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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Not all of them. Blame the Muslims who did it.

    However, there are certain regressive Islamic ideas which need to be openly debated.
    I would not blame Muslims itself but the ideology of Islam. Violence, genocide and pedopfilia is codified in the teaching of the criminal Muhamed. Waffa Sultan, a prominent american psychiatrist and former Muslim said a person needs to be mentaly ill to literary believe in Islam. That is why we need to firstly ban muslim immigration and secondly deradicalise thoose muslims who already lived before the ban. That will be done by enforing collective guit, like they did on Germans after WW2 and teach them in schools all the flaws from the Quran and nastiness various muslims comiteed in history
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    It's obviously not fair to blame Muslims. Blame the terrorists.


    Oh, and blame George Bush and Tony Blair for ordering the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place and giving rise to the insurgency that brought ISIS about.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)


    Oh, and blame George Bush and Tony Blair for ordering the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place and giving rise to the insurgency that brought ISIS about.
    ISIS were formed out of saddams batthist armies and supported syrian islamist factions. before ISIS were al quaeda, before them Maktab al-Khidamat and so on and so forth
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    (Original post by slaven)
    I would not blame Muslims itself but the ideology of Islam. Violence, genocide and pedopfilia is codified in the teaching of the criminal Muhamed. Waffa Sultan, a prominent american psychiatrist and former Muslim said a person needs to be mentaly ill to literary believe in Islam. That is why we need to firstly ban muslim immigration and secondly deradicalise thoose muslims who already lived before the ban. That will be done by enforing collective guit, like they did on Germans after WW2 and teach them in schools all the flaws from the Quran and nastiness various muslims comiteed in history
    I would upvote this if I could. However, some people will probably say "eeeevil trump" to this.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    No. Here's an idea: blame the people who did it.
    (Original post by Kutta)
    Nope..

    Is it fair to blame "white" people for slavery?
    is it fair to blame Christians for the KKK?
    is it fair to blame Christians for Breivik?
    Is it fair to blame Christians for the Lords Resistance Army?
    Is it fair to blame Christians for the Westboro Baptist Church?
    Is it fair to blame Sikhs for Flight 182?
    Is it fair to blame Jews for the actions of the state of Israel?
    is it fair to blame Indians/Hindus for the actions of Hindu extremists in India?
    Is it fair to blame Buddhists for Wirathu (aka the Burmese Bin Laden)?
    is it fair to blame white people for the destructing of ancient civilisations such the Indians?
    is it fair to blame Christians for Hitler and Nazi's?
    is it fair to blame the Chinese for Chairman Mao?
    is it fair to blame normal everyday Americans for the atomic bomb attacks which still effects peoples lives today?
    is it fair to blame us Brits for the drone strikes which kill innocent people?
    Is it fair to blame Muslims for ISIS?

    you get the picture....
    truth has been spoken
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I would upvote this if I could. However, some people will probably say "eeeevil trump" to this.
    Well, this would be a dump step from them. banning Sunnis Arabs is common sence. It is risky to settle them.
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    No, blaming all Muslims for terror attacks would be silly, but it is fair to blame the ideology. No matter how many times apologists will go on about how "Islam is a religion of Peace" or "Islam is perfect" the fact is, Islam is far from perfect, and the atrocities being committed by ISIS and other terror organisations are justifiable in Islam. That's the problem with organised religion, it's open to interpretation.

    (Original post by slaven)
    I would not blame Muslims itself but the ideology of Islam. Violence, genocide and pedopfilia is codified in the teaching of the criminal Muhamed. Waffa Sultan, a prominent american psychiatrist and former Muslim said a person needs to be mentaly ill to literary believe in Islam. That is why we need to firstly ban muslim immigration and secondly deradicalise thoose muslims who already lived before the ban. That will be done by enforing collective guit, like they did on Germans after WW2 and teach them in schools all the flaws from the Quran and nastiness various muslims comiteed in history
    I don't see how this'd help matters. It'll only make Muslims feel more isolation, victimisation and ultimately disdain for the West, is that really what you want? The best solution would be to just do a better job of integrating them and exposing them to other cultures and views.
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    islam is not a religion of peace - where are you getting this insane idea? this whole idea that islam is a fundamentally peaceful or tolerant (the essence of peace) religion is a rectally-extracted nonsense fantasy of the highest order. just because a religion is adhered to by people mostly of a different race to you, it is not racist to call out the ******** of that religion
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    ISIS were formed out of saddams batthist armies and supported syrian islamist factions. before ISIS were al quaeda, before them Maktab al-Khidamat and so on and so forth
    ISIS and al-Qaeda are both radical anti-western militant groups. Al-Qaeda was formed to wage insurgency against US troops in Iraq, and the security vacuum left when the US withdrew from Iraq in 2011 was exploited by ISIS - all a consequence of the actions of Bush and Blair. Or is blaming two white men too close to home for comfort?
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    (Original post by Kutta)
    Nope..


    Is it fair to blame "white" people for slavery?
    is it fair to blame Christians for the KKK?
    is it fair to blame Christians for Breivik?
    Is it fair to blame Christians for the Lords Resistance Army?
    Is it fair to blame Christians for the Westboro Baptist Church?
    Is it fair to blame Sikhs for Flight 182?
    Is it fair to blame Jews for the actions of the state of Israel?
    is it fair to blame Indians/Hindus for the actions of Hindu extremists in India?
    Is it fair to blame Buddhists for Wirathu (aka the Burmese Bin Laden)?
    is it fair to blame white people for the destructing of ancient civilisations such the Indians?
    is it fair to blame Christians for Hitler and Nazi's?
    is it fair to blame the Chinese for Chairman Mao?
    is it fair to blame normal everyday Americans for the atomic bomb attacks which still effects peoples lives today?
    is it fair to blame us Brits for the drone strikes which kill innocent people?
    Is it fair to blame Muslims for ISIS?


    you get the picture....


    interestingly much of what you posted could indeed be referenced in part to the spread of islam - ie slavery in africa, wars of colonisation, terrorism, destruction of more advanced ancient societies, poor standards of education and womens rights etc
    however much of your examples cant be tied to a specific ideology that repeats in different circumstance globally if - whereas islamic terrorism tends to occur regularly and over a widspread geographical area, crossing boundaries of ethnicity and race but with same result and under same influce of islamist dogma. it is also by far more common than any other issue you raise.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    ISIS and al-Qaeda are both radical anti-western militant groups. Al-Qaeda was formed to wage insurgency against US troops in Iraq, and the security vacuum left when the US withdrew from Iraq in 2011 was exploited by ISIS - all a consequence of the actions of Bush and Blair. Or is blaming two white men too close to home for comfort?
    No it wasn't, Al-Qaeda was formed in 1988 in Afghanistan, assumingly against the Soviets.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    No it wasn't, Al-Qaeda was formed in 1988 in Afghanistan, assumingly against the Soviets.
    I'm talking about Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I'm talking about Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
    Honestly, you have to admit, it probably would have sprung up regardless if Saddam had gone. For all of Saddam's faults, he cracked down on Islamist terrorists very well.
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    Not at all. I think I have a fairly unusual position as an Ex-Muslim because I honestly don't believe that Islam is SOLELY responsible for terror attacks, nor do I think it's the primary motivation for terrorists. I think if most people cast aside their disparaging beliefs about Islam and are completely honest, they'll find that Islam is a convincing and well-marketed afterthought. In reality, even if Islam was abandoned, we would still have small groups attempting to seize control in a power vacuum that we created. Blaming Islam is convenient but anger and betrayal are human emotions that supersede religion; the underlying, primary issue in my opinion, is foreign affairs. The sooner we admit that we're complicit in creating the chaos - instead of distancing ourselves from the 'savages' - the sooner we begin to enact change in our relations with these countries and rebuild broken relationships. We need to stop seeing it as the technologically and socially advanced West v.s. the barbaric Arabs.
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    (Original post by Saeedpoppa)



    I don't see how this'd help matters. It'll only make Muslims feel more isolation, victimisation and ultimately disdain for the West, is that really what you want? The best solution would be to just do a better job of integrating them and exposing them to other cultures and views.
    If you by "Muslims" mean thoose in the Middle East. Than they are not the concerned of the West. Let them butcher each other. Just bann their refugees from coming. If you talking about thoose living in the West than western values will be necesary to be forced on them to prevent further terrorist attack. also to cure them from their mental illness . Otherwise they are free to live in Saudi Arabia.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Oh, and blame George Bush and Tony Blair for ordering the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place and giving rise to the insurgency that brought ISIS about.
    Do you believe Iraq would be better if Saddam was still in charge?
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Do you believe Iraq would be better if Saddam was still in charge?
    Yes.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Yes.
    How so? Considering he was in the process of committing genocide, I find it hard to believe the end would have been much better. Much like with Assad, there would have been a similar uprising, possibly another intifada like happened in 1991.
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    I think it's fair to blame the Muslim groups that committed the action. I also think Islam is a deeply flawed religion that encourages these kind of groups to rise up and discourages Muslims from speaking out against jihad.

    I don't believe Islam is a religion of peace, but I do believe that some individual Muslims as human beings might subscribe to a pacifist philosophy and/or be willing to go against the part of their holy book that talks about jihad. I just wish it were possible to screen out Muslims who believe in jihad and radical narratives more easily.

    After studying some of what goes on in Muslim countries with women's rights and such, I see them as victims of their own religion. It's very sad to think about. I wish there were some way to get all Islamic countries to either adopt a much more humane interpretation of Islam, or to quit Islam altogether. In practical terms, I don't see the value systems as compatible with our own.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    How so? Considering he was in the process of committing genocide, I find it hard to believe the end would have been much better. Much like with Assad, there would have been a similar uprising, possibly another intifada like happened in 1991.
    I know right,people seem to forget in the initial days of the invasion the Iraqi people welcomed the invasion and saw the coalition forces as liberators.Not to mention people forgot Saddam use of poison gas against the Kurds.
 
 
 
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