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    (Original post by Rorschach II)

    Because being trans-gender isn't the mental disorder; gender dysphoria is.
    Someone can be trans-gender without having gender dysphoria.
    In essence someone can be trans-gender without the distress.
    Ergo being trans-gender isn't where the mental illness lies.
    I believe like my legs aren't really mine (body dissociative disorder), so I want to cut them off. But that isn't the mental disorder; it's the perfectly rational distress I get from it that's the mental disorder!
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    (Original post by AngryJellyfish)
    No, because you're a woman attracted to men.



    Yes.
    A man-to-women trans liking men is clearly gay. Because he liked men before he decided to be a female. So he was gay. And you can't just decide to change your sexuality - I thought it was beyond control and it's not choice...

    Ah you messed up. For something to not be a choice, there must be no conscious action you can take to change it. For example, your birth place is not a choice, because there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your actual place of birth. Whereas by your logic, sexuality is a choice, since you can consciously change from gay to straight by deciding to change gender. Make up your mind people.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    So to become straight, all one needs to do is transition to the opposite gender? Doesn't that negate the fact you are still technically a male attracted to the same sex?
    Transgender people identify as being the opposite gender to the one they were assigned at birth. So in this example, you'd have always considered yourself female.

    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    A man-to-women trans liking men is clearly gay. Because he liked men before he decided to be a female. So he was gay. And you can't just decide to change your sexuality - I thought it was beyond control and it's not choice...

    Ah you messed up. For something to not be a choice, there must be no conscious action you can take to change it. For example, your birth place is not a choice, because there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your actual place of birth. Whereas by your logic, sexuality is a choice, since you can consciously change from gay to straight by deciding to change gender. Make up your mind people.
    You assume that transgender people suddenly 'decide' to switch gender. This is not the case.
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    What I'm confused about is why A (asexual) gets left out
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    I believe like my legs aren't really mine (body dissociative disorder), so I want to cut them off. But that isn't the mental disorder; it's the perfectly rational distress I get from it that's the mental disorder!
    You've misinterpreted my post, maybe because of my wording, I don't know.

    "trans-gender" is an adjective ascribed to someone whose "sense of self"/gender doesn't align with their sex.
    Someone is trans-gender, as opposed to someone having gender dysphoria.

    Let's put it like this:
    Alex is born with XY chromosomes; Alex is male;
    Alex has distress / confusion;
    Alex finally attributes it to his "sense of self"/his gender not aligning to his sex;
    Alex has gender dysphoria;
    Alex decides to get, and gets hormone therapy or gender-reassignment surgery at whatever age;
    Alex is transsexual;
    If successful, the distress no longer exists, therefore Alex no longer has gender dysphoria;
    Alex is still trans-gender (and now transsexual after the "transition");
    Alex is no longer mentally ill/no longer has a mental disorder;

    This means gender dysphoria and being trans-gender are separate, are distinct; there is a distinction.
    Someone can be trans-gender without having gender dysphoria.
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    (Original post by AngryJellyfish)
    Transgender people identify as being the opposite gender to the one they were assigned at birth. So in this example, you'd have always considered yourself female.



    You assume that transgender people suddenly 'decide' to switch gender. This is not the case.
    You aren't "assigned" a sex at birth; you are what you are (there are these things called chromosomes, you see), and homosexuality is the attraction to the same sex.

    Also many transgender people don't identify as the opposite gender (or even strongly feel this way) until later in life.

    If a person has a penis, and he likes penis, he's homosexual, regardless of whether or not he goes by 'she' later on.
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    (Original post by Rorschach II)
    You've misinterpreted my post, maybe because of my wording, I don't know.

    "trans-gender" is an adjective ascribed to someone whose "sense of self"/gender doesn't align with their sex.
    Someone is trans-gender, as opposed to someone having gender dysphoria.

    Let's put it like this:
    Alex is born with XY chromosomes; Alex is male;
    Alex has distress / confusion;
    Alex finally attributes it to his "sense of self"/his gender not aligning to his sex;
    Alex has gender dysphoria;
    Alex decides to get, and gets hormone therapy or gender-reassignment surgery at whatever age;
    Alex is transsexual;
    If successful, the distress no longer exists, therefore Alex no longer has gender dysphoria;
    Alex is still trans-gender (and now transsexual after the "transition");
    Alex is no longer mentally ill/no longer has a mental disorder;

    This means gender dysphoria and being trans-gender are separate, are distinct; there is a distinction.
    Someone can be trans-gender without having gender dysphoria.
    Oh, well as long as I don't feel stress from my sense of bodily dissociation, I don't have anything wrong with me! No disorder there! Im perfectly healthy in being convinced the legs I was born with don't really belong there; it's just my sense if self not aligning with my perfectly healthy body. Nothing wrong going on upstairs, all fine and fixed when I cut them off and the conflict is over.

    I have multiple personalities too, all fighting for control of my body. But that's just a conflict of my sense of self being the problem. If I let the other person in my head take control on weekends, and he agrees, the conflict is over, my distress eases, and there's nothing wrong with me. No mental disorder, perfectly healthy upstairs.
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    Cos that's just the alphabet get used to it
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Oh, well as long as I don't feel stress from my sense of bodily dissociation, I don't have anything wrong with me! No disorder there! Im perfectly healthy in being convinced the legs I was born with don't really belong there; it's just my sense if self not aligning with my perfectly healthy body. Nothing wrong going on upstairs, all fine and fixed when I cut them off and the conflict is over.

    I have multiple personalities too, all fighting for control of my body. But that's just a conflict of my sense of self being the problem. If I let the other person in my head take control on weekends, and he agrees, the conflict is over, my distress eases, and there's nothing wrong with me. No mental disorder, perfectly healthy upstairs.
    I'm only using my own personalised definition of mental disorder/illness, and I stay true to it regardless, because I abhor hypocrisy.
    What constitutes a mental illness has to be consistent be it about the subject of paedophilia, about the subject of being trans-gender, about the subject of homosexuality etc.

    A stipulation can't be "it has to be statistically abnormal", or homosexuality would be included in such.
    Being trans-gender without the gender dysphoria doesn't negatively affect day to day life by itself (not meaning discrimination here though.)

    I think a mental illness is something that negatively affects the day to day life of a person, not by means of discrimination or prejudice or laws or something.

    Mayhaps I need to adapt my definition.

    Okay, I'll adapt it to something that negatively affects the day to day lives of the person who has it, or something that significantly affects the people who interact with this individual because of an abnormality in the mind (on a logical basis, although that is subjective, so nothing like offense of religious beliefs.)

    (Hard to articulate that. )
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    (Original post by Rorschach II)
    I'm only using my own personalised definition of mental disorder/illness, and I stay true to it regardless, because I abhor hypocrisy.
    What constitutes a mental illness has to be consistent be it about the subject of paedophilia, about the subject of being trans-gender, about the subject of homosexuality etc.

    A stipulation can't be "it has to be statistically abnormal", or homosexuality would be included in such.
    Being trans-gender without the gender dysphoria doesn't negatively affect day to day life by itself (not meaning discrimination here though.)

    I think a mental illness is something that negatively affects the day to day life of a person, not by means of discrimination or prejudice or laws or something.

    Mayhaps I need to adapt my definition.

    Okay, I'll adapt it to something that negatively affects the day to day lives of the person who has it, or something that significantly affects the people who interact with this individual because of an abnormality in the mind (on a logical basis, although that is subjective, so nothing like offense of religious beliefs.)

    (Hard to articulate that. )
    Sorry, but I honestly find this whole concept of having your own definition of mental illness pretty ridiculous. What purpose does it serve? All it does is perhaps to legitimise using the term in a derogatory fashion to refer to someone who displays charachteristics you disapprove of when they're not actually mentally ill, or deny help or treatment to those who are because your definition says it isn't "proper" mental illness. Frankly, the people making the definitions will have studied mental illness estensively and are in a much better place than you or I to define it, or indeed to challenge defnitions if they're no longer supported by the evidence. Insisting that a mental illness is only what fits in the boxes you draw up is just not helpful to those it actually affects.
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    (Original post by unprinted)
    Let's say that you're a trans person.

    If you're going from male to female, and have a male partner, some people are going to say that you're homosexual.
    If you're going from male to female, and have a female partner, some people are going to say that you're lesbian.
    If you're going from male to female, and have both, people are going to say that you're bisexual.
    If you're going from female to male, and have a male partner, some people are going to say that you're homosexual.
    If you're going from female to male, and have a female partner, some people are going to say that you're lesbian.
    If you're going from female to male, and have both, people are going to say that you're bisexual.
    Get it?

    From the 1980s, there has also been a huge overlap between the bisexual and trans communities, because - in contrast to the lesbian and gay ones - the former hasn't much cared about what gender someone identifies as.
    To clarify what I said is that I can get that not everyone is straight but to claim you're the opposite sex/gender since birth or born in the wrong body seems like a big leap from I'm not straight to I'm X trapped in Y. Its seems more like a mental state of mind than sexual orientation.
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    (Original post by PrettyGirlx)
    It's LGBT, because it refers to sexual orientation. T stands for transgenders, where gender identity and often sexual orientation play a major role so it fits in perfectly with LGB, many transgenders are gay or well changing their gender to the opposite as a gay man could sometimes depict woman like manners without having to change his gender for example.
    But it's not fair to group them all together, because not all T's are LGB.

    You can see how LGB refers to sexual orientation, but T refers to identity. Whilst T may imply LGB, it's not guaranteed. Why, then, is a term used to refer to identity grouped together with terms for sexual orientation?
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    But it's not fair to group them all together, because not all T's are LGB.

    You can see how LGB refers to sexual orientation, but T refers to identity. Whilst T may imply LGB, it's not guaranteed. Why, then, is a term used to refer to identity grouped together with terms for sexual orientation?
    As a lot of people have already explained:

    (Original post by epage)
    Trans identities, and those who are LGB experience similar discrimination, and as such, both groups have had close relations for many years. The 'T' is a part of the LGBT acronym because the trans community is small, and as such, the LGB group, and those who are trans, are better off in safe spaces together. This does not mean that there aren't transphobic LGB people, or that there aren't homophobic trans people.
    (Original post by quinn f)
    they're grouped because LGB and T are all queer identities seen as "other" and the LGBTQ+ community needs to stand together, whether about sexuality or gender. the trans community really needs the gay community to help raise trans voices.
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Speaking as a transgender person myself here, it's actually been a matter of much debate in our community. Some think it doesn't help because it leads to transgenderism being viewing incorrectly as a sexuality, and trans issues are often secondary to LGB ones in major group. The general consensus, however, is that our issues get more exposure and our campaigning for equality is more effective working with LGB people through LGBT organisations than on our own. A good example is Stonewall. Until recently, they were just a LGB group - but most people didn't realise that, assumed that they were LGBT and our issues were completely sidelined. For instance, where schools are mandated to cover the topic of LGBT equality in citizenship classes, they often just played a Stonewall video that only featured LGB people and issues and took it as 'job done'. They've now changed, after a campaign by many trans people and groups, to become a LGBT charity and represent us too, and I do feel it's helped and will continue to do so going forward - especially as we are still miles behind LGB people in terms of legal equality in Britain.

    Basically, whether it should have been this way or not the conception of LGBT as a group is too deeply embedded and the trans community too small for us to have any impact except through the wider LGBT movement.
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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    To clarify what I said is that I can get that not everyone is straight but to claim you're the opposite sex/gender since birth or born in the wrong body seems like a big leap from I'm not straight to I'm X trapped in Y. Its seems more like a mental state of mind than sexual orientation.
    Gender identity is more complicated than you imagine.
 
 
 
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