Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Best Labour leader? watch

  • View Poll Results: Who would make the best Labour leader now?
    Jeremy Corbyn
    479
    46.10%
    Tom Watson
    43
    4.14%
    Angela Eagle
    62
    5.97%
    Hilary Benn
    90
    8.66%
    Yvette Cooper
    51
    4.91%
    Andy Burnham
    76
    7.31%
    Dan Jarvis
    38
    3.66%
    Someone else
    200
    19.25%

    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Corbyn needs to go regardless of your politics.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    I think Corbyn's a decent and honest bloke but he needs to accept the reality that his position is untenable. When your heartlands vote en-masse against your official position you can't consider yourself a credible leader anymore
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I think Corbyn's a decent and honest bloke but he needs to accept the reality that his position is untenable. When your heartlands vote en-masse against your official position you can't consider yourself a credible leader anymore
    I am by no means defending Corbyn here, but not a single contender for the leadership would have prevented the destruction of their northern and midlands vote last Thursday, and they won't be able to win it back if elected.

    Labour needs to understand that working class people don't care about socialism, or a 'new brand of politics,' the vote on Thursday shows a strong anti-EU/immigration/establishment sentiment. Which of the contenders would you say correlate these views? - None of them do. Most working class people currently feel sold out by Labour and as if the party does not listen to them - probably because it's too busy pandering to the wet, middle class, student hard-left.

    Labour need a total rethink of what they are or face electoral obliteration, and this rethink is something that none of the potential candidates offer.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BenC1997)
    I am by no means defending Corbyn here, but not a single contender for the leadership would have prevented the destruction of their northern and midlands vote last Thursday, and they won't be able to win it back if elected.

    Labour needs to understand that working class people don't care about socialism, or a 'new brand of politics,' the vote on Thursday shows a strong anti-EU/immigration/establishment sentiment. Which of the contenders would you say correlate these views? - None of them do. Most working class people currently feel sold out by Labour and as if the party does not listen to them - probably because it's too busy pandering to the wet, middle class, student hard-left.

    Labour need a total rethink of what they are or face electoral obliteration, and this rethink is something that none of the potential candidates offer.
    I think you vastly overestimate how much thought people put into who they vote for

    Tony Blair governed for a decade on a platform of immigration and multiculturalism including two landslide victories. Even after the 2003 invasion of Iraq he comfortably won a third majority in 2005.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BenC1997)
    I am by no means defending Corbyn here, but not a single contender for the leadership would have prevented the destruction of their northern and midlands vote last Thursday, and they won't be able to win it back if elected.

    Labour needs to understand that working class people don't care about socialism, or a 'new brand of politics,' the vote on Thursday shows a strong anti-EU/immigration/establishment sentiment. Which of the contenders would you say correlate these views? - None of them do. Most working class people currently feel sold out by Labour and as if the party does not listen to them - probably because it's too busy pandering to the wet, middle class, student hard-left.

    Labour need a total rethink of what they are or face electoral obliteration, and this rethink is something that none of the potential candidates offer.
    I don't think it's 'Labour' as such that needs the rethink, it's Corbyn and his supporters. Many of the latter were recent entryists into the party anyway. The problem is that whilst they may feel pleased that Trotsky has taken over the core of the worker's party, the reality in Britain is hardly 1917 in Petersburg - what's needed is a progressive alliance, not endless splitism into tinier and tinier pieces of purer and purer Marxist-Leninism.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fenice)
    I think you vastly overestimate how much thought people put into who they vote for

    Tony Blair governed for a decade on a platform of immigration and multiculturalism including two landslide victories. Even after the 2003 invasion of Iraq he comfortably won a third majority in 2005.
    Yes and he only went then because of the Brownites. One of the idiotic things about that faction was that they pretended to themselves that they were more left than Blair, yet in reality, Brown was every bit as Blairite as Blair and sometimes even more so.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BasicMistake)
    Corbyn needs to go regardless of your politics.
    If that was addressed to me, I agree he needs to go, but the issue is that much of his base still doesn't - as shown for example in this poll.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    God I hope the membership votes him back in so we see the party split.

    #ToriesForCorbyn2 ?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    God I hope the membership votes him back in so we see the party split.

    #ToriesForCorbyn2 ?
    Gutter politics
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fenice)
    I think you vastly overestimate how much thought people put into who they vote for

    Tony Blair governed for a decade on a platform of immigration and multiculturalism including two landslide victories. Even after the 2003 invasion of Iraq he comfortably won a third majority in 2005.
    His majority in 2005 was a greatly redued one and the Conservative Partywas still in disarray and backed the Iraq war, they were awful opposition.

    Even if people put no thought into their vote and voted out purely on immigration and/or racism, that instantly puts them at odds with mainstream Labour, how is Labour going to win that vote back is the question they now face, more of the same is not the answer. None of the potential candidates will propose the necessary change to win these people back.

    Your last point actually supports my point about the working class feeling sold out - Labour's dominance came from an ability to charm the middle class rather than via riding a wave of working class consciousness, thus they felt less need to pander to the working class. Rightly or wrongly, old labour voters feel that the immigration that soared post-2004 when many eastern European countries joined the EU has negatively affected their lives. Labour have so far failed to dispell this belief.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    If that was addressed to me, I agree he needs to go, but the issue is that much of his base still doesn't - as shown for example in this poll.
    It wasn't directed at you personally but rather at any (would be) Labour supporters. I think the reason why his supporters are so reluctant to see Corbyn resign is that they believe, quite reasonably, that whoever replaces him will not be as left-wing as he is. There are no outstanding socialist candidates currently, Tom Watson is probably the best option but I personally think that he will not garner the support of the Labour MPs any better than Corbyn can.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I don't think it's 'Labour' as such that needs the rethink, it's Corbyn and his supporters. Many of the latter were recent entryists into the party anyway. The problem is that whilst they may feel pleased that Trotsky has taken over the core of the worker's party, the reality in Britain is hardly 1917 in Petersburg - what's needed is a progressive alliance, not endless splitism into tinier and tinier pieces of purer and purer Marxist-Leninism.
    Yes, i completely agree with you. Unfortunately the labour membership is comprised largely of the middle class student hard-left, who have nothing in common with the people whose votes labour need to win, thus will continue to elect Corbyn-esque figures who will continue to make them unelectable. Of course when this is brought to their attention they simply look down their noses at those who disagree.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fenice)
    Gutter politics
    Winning politics!
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Winning politics!
    #LabsforIDS
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fenice)
    #LabsforIDS
    I believe the Tory election rules are a little less silly, so not quite so open to exploitation, and also Tory MPs wouldn't nominate a candidate who couldn't ever win an election to ensure a 'wide debate', but yeah I'd take IDS. I'd rather have the others but IDS is a serious, somewhat competent man.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Angela eagle comes across as a faorly principled woman and i enjoyed watching her debate about the EU.

    Labour simply do not stand a chance under Corbyn, he can't keep his own party together let alone a country.
    • Community Assistant
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by F0X)
    Well now Dan Jarvis is out of the running
    He said no to running in 2015, has he said no to doing so in 2016?
    • Community Assistant
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I believe the Tory election rules are a little less silly, so not quite so open to exploitation,

    .. IDS is a serious, somewhat competent man.
    Depends on what you mean by silly. You certainly get someone that MPs can live with, but only giving the members two choices has lost them the best candidate - in terms of someone who could win an election - at least once.

    And totally out of the running because of his previous time as leader. They got rid of him quickly then, and no-one's going to believe they want him now.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by unprinted)
    And totally out of the running because of his previous time as leader. They got rid of him quickly then, and no-one's going to believe they want him now.
    Oh yes, but I was responding to a suggestion that the Tory party could be sabotaged by secret labourites backing IDS. He's clearly not quite a Corbyn-level disaster.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.