, using his other account (and by the way, he has used many accounts to abuse and insult me), called me a Rafidah - a hateful and abusive name used for shia muslims, when used by non-shias. He refused to reply to my salams, insulted me, and used highly secterian and hurtful language towards me.

    It is incorrect to claim i was back-biting, when what i said was based on Haq, - truth- on an open thread, for all to see, and where IdeasForLife could clearly read it himself, on the very thread where he posted his abuse a page or so before.

    Also, if you wish for IdeasForLife to be less antagonistic to you, it is advisable that you don't try to offer reconciliation in one hand (e.g. with the Salam thing) and then sideswipe with the other lest it be perceived as two faced.
    I personally believe even you perhaps know this is a rather fair assesment of the situation.

    Anyone who reads this thread, and all my other interactions with IdeasForLife should know:

    1. I have always greeted him with salamunalaykum, and he has refused to return the greeting.

    2. He has used hurtful and highly secterian language, namely by calling me a 'rafidha' a term used against shia's by non-shia's in a derogretory manner. I have never used the equivelant 'bakri' towards him, thus, i have referred to him as a sunni.

    3. I have spoken to him about unity, about the need to get a long, and he has said i am not his brother, that he never wants unity with me.

    I ask you, and perhaps anyone reading this, and Allah being our witness, to read the posts IdeasforLife has written on this account and the many. many temporary accounts he has made, especially on the I-Soc, to abuse me and attack me, and judge whether it is my behaviour causing his hatred , or a problem of his own making.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I really don't mind.
    You have hurled abuse at me on this thread, using your other account, called me a Rafidha, refused to reply to my salams, used terrible adhab and aklaq towards me, stated i was not your brother, refused to reply to or engage at the topic at hand, and derail the entire thread, only a few pages back, and when i tell brother Ibn Fulaan, on a public, open thread where you performed his abuse, that i prefer to discuss these matters with him, because unlike you, he shows a bit of respect and dignity (mind, i told you this in the first page did i not myself?) i am suddenly being two-faced?



    Atleast now people can see through the fake olive branch which he always tries to pass around.
    I have consistently given you salams, and you have consistently refused to reply to my salams. I have never referred to you as bakri or an offensive term used to describe sunni's. I have always referred to you by what you yourself identify with - sunni. You on the other hand, have referred to me as Rafidha. You have thrown and hurled accusations and insults against me on this account, perhaps also Abu Simba and some of your other accounts.

    I'll allow people to judge whether it is me passing around the olive branch, or whether i have genuinely been patient with you, being met with abuse every time.
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    (Original post by Ibn Fulaan)
    I will continue to not engage until you explicitly withdraw your thinly veiled accusations which you continue to attempt to justify.
    What exactly have i accused you of? As you said, you deem the accusations to be 'thinly veiled' meaning, very subtle indirect accusations, i.e i have never outright accused you , but you have made that conclusion based on your intepretation of what i have said.

    I will be going im to i'tikaaf today so don't expect a response any time soon.
    Itikhaf is more important. I also give you as long as you want to answer, may Allah azwj accept your good deeds.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You have hurled abuse at me on this thread, using your other account, called me a Rafidha, refused to reply to my salams, used terrible adhab and aklaq towards me, stated i was not your brother, refused to reply to or engage at the topic at hand, and derail the entire thread, only a few pages back, and when i tell brother Ibn Fulaan, on a public, open thread where you performed his abuse, that i prefer to discuss these matters with him, because unlike you, he shows a bit of respect and dignity (mind, i told you this in the first page did i not myself?) i am suddenly being two-faced?

    I have consistently given you salams, and you have consistently refused to reply to my salams. I have never referred to you as bakri or an offensive term used to describe sunni's. I have always referred to you by what you yourself identify with - sunni. You on the other hand, have referred to me as Rafidha. You have thrown and hurled accusations and insults against me on this account, perhaps also Abu Simba and some of your other accounts.

    I'll allow people to judge whether it is me passing around the olive branch, or whether i have genuinely been patient with you, being met with abuse every time.
    I didn't say you were two faced. I just said "I don't mind" if you do take swipes at me.

    I'm not so naive to believe someone giving salaam or someone not using certain words is automatically a good person. Your support of Khameini, apologetics for Assads, belittling of certain Sahaba says otherwise. And that is what I judge you by.

    I didn't abuse you on Abu Simba. You automatically take any disagreement as people abusing/insulting you. Here is Abu Simba's posts - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sear...user&u=2588529
    Prove it, you have his posts right there ^

    You play victim far too much.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    If i have offended you in anyway, then ofcourse, i apologise. However, let us not play victims here dear brother, and act as if what you have directly said of me and about me has been anything in comparison to a simple remark i made.

    Eitherway, if the reason why you are not willing to give a reply, but are willing to promote secterianism on these issues across the forums is simply because you want to make the most of the last ten days of Ramadhan, as we all seek to do inshAllah, then i absolutely support you in that, and may Allah azwj accept the good of what you do.
    This post is a pretty good showing of your style

    ---> Acts nice " I apologise brother..."
    ---> Proceeds to heavily imply that other person is lying because they apparently have enough time to promote sectarianism in last 10 days of Ramadan but not reply back to your topic.

    I do not understand how people do not see through this act
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    This post is a pretty good showing of your style

    ---> Acts nice " I apologise brother..."
    ---> Proceeds to heavily imply that other person is lying because they apparently have enough time to promote sectarianism in last 10 days of Ramadan but not reply back to your topic.

    I do not understand how people do not see through this act
    Again, any reasonable, logical assesment of what i wrote will never yield the distorted conclusions and assumptions you have made.

    I apologised to Ibn Fulaan if i had ever said anything that may have caused him offense, because i do not talk or hurl abuses at people, and it is the recognition that as a human being, it is possible i have may, intentionally or unintentionally, said or done something.

    I then , being aware that i really have never said anything offensive (apologising only giving him the benefit of the doubt), told him that i was surprised he seemed to play the victim when i could quote a number of quite offensive statements and accusations made by him towards me/ shia muslims in general.

    Either way, i made clear[to you], even despite that, Ibn Fulaan has definitely changed for the better, and has really improved the manner in which he engages in these discussions.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Brother Zamestaneh,

    On this very thread itself, IdeasforLife, using his other account (and by the way, he has used many accounts to abuse and insult me), called me a Rafidah - a hateful and abusive name used for shia muslims, when used by non-shias. He refused to reply to my salams, insulted me, and used highly secterian and hurtful language towards me.

    It is incorrect to claim i was back-biting, when what i said was based on Haq, - truth- on an open thread, for all to see, and where IdeasForLife could clearly read it himself, on the very thread where he posted his abuse a page or so before.

    I personally believe even you perhaps know this is a rather fair assesment of the situation.

    Anyone who reads this thread, and all my other interactions with IdeasForLife should know:

    1. I have always greeted him with salamunalaykum, and he has refused to return the greeting.

    2. He has used hurtful and highly secterian language, namely by calling me a 'rafidha' a term used against shia's by non-shia's in a derogretory manner. I have never used the equivelant 'bakri' towards him, thus, i have referred to him as a sunni.

    3. I have spoken to him about unity, about the need to get a long, and he has said i am not his brother, that he never wants unity with me.

    I ask you, and perhaps anyone reading this, and Allah being our witness, to read the posts IdeasforLife has written on this account and the many. many temporary accounts he has made, especially on the I-Soc, to abuse me and attack me, and judge whether it is my behaviour causing his hatred , or a problem of his own making.
    Even if what you said is based on Haq, the hadith of the Prophet (SAW) regarding backbiting states that if it was an outright lie, it would be slander, so even if you are saying that you believe it to be true, it makes little difference in this case, I believe.

    I cannot really comment on the Rafidhi thing because tbh one of Ammar Nakshawani's lectures gave me the impression that Shia were increasingly becoming proud of being identified as rejectors of the first 3 caliphs, but I take note of your feelings regarding this.

    I understand your grievances and sometimes seen his posts, and I have advised him when needed; on balance, even if you are trying to be sincere in your approach, certain expressed political beliefs or religious beliefs may sometimes get one's hair up and thus encourage flaired tempers and less patience. These beliefs may or may not individually appear to antagonistic, but when collectively considered it may also create a certain image, whether this image is true or intentional or not doesn't matter.

    I will give an example, and I hope you do not take this as an attack on you:

    - You express the desire for a more diplomatic resolution to Syria. This is not in itself a bad thing necessarily.
    - On many occasions you express extremely critical views of certain Islamic groups in the Syrian conflict (the only people you probably haven't discarded yet are the FSA and the Kurds) even though they haven't actually committed atrocities en mass as one would expect from how you describe them.
    - We are yet to see a criticism of Hezbollah/Iran/Hazara cannon fodder.

    Now regardless of any intentions of possibly valid opinions you might have tried to present, can you not see how a Sunni might be emotionally challenged by your statements (or there lack of with regard to Iran) and instead feel like you are indeed playing the "Iran propaganda machine" role, even if it isn't true? This could thus play as a motive in one calling you a supporter of Bashar and other things even though it appears to be untrue (as you have said yourself quite clearly now that you don't support him).

    From his perspective, it may be that he does not wish to be 'unified' with someone who he disagrees with so much and also perhaps even takes offence and what you believe (and also doesn't care if you are offended by what he believes).

    I can't comment much more on this other than what I have advised to both of you and observed myself, and judgement is with Allah. I pray that Allah guides us all.
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    Going Mental here
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I didn't say you were two faced. I just said "I don't mind" if you do take swipes at me.
    I bear witness, and swear upon Allah (azwj) that you were one of the users i have always sought reconciliation with. I have always sought friendliness and peace with you.

    I'm not so naive to believe someone giving salaam or someone not using certain words is automatically a good person.
    Well, let's look at the whole picture.

    1. On this thread, you referred to me using a name - when used by non- shias towards shias- 'Rafidah' which i have told you i find offensive, and disrespectful and hateful.

    2. You have tactically chosen to always ommit replying to my salams. You know and i know full well the importance placed on replying to salams to a muslim, and the fact you have chosen never to return my greetings speaks of what you think of me.

    3. You have used highly secterian language, on a thread where we are discussing politics, i.e Jaysh al Fatah [this thread], hounded me about the Sahaba, made several threatening statements , as well as certian threats of Takfir (again, of what relevance on a thread discussing Alqaeda?)

    4. Your general Adab, manners, and way you have spoken to me has been hurtful. Even Alifanularab, Zameestaneh, and Ibn Fulaan have atleast conversed with me somewhat in what you could call acceptable. People don't have to take my word for it, read this thread, where you on your other account [ you have since deleted your posts, so people can see them in my quotes], acted in this manner.


    Your support of Khameini, apologetics for Assads, belittling of certain Sahaba says otherwise. And that is what I judge you by.
    I have stated time and time again i do not support Bashar al Assad.

    I have linked you, time and time again to a thread on shiachat itself, promoted by me, produced by an Admin warning those who glorify Assad:

    From shiachat: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/...-bashar-assad/
    "Ive noticed some members actually idolizing and praising Bashar Assad. This is very dangerous for you and your future/akhira."

    I have also never insulted or hurled abuse at any Sahaba here. I am on record, on shia forums and this forum, warning - absolutely warning that while we can discuss, in a manner that is academic, why we disagree with actions commited , the discussion must be civil, and one must never hurl abuse or insults at them.

    Only yesterday i made clear to a minority of shia's i saw hurling abuse that what they were doing was wrong, and our Ulema have forbidden it.



    I didn't abuse you on Abu Simba. You automatically take any disagreement as people abusing/insulting you. Here is Abu Simba's posts - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sear...user&u=2588529
    Prove it, you have his posts right there ^
    I made a post, a very neutral post, on the Imams a.s. You decided to bring up L'anah, a topic you know will cause discord , Fitnah, and really completely derailed what i was trying to say.

    You also, on your other account, when i politely replied to the user who said he was a hanafi, with salam, i am a jafferi, - you told me 'did you know what abu hanifa said about shia's?'. I ignored you, on that other account, and ignored your indirect provocation.

    Such examples from you are numerous.



    You play victim far too much.
    I'm not the one calling others Rafidah, refusing to reply to salams, hurling abuse, accusations, and on a thread unrelated to it, threatening them about their madhab and threats of takfir.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Again, any reasonable, logical assesment of what i wrote will never yield the distorted conclusions and assumptions you have made.

    I apologised to Ibn Fulaan if i had ever said anything that may have caused him offense, because i do not talk or hurl abuses at people, and it is the recognition that as a human being, it is possible i have may, intentionally or unintentionally, said or done something.

    I then , being aware that i really have never said anything offensive (apologising only giving him the benefit of the doubt), told him that i was surprised he seemed to play the victim when i could quote a number of quite offensive statements and accusations made by him towards me/ shia muslims in general.

    Either way, i made clear[to you], even despite that, Ibn Fulaan has definitely changed for the better, and has really improved the manner in which he engages in these discussions.
    It was a reasonable logical assessment. Ibn Fulaan saw the insult himself.

    Anyone who seems to disagree with you gets instantly labelled as 1) Sectarian 2) Illogical 3) "oh he once used to be moderate..." etc

    Little sly indirect remarks are more your style Tawheed. Whereas I am more direct normally and thats what you moan about.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    x
    I first , want to praise you about the Adhab you have shown in discussions with me. Your last post - which i am looking forward to reply to - was the only post on this topic where you actually addressed the OP.

    However, you have elaborated as to why IdeasforLife acts as he does. I am not denying or affirming or even trying to address this.

    What i am trying to explain is, whatever his reasons, there are a few things vital to understand before one claims i was backbiting about him:

    1. This is an open forum, on an open thread, where Ideasforlife is posting. It is in public view.
    2. IdeasforLife, on one of his other temporary accounts - Arevaci called me a Rafidha, a term and name i have made clear to him is offensive to me, when used by him. I feel it is rather unfair you have tried to justify the use of him using the word, and not taken into consideration that the word itself is offensive in the manner and way he uses it. Godforbid racism, but the N word has been used to refer to a black man. If i , then used it to a black man and said 'well that's what it means' , he will automatically be offended, because the N word has been used in racist circles as a derogretory word against black people.
    3. Only a few pages ago, he, on his other account, after calling me a rafidhi, also hurled all sorts of accusations, not replying to any of my salams,
    4. I made it clear to him, a few pages back, that i know he is not Ibn Fulaan, as Ibn Fulaan does not act in this way.


    Thus, if you consider the behaviour he has shown, the fact this is indeed a public thread, on a public forum, where he is posting on himself, in direct view of him, on a thread he, only a few pages back, has insulted and abused me, to tell Ibn Fulaan openly on the same thread that i prefer discussing with him, because he does not resort to insults, can not be considered backbiting.

    The very fact i was the one called out , and not the one who did all of the abuse, is something i feel is unfair on your part.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Anyone who seems to disagree with you gets instantly labelled as 1) Sectarian
    You and i both know this isn't the truth. You have done more than merely disagree with me.

    You have used highly offensive, secterian language espoused by the groups in the OP, namely the term 'Rafidha'. No matter how many times i have told you using that word on me personally is offensive, you have not once since apologised. You refused to reply to my salams, and turned a thread that is political, to do with jaysh al fatah, about shia theology, and began to make threatening remarks about leaving the fold of Islam and Takfir.

    This was only a drop in the sea of secterian language you have used.



    2) Illogical 3) "oh he once used to be moderate..." etc
    You used to be moderate. That is personally why it has always, always been my wish that even if theologically we disagree, we get along, and keep mercy, brotherhood and peace between us.

    Sadly, you have evolved to the level where you do not even reply to salams.

    And i'm being sincere with you. I swear by Allah you were one of the brothers i especially wanted to get along with.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    You and i both know this isn't the truth. You have done more than merely disagree with me.

    You have used highly offensive, secterian language espoused by the groups in the OP, namely the term 'Rafidha'. No matter how many times i have told you using that word on me personally is offensive, you have not once since apologised. You refused to reply to my salams, and turned a thread that is political, to do with jaysh al fatah, about shia theology, and began to make threatening remarks about leaving the fold of Islam and Takfir.

    This was only a drop in the sea of secterian language you have used. I



    You used to be moderate. That is personally why it has always, always been my wish that even if theologically we disagree, we get along, and keep mercy, brotherhood and peace between us.

    Sadly, you have evolved to the level where you do not even reply to salams.

    And i'm being sincere with you. I swear by Allah you were one of the brothers i specially wanted to get along with.
    Well that's a lie because I believe it to be the truth. I have done more but it doesn't make my claim about your past assessments false.

    There are quotes from Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Malik and Imam Ahmad Hanbal, where they used similar words. So with regards to words like rafidi rawafid etc... I have done nothing wrong. These are not words only used by Syrian rebels.

    I am a 'moderate' Muslim. Nothing has changed in almost a year with regards to my views about you. If I ever held back before it was because of HAnwar. You should thank her for anything previously. As I don't care about her views anymore, I don't have to hold back. I say what I think.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I bear witness, and swear upon Allah (azwj) that you were one of the users i have always sought reconciliation with. I have always sought friendliness and peace with you.

    Well, let's look at the whole picture.

    1. On this thread, you referred to me using a name - when used by non- shias towards shias- 'Rafidah' which i have told you i find offensive, and disrespectful and hateful.

    2. You have tactically chosen to always ommit replying to my salams. You know and i know full well the importance placed on replying to salams to a muslim, and the fact you have chosen never to return my greetings speaks of what you think of me.

    3. You have used highly secterian language, on a thread where we are discussing politics, i.e Jaysh al Fatah [this thread], hounded me about the Sahaba, made several threatening statements , as well as certian threats of Takfir (again, of what relevance on a thread discussing Alqaeda?)

    4. Your general Adab, manners, and way you have spoken to me has been hurtful. Even Alifanularab, Zameestaneh, and Ibn Fulaan have atleast conversed with me somewhat in what you could call acceptable. People don't have to take my word for it, read this thread, where you on your other account [ you have since deleted your posts, so people can see them in my quotes], acted in this manner.

    I have stated time and time again i do not support Bashar al Assad.

    I have linked you, time and time again to a thread on shiachat itself, promoted by me, produced by an Admin warning those who glorify Assad:

    From shiachat: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/...-bashar-assad/
    "Ive noticed some members actually idolizing and praising Bashar Assad. This is very dangerous for you and your future/akhira."

    I have also never insulted or hurled abuse at any Sahaba here. I am on record, on shia forums and this forum, warning - absolutely warning that while we can discuss, in a manner that is academic, why we disagree with actions commited , the discussion must be civil, and one must never hurl abuse or insults at them.

    Only yesterday i made clear to a minority of shia's i saw hurling abuse that what they were doing was wrong, and our Ulema have forbidden it.

    I made a post, a very neutral post, on the Imams a.s. You decided to bring up L'anah, a topic you know will cause discord , Fitnah, and really completely derailed what i was trying to say.

    You also, on your other account, when i politely replied to the user who said he was a hanafi, with salam, i am a jafferi, - you told me 'did you know what abu hanifa said about shia's?'. I ignored you, on that other account, and ignored your indirect provocation.

    Such examples from you are numerous.

    I'm not the one calling others Rafidah, refusing to reply to salams, hurling abuse, accusations, and on a thread unrelated to it, threatening them about their madhab and threats of takfir.
    My manners aren't the best. I openly acknowledge that. I have little patience left for you.

    If you ever answer my questions about cursing properly, we can then maybe think about wa'alaykumasalaams.

    Perhaps if you say the same about Khameini now? But you won't.

    You're not the one calling others Rafidi etc... You're the one trying to simplify the topic and trying to trip members into saying they support AQ, when they don't. They could get jail for what you're trying to lure them into. For that reason (and past reasons) you won't get respect from me. Of course I'll oppose you.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I am a 'moderate' Muslim. Nothing has changed in almost a year with regards to my views about you. If I ever held back before it was because of HAnwar. You should thank her for anything previously. As I don't care about her views anymore, I don't have to hold back. I say what I think.
    My respect for her was already high, but it has gone even higher. Truly, what she has done behind my back to help avoid discord and arguments on the I-soc is from the pureness of the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w

    In her respect, i will desist from continuing this quarrel with you.

    I am also offering you my hand Ideas. You and i , let byegones be byegones. Any disagreements let's keep them academic. Reply to my salams, and refer to me a shia - not a rafidah, and let's both - even me- move on from this.

    What do you say?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    My respect for her was already high, but it has gone even higher. Truly, what she has done behind my back to help avoid discord and arguments on the I-soc is from the pureness of the Sunnah of Muhammed s.a.w

    In her respect, i will desist from continuing this quarrel with you.

    I am also offering you my hand Ideas. You and i , let byegones be byegones. Any disagreements let's keep them academic. Reply to my salams, and refer to me a shia - not a rafidah, and let's both - even me- move on from this.

    What do you say?
    I don't think love for the people who curse/dislike/hate sahaba would be part of the sunnah. But if you say so

    Denounce Khameini, answer the questions about praying for Umar (ra) and Abu Bakr (ra) to go to hell and then I could possibly give it think.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I don't think love for the people who curse sahaba would be part of the sunnah. But if you say so
    I don't curse , and i have spoken out against those who insult and hurl abuse. It is against my madhab. I take the views of .ay fadlullah, ay.khamanei and ay. sistani.


    Denounce Khameini,
    Denounce Ay . Khamanei for taking the same view as me, that the greater evil in this conflict are Daesh, Al Nusra (alqaed affiliate), Ahrar Asham (founded by al suri, who worked with alqaeda, osama bin laden, and had close ties with alqaeda so much so the leader posted a eulogy when he died), and the takfiri groups, promoted by gulf states, and western governments to destabalize syria for their own selfish geopolitical goals, and not in the interests of the syrian people?

    I want the syrian people to decide who they want in power, their government, in democratic , free and fair elections, where they choose, under international observation.

    You are never going to get that with these groups here. The moment Assad falls, these groups will take the helm, and i consider Assad an evil, but the prospect of alqaeda as well as their associates taking charge an even greater evil.


    answer the questions about praying for Umar (ra) and Abu Bakr (ra) to go to hell and then I could possibly give it think.
    It is forbidden to abuse the shaikhan, or hurl insults at them/ abuse. I have never done the above nor have you ever seen me do it.
 
 
 
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