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Alert! British citizens who wish to retain EU citizenship ... Watch

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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I'm asking you to explain the joke. It was poorly executed. What's the punchline?
    The fact that you have a german flag as an avatar. Come on, it's not that hard to understand.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    If you stoop to the level of criticising grammar because you are unable to challenge the statement itself then that isn't a great show for you, is it?
    I love when English people with embarrassingly flawed English get defensive about it

    That aside, the major mistake in that beloved statement of yours is, as someone has already pointed out, 52% of the country did not vote to leave. And even if they did, this petition still does in no way affect them.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    The fact that you have a german flag as an avatar. Come on, it's not that hard to understand.
    What does turning the gas mark to 5 have to do with that?
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I love when English people with embarrassingly flawed English get defensive about it

    That aside, the major mistake in that beloved statement of yours is, as someone has already pointed out, 52% of the country did not vote to leave. And even if they did, this petition still does in no way affect them.
    I already addressed this to somebody else, it is very clear that I mean the electorate. In addition, 52% of the 72% of the electorate (precise enough?) did elect to leave the European union, regardless of whether or not it is a legally binding referendum.

    I don't deny I made a grammatical error, but that doesn't somehow weaken what I am saying.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    What does turning the gas mark to 5 have to do with that?
    You aren't stupid, you know it's a blatant holocaust joke.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    You aren't stupid, you know it's a blatant holocaust joke.
    That's all I needed for you to admit: that you just made a Holocaust joke in an attempt to belittle my standpoint. Cheap, cheap stuff. Regretful.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    That's all I needed for you to admit: that you just made a Holocaust joke in an attempt to belittle my standpoint. Cheap, cheap stuff. Regretful.
    Well, if we're in the business of assassinating character I may as well get my stab in as well.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    My interest in Europe lies largely in the technological opportunities there in companies like Siemens and BMW. I do not expect the EU to be a utopia, but my work will not flourish here as well as it would there.
    Your work will not flourish in Germany as much as it would in Japan or South Korea. The EU is a failing institution, and in order to see the extent of public disdain, just look at the unprecedented rise in Euroscepticism all across Europe. France is now fiercely Eurosceptic, and so too is the Netherlands where the PVV (an anti-Islam and anti-immigration) is leading in the opinion polls by a comfortable margin. If France leaves the EU, which is becoming evermore likely with the rise of the FN, then the EU is finished. I predict that Austria, The Netherlands and Italy all leave the EU within the next decade as Eurosceptic parties in those countries are leading in the opinion polls.
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    Your attitudes are horrible; it's like people not following what Cameron says because almost as many people voted for Labour.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    Your work will not flourish in Germany as much as it would in Japan or South Korea. The EU is a failing institution, and in order to see the extent of public disdain, just look at the unprecedented rise in Euroscepticism all across Europe. France is now fiercely Eurosceptic, and so too is the Netherlands where the PVV (an anti-Islam and anti-immigration) is leading in the opinion polls by a comfortable margin. If France leaves the EU, which is becoming evermore likely with the rise of the FN, then the EU is finished. I predict that Austria, The Netherlands and Italy all leave the EU within the next decade as Eurosceptic parties in those countries are leading in the opinion polls.
    The disintegration and reintegration of the EU is needed anyway. Once the EU falls apart, I predict some sorts of special unions to form between countries of comparable GDP, such as Great Britain, Germany, Austria in the first tier; Spain, Portugal, Italy etc in the second tier; Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece in the third tier, etc. Europe has too much to offer for us to stay disconnected from it forever.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes it should, it is a blatant majority of the voting electorate. Imagine if we swapped the issue from brexit to slavery, and 52% voted to abolish slavery. Would you be saying that then?
    Let me flip your argument on its head. If 52% of voters had voted not to abolish slavery, would you not continue to campaign for abolition?
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    Let me flip your argument on its head. If 52% of voters had voted not to abolish slavery, would you not continue to campaign for abolition?
    I would accept that the people chose that, and shut up until a reason came up that would change the opinion of the populace.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I would accept that the people chose that, and shut up until a reason came up that would change the opinion of the populace.
    You would not campaign for something you knew was right, simply because a majority of enfranchised people in your country thought otherwise? If people had done as you had done, we would still have slavery.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    You would not campaign for something you knew was right, simply because a majority of enfranchised people in your country thought otherwise? If people had done as you had done, we would still have slavery.
    I would still hold the belief that slavery was wrong, of course. However, I would accept defeat and wait for things to change before attempting to do any campaigning, as quite clearly the people oppose.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I would still hold the belief that slavery was wrong, of course. However, I would accept defeat and wait for things to change before attempting to do any campaigning, as quite clearly the people oppose.
    It's campaigners who disregard public opinion who create change in the first place. Those who keep their heads down in the midst of injustice and wait for things to change are just as responsible for the injustice as its perpetrators. If you believe something is unjust, campaigning against it is a moral imperative. I'll say it again: if people had done as you would, slavery would still be legal.
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    Please stop with these petitions, they don't achieve anything. I think if Theresa May becomes PM we will keep free movement, because if we don't we will lose the free trade
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Almost as insane as 48% of the electorate being forced to leave the EU against their will.
    Wah wah wah.
    Democracy is great until you're on the losing side of it...
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    It's campaigners who disregard public opinion who create change in the first place. Those who keep their heads down in the midst of injustice and wait for things to change are just as responsible for the injustice as its perpetrators. If you believe something is unjust, campaigning against it is a moral imperative. I'll say it again: if people had done as you would, slavery would still be legal.
    I think George W. Bush said something like this after 9/11, "if you're not with us you're against us" or something?
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    Direct democracy represents ill-considered, extremist views.

    High standards of education (and ultimately the ability to think critically) are difficult to implement so the ratios of informed voters and under-informed voters are non-ideal. And if the majorities are this slim, the uncertainty is too high to make such a large constitutional change with potentially grave implications (from the unfettered access of EU migrants to work and live here, to economic downturn and destruction of the HRA).

    By analogy, it's like the uncertainties of a meter rule - you can't measure to more accuracy than .1cm because the graduations are so large. The uncertainty in miscounting and whether electorate opinion is sufficiently swayed should be called into question. If it was 60% or 65% Leave and 35% or 40% Remain then there's no doubt the will of the country is being properly exercised.

    2%? I'd say it's a bit too divided to call the shots.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I think George W. Bush said something like this after 9/11, "if you're not with us you're against us" or something?
    I would say, in contrast, "If you don't do anything, you're a part of the problem." I'm not so bothered about whether people stand with me or against me, but I prefer very much that they stand for something, in accordance with what they believe in. I would never say to a political opponent, "Shut up and accept it" and I wish others wouldn't either.
 
 
 
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