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Looking more and more likely that the vote will be ignored. How would Brexit react? Watch

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    You are deluded if you think we arent leaving th EU, anyone in the leave campaign will be happy to trigger artical 50
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    Most of those calling for a second referendum are middle class kids who are throwing their toys out of the pram as they are always used to getting their own way. There would be little point in a second referendum, what if Remain won - then Leave would be calling for a third referendum and so on. Are we supposed to do best of three? - A ridiculous notion. There would be widespread civil unrest possibly worse during and after a second referendum risking plunging this country into chaos - one MP has already been killed over this referendum (we can safely assume I think) do we really want to risk more of that. To me the vote cast been cast and we must respect that, Remainers would be saying the same had they won by the same margin. That and it was about 1.4 Million votes difference which is a lot never mind the percentage. Sure there was enough remain votes for the new PM to bear their position/views in mind but that's all it should count for.
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    if it would stop everyone throwing hissy fits then i'd be happy
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    I think in maybe a couple of months time everyone will calm down and get back to normal
    how true

    as the French say, "tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse, et tout se remplace"

    (everything passes, everything makes us weary, everything breaks down, and everything is replaced)
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    Shots will probably be fired
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    No it won't. People have given their lives for liberty and democracy, there are so many people that feel strongly enough. Also, you're forgetting the further moves to centralization of the EU, and the fact that other referendum demand will now spring up everywhere.
    If they try and override it, all we simply arrange for all leavers to come down to London and shut the city down. We'll sit on the roads, whatever is needed.
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    The Lib Dems are already calling for the referendum to be ignored.

    If that occurs I predict mass civil disorder.
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    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    Most of those calling for a second referendum are middle class kids who are throwing their toys out of the pram as they are always used to getting their own way. There would be little point in a second referendum, what if Remain won - then Leave would be calling for a third referendum and so on. Are we supposed to do best of three? - A ridiculous notion. There would be widespread civil unrest possibly worse during and after a second referendum risking plunging this country into chaos - one MP has already been killed over this referendum (we can safely assume I think) do we really want to risk more of that. To me the vote cast been cast and we must respect that, Remainers would be saying the same had they won by the same margin. That and it was about 1.4 Million votes difference which is a lot never mind the percentage. Sure there was enough remain votes for the new PM to bear their position/views in mind but that's all it should count for.
    It's utter nonsense to say it didn't count. Spoilt, petulant nonsense from the privileged against the poor. As you say, the logical conclusion if remain won would be leave asking for another again. Who the hell do they think they are, they shouldn't have had one in the first place if they didn't want this, but then UKIP would just rise and rise. The second one would end up having to be fixed to win. The genie is out of the bottle now, more and more Europeans for whom this elitist project oppresses will cause uprising. Imagine if second referendums happened across Europe, all the leavers would just unite and be such a force.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    The Lib Dems are already calling for the referendum to be ignored.

    If that occurs I predict mass civil disorder.
    I suppose they'll have to take the 'Democrat' out of the name.
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    http://heatst.com/uk/11-countries-ge...-with-britain/

    FFS remainers, look at this, the world is out there waiting to trade, India awaits, this is opportunity, do not keep us entangled in this protectionist, miserable bureaucracy. It bears no relation culturally or historically to what made us great and look at the countries outside it, even tiny Iceland with it's deal with China, and our hands are tied. It's incredibly frustrating. To stay in would be a tragedy for the long term. Utter tragedy.
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    There's an easy out. Negotiate trade deals and state that it wouldn't be fair to trigger Article 50 until there is a coherent plan for Leave. Confirm the deals IF they were to Leave, publicise the official plan and put the two to a vote. Stay with current arrangements or accept the new deal and Leave the EU. The revote would come back Remain.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    it wouldn't be fair to trigger Article 50 until there is a coherent plan for Leave. Confirm the deals IF they were to Leave, publicise the official plan and put the two to a vote. Stay with current arrangements or accept the new deal and Leave the EU.
    this

    in two years' time (or so), people will be able to make a choice between two clear alternatives

    however, in order to start negotiations and reach a deal, article 50 has to be triggered

    in fact, the new agreement would have then to be ratified by the EU Council, the European Parliament and the UK

    at that moment, a new referendum would seem quite appropriate
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    There's an easy out. Negotiate trade deals and state that it wouldn't be fair to trigger Article 50 until there is a coherent plan for Leave. Confirm the deals IF they were to Leave, publicise the official plan and put the two to a vote. Stay with current arrangements or accept the new deal and Leave the EU. The revote would come back Remain.
    Deals outside the EU works, but if the EU follows through on their threats to play hard to get until Article 50 is invoked it doesn't work, there is also the time limit of electoral pressure. However, given the wide range of countries that are wishing to engage in trade deals we could reasonably hold things off for a while, say that we have deals with countries x, y, and z lined up and use that to calm the markets a bit when Article 50 is invoked.
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    I just can't believe rational people would want to hand their country over to a dictatorship, where there was no effective democracy, where they would never again be able to have any vote or say in the things that affect their lives. Remainers surely didn't want to live in a dictator megastate, did they? I can only assume they didn't realise that was where we were headed.

    Who would want to live in a regime where people could be arrested and locked away without trial or jury, or in a regime that abolishes the long established basic right of Habeus Corpus????
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    (Original post by Delilah234)
    Maybe not for you but honestly if you're dead set on ending a relationship, I'm very sure that you will research your exit plans well ahead of the actual exit from the relationship.

    In this case, given the general sentiment and how tight the pre-referendum polls showed the race to be, are you trying to tell me the government had no idea that a Brexit was a possibility? That might explain why they didn't have a team already waiting in the wings to step in after the results had been announced. Now I really don't believe that because it shows that the current government are not forward thinkers, which isn't something we want at all. Is it?

    We are not conforming to Junckers' demands, the government would simply be carrying out the democratic will of its citizens. The EU knows that we are at a disadvantage and it is in their advantage to push negotiations, at the end of the day the UK does not have as much bargaining power as it would like to think.
    And given leave and remain were both leading in the polls in the run up to the vote, with the end result being fairly tight, have you not considered that maybe we weren't dead set on leaving and it was a pendulum that could swing either way?

    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    I just can't believe rational people would want to hand their country over to a dictatorship, where there was no effective democracy, where they would never again be able to have any vote or say in the things that affect their lives. Remainers surely didn't want to live in a dictator megastate, did they? I can only assume they didn't realise that was where we were headed.Who would want to live in a regime where people could be arrested and locked away without trial or jury, or in a regime that abolishes the long established basic right of Habeus Corpus????
    Anything at all to suggest this is even remotely likely to happen?
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Anything at all to suggest this is even remotely likely to happen?
    Are you serious? This already happened when the Lisbon Treaty was signed and ratified years ago. Your governments pushed it through by stealth without your or my will or consent.

    From www.eutruth.org.uk

    Dictatorship
    Page 18 Article 9: Defines the Executive of the EU: three unelected politiburos on the soviet model. The only chance we have of representation is in the European Council, which starts off as being one Prime Minister per country (but can be chosen by EU politicians). But they (eg David Cameron) are the very same EU Bilderbergers who illegally forced us into the EU against our wishes in the first place: they are already bought and paid for by the EU.

    Below the politiburos is the European Court of Justice, the one that ruled in case EUCJ 274/99 that it is illegal to criticise the EU. When EU Budget Director Marta Andreasen was fired for revealing that 95% of the EU’s expenditure could not be accounted for, this court ruled she should be denied compensation because she told the truth. This is the court that interprets and enforces these treaties.

    At the bottom is the powerless sham EU Parliament, the only vote we will get. It is the Soviet system, but with a more tyrannical constitution, 2,000 controlling pages long instead of the Soviet 80 pages.

    The end of the Lib-Dem, Labour and Conservative Parties

    Page 16 Article 8A-4. “Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union.”

    What does this mean? At the EU’s Party Financing Conference in Madrid in June 1999, parties at the European level were defined as parties with voters in more than 10 countries. The Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem Parties have voters in only one country, Britain.

    Under this clause, British parties do not contribute and do not express the will of the EU’s citizens. That empowers the EU to abolish our Lib Lab Con, the very parties whose leaderships have worked so hard to illegally force us into the EU.


    We may not oppose the EU

    Page 13, 3A-3, end: “The Member States shall facilitate the achievement of the Union's tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives." In English:

    “We must comply with the treaties, and we may not oppose the EU. “

    We are forced to obey the treaties

    Page 14. 3A-4. “Under the principle of proportionality, the content and form of Union action shall not exceed what is necessary to achieve the objectives of the Treaties.”

    In English, “the EU will not use more force than is necessary to compel us to comply with the treaties.” See page 13, 3A-3: The other EU states are to force us to comply too.

    These are just two of scores of clauses that demolished our sovereignty and Britain.

    Britain was illegally abolished on 1st January 2009.

    The treaties are written to conceal their intent. For example, they “take Primacy” over our written British Constitution and laws. A nation cannot have two constitutions, so this means the EU’s constitutional treaties replace the British Constitution. In other words, they abolish our Constitution (which is written, every word of it), but they are careful not to say that.

    These six treaties are to be enforced by EU judges, paid by the EU, whose remit is to enforce them with the policy of “Ever closer union”. So every ruling is biased in advance towards the EU, and against Britain.


    From http://www.euro-sceptic.org/BetterOffOut.htm#CatA

    B.How bad is it now?

    13.The emerging EU megastate already has its own parliament, executive, supreme court, currency, flag and anthem. It is planning its own written constitution, army, foreign policy, police force, legal and tax systems

    14.The EU is the only institution on the planet which pretends to be a democracy but whose bureaucracy, the Commission, has an almost exclusive right to propose legislation,[5] and to conduct international affairs

    15.The Treaty takes precedence over Acts of Parliament. So if our Government (the executive) is outvoted or agrees EU legislation in Brussels, our Parliament must put it into British law, on pain of unlimited fines in the Luxembourg Court

    16.The number of EU laws in force has risen from 1,947 in 1973 to more than 25,000 today. Only a handful of these were even discussed in the UK Parliament.

    17.The Treaty decrees that once Brussels has acquired a power from the nation states, that power is never given back (the 'acquis communautaire', or, in plain English, the ratchet).

    18.The Treaty does not contain an exit clause, and can only be amended by unanimity among all the member states.[9] It is therefore deceptive to suggest that we can 're-negotiate the Treaty' unless we are prepared to leave the EU if our 'partners' don't agree the changes we need (which they won't).

    21.The Common Agricultural Policy is an environmental disaster, costing British taxpayers around £6 billion p.a. and hitting every person in the UK with some £250 p.a. in extra food costs.[11] The votes to change it cannot be mustered in Brussels. With the money the CAP costs us we could look after our farmers and countryside, with billions to spare for other things.

    22.The Common Fisheries Policy is even worse. Before we joined it we owned 80% of the fish in EU waters, whereas now we are allowed to land only some 25% of the permitted EU catch. The policy is hopeless because the bureaucrats who designed it thought they could conserve fish by limiting the quantities landed in port. They did not realize that most fish are dead when they come up in the nets. So that is why millions of tonnes of fish are thrown back dead into the sea each year in the name of EU conservation ('discards'). The votes to change this policy cannot be mustered in Brussels. International experience (Canada, Namibia, Norway) shows that our stocks could be conserved if we controlled them, satisfied our own industry and market, and then leased any surplus to other countries.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yes. It has no choice (and Merkel has said so), and we certainly should not disadvantage ourselves by striking before the iron is even in the fire.
    In the mean time, the EU will be telling businesses in the UK they should move to the EU to reduce uncertainty.

    The longer the UK delays A50, the more businesses believe its a sign of weakness and the more likely they are to jump ship.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Are you serious? This already happened when the Lisbon Treaty was signed and ratified years ago. Your governments pushed it through by stealth without your or my will or consent.
    Would you care to point to the section of the Lisbon treaty that suspends the right to habeas corpus or trial by jury? And I suppose I should also ask why the right to habeas corpus and trial by jury still remains if it was forced on us back then...


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    (Original post by TheNoseDiver)
    Civil War
    (Original post by James.Carnell)
    Or at least massive conflict. I don't think Parliament will have the balls to actually enforce a Brexit, and Bremain will win. It will be an utter farce for democracy. Sure, they say that Brexit lied (as they did). However, overturning a democratic vote (as it was stated as repeatedly in parliament) would green light the Brexit side having a vicious response and undermining a Bremain at every opportunity.

    There would be wide scale divide in the UK and once the first deaths occur then there will be no turning back because the conflict would involve blood.
    ah you guys finally caught up to the bit I was saying when if leave lost there was going to be a massive civil war they still have the weapons so it will happen before long maybe 5 years at the very most
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Would you care to point to the section of the Lisbon treaty that suspends the right to habeas corpus or trial by jury? And I suppose I should also ask why the right to habeas corpus and trial by jury still remains if it was forced on us back then...
    Apologies I was over-reacting. It is where the EU wanted to go but for the moment we have managed to stay away. For how long that would remain possible if we stayed in the EU is debateable.

    The EU uses the system of Corpus Juris" which is definitely worth Googling for more into. Some useful links:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-the-law.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...m-8931215.html

    Also worth Googling "European Public Prosecutor"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...lic_Prosecutor
 
 
 
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