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    I love when people say "leadsom hasn't got experience so I'm not supporting her"

    can't you fools understand that your ability to enter a ministerial position is based on your ability or willingness to support the party/government of the day? :| it's really not about skill. if it was about skill, they wouldn't want to hire anybody from the house of commons - they weren't put there for skill or intelligence, only representation/leadership

    may has got "experience" all right; experience in kissing david cameron's big fat etonian *ass*.
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    I am torn between both of them. I really have no clue at the moment, from a small amount of reading I think I Like a lot of what Leadsom has put foward but May also has points I agree with.

    But in all honesty whoever wins I am very happy for as they neither or them seem bad
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    And how many of those meetings did he attend? Not an excessive number to be sure

    I really do not see how attending privy council meetings makes someone more suited to making these sorts of decisions. If MPs are good enough to be making and voting on legislation, of things like going to war in the first place, then they should also surely be good enough to select one of three sensible directives in the event of a nuclear holocaust. I think the gravity of that eventuality belies the simplicity of the decision PMs have to make in response to it
    Just to clarify one point, Privy Council meetings are purely formal affairs normally only attended by ministers in the government in office. Briefings on privy council terms are secret briefings provided to opposition politicians on diplomatic, military and security issues.

    It is not the choice that matters in drafting letters of last resort as much as the reasons for those choices. They are essentially letters to posterity about the last acts of the present day British state.

    Leadsom really is a leap in the dark. There is no guarantee that under any other PM, Leadsom would ever have joined the cabinet let alone become PM. Frankly all anyone knows about her is a couple of good speeches in an environment alien to British politics.

    Journalists are scrabbling to establish what her positions are on anything other than Brexit and really what they have found tends to only be about "free vote" issues because she has just, as one would expect a junior minister climbing the greasy pole to do, toed the party line on party partisan matters.

    Whilst she says she is a Christian, she is not a regular churchgoer, unlike May. Her social views seem considerably to the right of the country as a whole, because there is a very large swathe of the Tory leaning classes whose motto is Live and Let Live.

    Her position on the foxhunting ban seems well out of step with the British people who (a) want this not to be a distracting political or policing issue (b) do not want to see the prosecution of hunters (c) do not want hunting legalised and (d) want hunters to conduct their activists discreetly. In other words the public's views of foxhunting are very similar to their views of personal drug taking and their views about homosexuality before the anti-vice campaigns of the 1950s.

    Her views on homosexuality as published in the press do not appear logically coherent probably because no-one has subjected them to any examination before. She seems to want gay marriage but for it not to be called marriage. Given civil partnerships existed, how was that different from outright opposition? Her reasoning for her views was because Christians didn't like it. If that is right that is the top of a number of slippery slopes which she doesn't appear to have thought through. I personally don't agree where the law has ended up, because I am a strong believer in the traditional British solution to conflicts of personal morality; the "conscience clause", but her position has authoritarian overtones.

    There have been few hints of an economic policy but what there are seem well to the left of her supporters and indeed well to the left of mainstream Conservative thought.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    I love when people say "leadsom hasn't got experience so I'm not supporting her"

    can't you fools understand that your ability to enter a ministerial position is based on your ability or willingness to support the party/government of the day? :| it's really not about skill. if it was about skill, they wouldn't want to hire anybody from the house of commons - they weren't put there for skill or intelligence, only representation/leadership

    may has got "experience" all right; experience in kissing david cameron's big fat etonian *ass*.
    There is no doubt that longevity as a minister depends on talent within a relatively restricted pool. There are plenty of ministers who do not cut the mustard and are dropped or sidelined very quickly without any policy disagreements or scandal.

    Cameron and May were not close. It has been well recognised that Cameron has a "woman issue". He likes being surrounded by public schoolboy chums. May made her reputation managing the Commons as Shadow Leader of the House. The Home Office has in the last 30 years become the politicians' graveyard. May has been helped by Cameron's willingness to face down press calls for multiple reshuffles which have been the bane of PMs' lives since Thatcher.

    If you look at the position since Douglas Hurd left office in 1989:

    Conservatives 1989-1997

    Waddington
    Baker
    Clarke
    Howard

    Labour 1997-2010

    Straw
    Blunkett
    Clarke
    Reid
    Smith
    Johnson

    That gives 10 holders in 21 years. In the same period there were 4 Chancellors of the Exchequer and 6 Foreign Secretaries. May has now been in office for 6 years. The criticism of her lack of foreign policy experience isn't really valid because the principal foreign policy issue over the last 6 years has been terrorism and she has been the lead on that.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    He's just a bitter old man, lost the leadership several times and now is being dragged out of his beloved EU.
    He seemed quite happy in the video. And he's backing May.
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    I actually think we need a proper brexit PM and cabinet.

    Who should get the blame/praise when things go right/wrong.
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    a rock and a hard place, my friends. a rock and a hard place
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    He seemed quite happy in the video. And he's backing May.
    Did you expect him to back the open leaver over the closet leaver?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Did you expect him to back the open leaver over the closet leaver?
    I think a fair chunk of the parliamentary party couldn't give a toss about the EU and voted purely out of career self interest. That includes people on both sides.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I think a fair chunk of the parliamentary party couldn't give a toss about the EU and voted purely out of career self interest. That includes people on both sides.
    And I doubt he's ever going near the front bench again, after his comments, and he does care about the EU.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And I doubt he's ever going near the front bench again, after his comments, and he does care about the EU.
    He's standing down in 2020, and he's done everything bar PM anyway.

    He does, but he does accept the referendum too. Fair play to the Tories, they are utterly pragmatic.
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    May hands down. Absolutely has to be...
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    This is pretty much the contest I was expecting.

    So now people that want to vote for a candidate that supports leaving don't have to feel guilty about not supporting a woman, or supporting a candidate that stabbed Boris Johnson in the back. Leadsom has a better chance than Gove did, because he hurt his own image too much.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    He's standing down in 2020, and he's done everything bar PM anyway.

    He does, but he does accept the referendum too. Fair play to the Tories, they are utterly pragmatic.
    Hansard disagrees somewhat: http://goo.gl/69KG2E

    In particular this bit
    Does my right hon. Friend agree that we still have a parliamentary democracy and it would be the duty of each Member of Parliament to judge each measure in the light of what each man and woman regards as the national interest, and not to take broad guidance from a plebiscite which has produced a small majority on a broad question after a bad-tempered and ill-informed debate?
    TL;DR we should be able to ignore the rest.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    TL;DR we should be able to ignore the rest.
    We are a parliamentary democracy and i see nothing in that speech about him ignoring the referendum- but merely clarifying as to what leaving the EU entails exactly in terms of what we are opting out of (EG No one on leave has said we are going to be opting out of everything EU related which would be retarded) and on then voting on this in parliament.

    dont know why thats an issue tbh...
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    We are a parliamentary democracy and i see nothing in that speech about him ignoring the referendum- but merely clarifying as to what leaving the EU entails exactly in terms of what we are opting out of (EG No one on leave has said we are going to be opting out of everything EU related which would be retarded) and on then voting on this in parliament.

    dont know why thats an issue tbh...
    Which is why, formalities aside, the first thing Cameron says is "shut up we're not ignoring it," and do you mean like how the remain side were insisting we would be cut off, an EU army definitely wasn't happening, nor was Turkey, nor was trade deals with anybody, nor was further integration?
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    I was so for Andrea but I'm not keen on the fact that she supports fox hunting.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Which is why, formalities aside, the first thing Cameron says is "shut up we're not ignoring it,"
    No he doesn't, he agrees but says its for a future government.


    and do you mean like how the remain side were insisting we would be cut off, an EU army definitely wasn't happening, nor was Turkey, nor was trade deals with anybody, nor was further integration?
    1: remains to be seen
    2: hasn't happened, would have had an opt out anyway
    3: it isn't happening. Even if we didnt veto it, Hungary et al would
    4: Nobody said that. they said they wouldnt be as good and would take a long time. remains to be seen.
    5: we had an opt out.



    I think your hatred of Clarke (Who other than the EU you'd probably agree with) is making you somewhat irrational tbh,.
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    (Original post by Alfissti)
    I hope May gets it.

    We can't be having a non-Oxbridge graduate as PM..
    Waoxbridge mate
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    Leadsom!! Haha Warwick University has your back
 
 
 
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