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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    It wouldn't be difficult in this day and age with the technology we now have to catch and convict somebody of a crime to a 100% certainty. CCTV footage or DNA results, for examples.

    IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?

    I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!

    With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!

    I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
    1. It is impossible to be 100% certain
    2. We should be moving towards a rehab criminal justice system rather than a punitive one


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    1. It is impossible to be 100% certain
    2. We should be moving towards a rehab criminal justice system rather than a punitive one


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    1. It is possible. Said person caught on CCTV.. can be seen picking item up.. leaving store with no payment.. thus theft and 100% evident..
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    1. It is possible. Said person caught on CCTV.. can be seen picking item up.. leaving store with no payment.. thus theft and 100% evident..
    How can you be sure they weren't coerced? How can you be sure they weren't sleepwalking? You can't even be 100% sure that they didn't do it because they were possessed by a demonic spirit


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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    It wouldn't be difficult in this day and age with the technology we now have to catch and convict somebody of a crime to a 100% certainty. CCTV footage or DNA results, for examples.

    IF a person is 100% convicted of a crime and there was no chance of this person being framed or mis-identified and depending on the crime, why shouldn't punishment be much more severe?

    I do understand that it isn't always possible to convict somebody to 100% certainty.. i.e rape cases where even though dna testing is accurate and semen found, it still might have been consensual sex at the time! This poses a huge problem of course!

    With people caught committing crimes on CCTV and it is 100% conclusive evidence.. and a conviction is made, then these criminals should be punished very severely. Armed robbery or even a mugging on the street are both life changing events for the victims.. and therefor the criminals should have their hands cut off or worse! It would deter others from doing it I am sure!!

    I know it's not easy but I feel a LOT more could be done to deter criminals.. and it makes me wonder why it isn't?
    (a) because it's still almost invariably very difficult to be at all certain of guilt, let alone identifying precisely what law(s) someone is guilty of breaking. Have you ever looked at a court case?

    (b) we've grown past the silly stage where the justice system's primary role is state-sponsored revenge and are beginning to focus on the things that actually matter: preventing future suffering and keeping people safe. We've still got a long way to go, but we've made a lot of progress.

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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    How can you be sure they weren't coerced? How can you be sure they weren't sleepwalking? You can't even be 100% sure that they didn't do it because they were possessed by a demonic spirit


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    No excuses.. if they did it, they did it!
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    (Original post by Implication)
    (a) because it's still almost invariably very difficult to be at all certain of guilt, let alone identifying precisely what law(s) someone is guilty of breaking. Have you ever looked at a court case?

    (b) we've grown past the silly stage where the justice system's primary role is state-sponsored revenge and are beginning to focus on the things that actually matter: preventing future suffering and keeping people safe. We've still got a long way to go, but we've made a lot of progress.

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    (a) Theft.. that is the law being broken when said person picks item up and leaves the shop without paying.

    (b) We are going backwards.. i.e The 70 year old frail old man being beaten black and blue for simply telling a person to stop urinating on his wall.. and plenty more cases just as mindless!!
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    (a) Theft.. that is the law being broken when said person picks item up and leaves the shop without paying.
    I don't think you've thought about your position very carefully. How would you actually prove that? Intent especially.


    (b) We are going backwards.. i.e The 70 year old frail old man being beaten black and blue for simply telling a person to stop urinating on his wall.. and plenty more cases just as mindless!!
    What? The point is that the justice system is not there to enact revenge for you. It should prevent re-offending and protect the public, not punish people just to make them suffer.

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    (Original post by Implication)
    I don't think you've thought about your position very carefully. How would you actually prove that? Intent especially.

    What? The point is that the justice system is not there to enact revenge for you. It should prevent re-offending and protect the public, not punish people just to make them suffer.

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    Like I said originally.. CCTV is conclusive enough, i.e body language and you can actually see it there on camera.

    The justice system is a joke! It needs HUGE change.. we are worse than we ever have been!
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    (b) We are going backwards.. i.e The 70 year old frail old man being beaten black and blue for simply telling a person to stop urinating on his wall.. and plenty more cases just as mindless!!

    You can't be serious. Do you honestly, genuinely believe this is something that's only started to happen recently?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    You can't be serious. Do you honestly, genuinely believe this is something that's only started to happen recently?
    Yes within the last 10 years.. when a lot of the younger generation lost all respect for other people due to lack of punishment.... go figure!
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    Yes within the last 10 years.. when a lot of the younger generation lost all respect for other people due to lack of punishment.... go figure!
    Were you living on a different planet 10 years ago?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Were you living on a different planet 10 years ago?
    Nope... and it was never heard of! We had something called respect back then..
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    No excuses.. if they did it, they did it!
    What an incredibly childish thing to say. If I put a gun to your head and say steal a chocolate bar or I'm going to shoot you and then kill your entire family in your eyes you should go to jail if you steal the chocolate bar.

    In law defences exist because sometimes in unreasonable to find someone liable for their actions.


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    Because the criminal justice system isnt solely about revenge.. It has to draw a fine line between many competing objectives for instance; deterrance/punishment/rehabilitation/public safety and so on..
    Not to mention reasons like many ridiculous laws on the books, victimless crimes [for instance drug possession], circumstances [a drug addict stealing for their habit is interesting as some drugs like benzoes and alcohol withdrawel will kill you or otherwise a poor person stealing to feed/clothe family] having a system like america is counter productive with their 3 strike policy where it counts all crimes with no distintsion.

    Id say that crimes should be on a case by case basis for instance if someone went out with the intent to kill someone lock them away for life however if someone was at a lub and a br fight broke out say he pushedsomeone nd that someone fell and cracked there head sending him to jail for years would help no one.. not to mention the problem that people with records find it very hard to get work and thus will almost certainly commit crime again.
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    Because the criminal justice system isnt solely about revenge.. It has to draw a fine line between many competing objectives for instance; deterrance/punishment/rehabilitation/public safety and so on..
    Not to mention reasons like many ridiculous laws on the books, victimless crimes [for instance drug possession], circumstances [a drug addict stealing for their habit is interesting as some drugs like benzoes and alcohol withdrawel will kill you or otherwise a poor person stealing to feed/clothe family] having a system like america is counter productive with their 3 strike policy where it counts all crimes with no distintsion.

    Id say that crimes should be on a case by case basis for instance if someone went out with the intent to kill someone lock them away for life however if someone was at a lub and a br fight broke out say he pushedsomeone nd that someone fell and cracked there head sending him to jail for years would help no one.. not to mention the problem that people with records find it very hard to get work after release and will almost certainly reoffend..
    Approaches like in spain [first sentance of under two years is alwys commuted to probation] NZL [a lot more is done to rehabilitate] and of course norway.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    What an incredibly childish thing to say. If I put a gun to your head and say steal a chocolate bar or I'm going to shoot you and then kill your entire family in your eyes you should go to jail if you steal the chocolate bar.

    In law defences exist because sometimes in unreasonable to find someone liable for their actions.


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    Yes I understand how this could work.. but let's use a little common sense here. There would be a totally different crime taken place and a much more difficult one to solve. This is why every person needs personal recording devices that the information is always saved remotely.. not that difficult to achieve with todays technology.

    Stop creating problems.. let's solve them!
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    Yes I understand how this could work.. but let's use a little common sense here. There would be a totally different crime taken place and a much more difficult one to solve. This is why every person needs personal recording devices that the information is always saved remotely.. not that difficult to achieve with todays technology.

    Stop creating problems.. let's solve them!
    Why on earth should I have a personal recording device attached to me 24/7? That's an utterly ridiculous suggestion. Besides it wouldn't solve anything. I could still go out 'commit' a crime and there would still be no way anyone could be 100% certain of my guilt


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Why on earth should I have a personal recording device attached to me 24/7? That's an utterly ridiculous suggestion. Besides it wouldn't solve anything. I could still go out 'commit' a crime and there would still be no way anyone could be 100% certain of my guilt


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    For your own protection of course.. and it would solve a lot of things actually.

    If somebody was bribing me for example.. it would be recorded.. thus evidence to protect me and then i wouldn't have to commit a crime because somebody "held a gun to my head".. ridiculous scenario i know!!
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    For your own protection of course.. and it would solve a lot of things actually.

    If somebody was bribing me for example.. it would be recorded.. thus evidence to protect me and then i wouldn't have to commit a crime because somebody "held a gun to my head".. ridiculous scenario i know!!
    Well thankfully we have the right to privacy so that won't be happening


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Well thankfully we have the right to privacy so that won't be happening


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    Privacy is needed only in certain situations. If out in public and therefor in a situation you might be subjected to a criminal activity... it would be a very useful tool.

    I can see how this technology could be abused in some situations however for me the pro's outweigh the con's
 
 
 
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