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UK Scientists dropped from EU projects because of funding fears watch

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    I guess the UK science industry's hopes rest on our crumbling government, but then there may be investors who are willing to help out. I was thinking of going into research before, but I had changed my mind even before Brexit, so I'm not sure if it will affect me too much (as I'm still going for a degree within science). Still, it really does lower the prospects of the industry over here. I guess we'll have to see
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Go abroad then, I assure you with an attitude like yours you won't be missed.
    I can assure you that I'd miss a constructive member of society like Twinpeaks a lot more than an anti-intellectual alethophobe like yourself.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I can assure you that I'd miss a constructive member of society like Twinpeaks a lot more than an anti-intellectual alethophobe like yourself.
    Wow big words for a small person.

    Shocking how you can be staff on this site.

    I am the one saying don't give in to fear keep an open mind and the ones saying "oh noes the world is ending" are the good people.

    Go and live in the real world for a change instead of living that sheltered life you have.

    FYI me not constuctive? I guess helping build an orphanage abroad where I won awards wasn't constructive, all the charity work I did means I am not constuctive, helping a friend who was sectioned giving him somewhere to stay wasn't constructive, working myself despite almost having a breakdown wasn't contructiive.

    But yeah I disagree with closed minded people means I am not constructive.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Go abroad then, I assure you with an attitude like yours you won't be missed.

    And then see how far your over inflated sense of worth gets you competing with other people and realising you are really small fish.
    You either have no idea what research and science actually is or how much it contributes to our economy and lives in general, or... I actually don't even know. All I know is that you'd miss it if all the benefits of it were gone. Whether it's the drug that may have extended your life, the intervention that may have saved your loved one, the new technology for the car you're driving or just the cold hard £££s it lends to our economy.

    Honestly, it's people with viewpoints like yours who I myself wouldn't miss...
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    You either have no idea what research and science actually is or how much it contributes to our economy and lives in general, or... I actually don't even know. All I know is that you'd miss it if all the benefits of it were gone. Whether it's the drug that may have extended your life, the intervention that may have saved your loved one, the new technology for the car you're driving or just the cold hard £££s it lends to our economy.

    Honestly, it's people with viewpoints like yours who I myself wouldn't miss...
    Why is it my viewpoint that is wrong when mine is the open minded wait anda see not jump at every thing that happens one.

    By the way I dont drive or ever intend to.

    The responses are automatically caving to fear instead of taking each day when it comes.

    Things could go tits up in the future or it may stabilse or it may go up and down.

    If we give in to fear then of course the worst things will happen as people wouldn't deviate from the norm.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Why is it my viewpoint that is wrong when mine is the open minded wait anda see not jump at every thing that happens one.

    By the way I dont drive or ever intend to.

    The responses are automatically caving to fear instead of taking each day when it comes.

    Things could go tits up in the future or it may stabilse or it may go up and down.

    If we give in to fear then of course the worst things will happen as people wouldn't deviate from the norm.
    Perhaps because when you say "viewpoint", you're being very rude to somebody who is expressing their valid concerns, and on top of that implying that what they are doing is worth nothing, when it is in fact a really important part of our economy and society? If that kind of behaviour is what you think the phrase "open minded" means, we have different dictionaries.

    No matter how much we wish on a little star and so on, simply believing in something really hard doesn't make it happen. You cannot simply write off facts as 'fear'! It's straying into the realms of deliberate self-delusion to do so.

    The EU gave millions of pounds of funding to science in the UK. It will no longer be doing so unless the people in charge in Brussels have completely lost track of who is and who isn't a member. This is a "fact". Significant science projects had pan-european collaboration with EU funding, that the UK will forfeit when it leaves. Fact. British scientists are being asked to step down from European projects so as not to prejudice important science. Fact.
    https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-funding-fears

    You can sit there with fingers in your ears trying to drown out the sound of what is happening and saying it's just 'fear', or you can look at what is the logical consequences and then also the actual consequences, already happening around us.

    Scientists are pretty practical people, who look at logic and results. The facts are that this is a big problem which is already starting to make itself known and logically there is no reason why it would not continue to do so.

    If you wish to somehow pretend to yourself that is imaginary, you're going to have to start some kind of brainwashing cult if you want to find people to play pretend along with you. And honestly if people keep acting the way you do, by the time they finally decide this reality is indeed real and not 'fear' superimposed upon the world, we're going to be even more screwed than if we actually get it together NOW and try to do something to fix it. We don't have the space for people to stick their fingers in their ears and chant "lalalala"...
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    So you can see 20, 30 40 or more years into the future can you?
    .
    Well that will always be your argument.

    No one knows, therefore, it is unarguable.

    On the other-hand, the pound has depreciated 20% as predicted, science funding is under threat as predicted, recession as predicted and etc.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    ****.

    This is exactly what I along with many others said would happen. UK scientific research and academia in general is going to go down the drain. A big thank you to those idiots who voted to destroy the academic standing of our country.

    Big ****ing thanks.
    Nice to see TSR scientists aren't level headed or rational either

    Maybe, just maybe, some of us had a reason to vote leave that didn't revolve around science and other people's careers?
    And before anyone jumps down my throat here yes I know science is important. But it wasn't the golden goose for everyone so I would recommend not being so cheeky as to call us idiots for something that's not everyone's main voting point.
    There was a Facebook group for scientists against the EU too so once again, not everyone sees your 'enlightened, so much smarter' way.

    You're welcome.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    FOR YOUR INFORMATION I AM AUTISTIC, it wasn't a insult it is a statement autistic people stick to certain patterns like logic and refuse to see any other point of view, and I take offense at calling it a mental disorder but since its written that way in something you read I guess that makes it ok then (despite things in print that are offensive and been changed over the years)

    If anything that just proves the point unless something is on paper to you it doesn't exist
    You are twisting things to try and support your logic whilst in denial of any other possibility.

    Also I have been told in past many things by doctors outside of the easy things not a single one has come true, they can't understand for example that I am overweight but have low/normal blood pressure, good cholesterol, good breathing its pretty much "but you are fat this doesn't make sense"

    Or people being told they have weeks/months to live and pulling through and living a long time

    Irrationality right back at cha.

    Funny enough though that I am always told I use far too much logic in my life and it affects my enjoyment of things.
    So because you have autism that gives you the right to diagnose others based on stigmatising stereotypes? FYI I have worked in a school for children and young people with moderate to severe autism and I think maybe only one or two of the pupils I worked with fit the stereotype of being more "logical", and that may not have even been autism, but an individual character trait.

    You disagree with it being disorder? Perhaps you forget how those with severe autism, those who are non-verbal and have breakdowns and severe anxiety if they become over-stimulated suffer. But this is derailing the thread. I'm not going to continue talking to you, you are completely irrational, and a waste of my time.

    Come back when you actually have a clear counter argument to this thread, I.e a good argument for how our science and research is not going to suffer due to Brexit. Because no one else is providing it, if you are so in the right, then please explain.
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    (Original post by ChargingStag)
    Nice to see TSR scientists aren't level headed or rational either

    Maybe, just maybe, some of us had a reason to vote leave that didn't revolve around science and other people's careers?
    And before anyone jumps down my throat here yes I know science is important. But it wasn't the golden goose for everyone so I would recommend not being so cheeky as to call us idiots for something that's not everyone's main voting point.
    There was a Facebook group for scientists against the EU too so once again, not everyone sees your 'enlightened, so much smarter' way.

    You're welcome.
    What am I meant to be thanking you for? For not caring about science?

    :rofl:
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Why is it my viewpoint that is wrong when mine is the open minded wait anda see not jump at every thing that happens one.

    By the way I dont drive or ever intend to.

    The responses are automatically caving to fear instead of taking each day when it comes.

    Things could go tits up in the future or it may stabilse or it may go up and down.

    If we give in to fear then of course the worst things will happen as people wouldn't deviate from the norm.
    By suggesting that science is pointless or useless, you are effectively being ignorant to how it fuels your daily routines. It would be difficult to not acknowledge the catastrophe that would happen if our electricity supplies suddenly broke down or the satellites that power communications suddenly were misprogrammed to be at a slightly different (and then perhaps less efficient) position in the sky.

    I am speaking in complete hyperbole, because we all know that leaving the EU is not going to stop our source of electricity or alter the position of satellites in the sky. But I am trying to showcase the sheer importance that the scientific community has had on advancing our society and how it will continue to do so on a daily basis: we may choose to ignore it but new ideas are coming together every day.

    A lack of scientific funding will hinder new scientists who have the potential to accelerate the progress the scientific community is making in the physiological, biotechnological, computational, chemical, mathematical, physical - (and the list goes on...) - sectors.

    We are currently within a volatility period and uncertainty is everywhere. So, it is perhaps too quick for people to judge that the funding towards the sciences will be completely destroyed by Brexit, but it is definitely ignorant to disagree with the undeniable importance the sciences have had (and are having) in our societies and hence the upsetting prospect that Brexit might indeed have a negative impact on the science sector.*
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    What am I meant to be thanking you for? For not caring about science?

    :rofl:
    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Big ****ing thanks.
    You already did.

    And sorry to burst any bubbles but I like science. It was just not my one and only reason for voting and declaring everyone's idiocy.
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    Pretty much every Brexiter comment on this thread makes me weep.

    The level of anti-intellectualism on show honestly makes me realise what direction people who voted out of the EU were happy to drag us down.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Pretty much every Brexiter comment on this thread makes me weep.

    The level of anti-intellectualism on show honestly makes me realise what direction people who voted out of the EU were happy to drag us down.
    How can you say that with a straight face given how much superiority complex and hatred has spewed from Remainers? The side that is priding itself on saying old people shouldn't be allowed to vote and insulting Leavers on close minded and presumptuous beliefs that we're stupid, uneducated and every other bad name under the sun. The more time that goes by the more I am so so glad that people like certain Remainers did not win. I am also often saddened by what Leavers have done in the wake of victory to give the rest a bad name.

    I'm not saying Leavers are better. I'm saying both sides are very, very far from perfect here.
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    Note to all: I can't believe I've stayed up to 10 to 7 in the morning to finish this forsaken reply on my phone! I believe I deserve a pat on the back! (Now 06:52am...)

    (How incredibly sad of my life... )

    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Article link

    Extremely upsetting. But also not exactly surprising.
    And only scientists matter in the UK...

    (Original post by TeaAndSugar)
    This is so worrying Has this been officially addressed by the government? I feel like since Brexit the UK is going to fall back from being at the forefront of scientific research, and I'm increasingly worried about job prospects as a researcher.

    It seems like leaving the EU can only be negative for science (but I would love to be proven wrong!). No wonder leave campaigners never mentioned it.
    Okay, this is wrong...

    the UK evidently has the highest collaboration with other member states in the EU (I'm not willing to calculate the specific lead in collaboration at 5:17am.)(It'd be detrimental to them if they hindered this collaboration with us.)

    https://www.elsevier.com/__data/asse...13.pdf#page=19

    And the US, who is not part of the EU, are also at the top for collaboration with EU member states.
    (Jammy Duel can you source this? Again, I really need to be getting to bed.)

    Found it! Page 45, in appendix c.

    The USA, not a member state of the EU, are in the top 7 ranked pairs for collaboration.

    https://www.elsevier.com/__data/asse...13.pdf#page=45

    (Original post by TeaAndSugar)
    It's scary seeing how much funding we get from the EU. Almost 40% in some subjects!
    Certainly the UK can just divert some of our expected net contribution of £31,532,000.00 million a day for 2016 for example into scientific research and funding? (This net contribution figure however doesn't account for funding to the private sector, like for scientific research and universities, but we would still pay a massive net contribution regardless.)

    Name:  net contribution to the EU not accounting for the negligible private sector receipts.jpg
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    (And I'll research the exact figures for EU funding to research tomorrow; can't right now, gotta go.)

    (Original post by TeaAndSugar)
    I know, but the UK got a lot more out than it paid in (it got the second highest I believe?). But hopefully that will be the case!
    Above; the graph shows the trends for our net contribution and other things for data between 2004 and 2014.

    A minor fault is that it doesn't account for payments to the private sector. I say this in case people notice, so this isn't blown outta proportion.

    I made it.
    Mit den Quellen.~

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    but muh sovereingty
    And muh economics.

    (Original post by elitepower)
    And it begins. Brexit ruins our industries and the country becomes irrelevant.*
    Our country becomes irrelevant!?!?

    Okay, look at the amount of collaboration we do with other member states; we are at the top.

    https://www.elsevier.com/__data/asse...13.pdf#page=19

    And the US is also at the top, yet they are not part of the EU!

    Also it is the UK that is in the highest pair of countries for collaboration, with the US!

    It's laughable to even consider we'd become a backwater country.

    https://www.elsevier.com/__data/asse...13.pdf#page=45

    And even hypocritical to point fingers at the UK, but not at eurozone countries, considering the teetering eurozone crisis!

    Have you even heard what's happening in Italy? The debt?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708357

    I'm pretty sure Obama has redacted his statement about the UK going to the back of the queue as well.

    http://time.com/4382111/president-ob...p-wont-change/
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Pretty much every Brexiter comment on this thread makes me weep.

    The level of anti-intellectualism on show honestly makes me realise what direction people who voted out of the EU were happy to drag us down.
    Oh get rekt with my post above.

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    (Original post by stevey396)
    They are idiots who lack the social skills/can't be bothered to find a proper job in the private sector.

    The vast majority of them contribute absolutely nothing to society and their self-masturbatory "research" is meaningless.
    Absolute *******s. Research investment is one of few sure fire ways to increase GDP - cardiovascular research for instance has a phenomenal 195% return on investment over the course of a five year parliament.

    Alternatively, to quote Jonathan Haskell (imperials then professor of economics) speech to the science and technology commitee in 2010:

    Current spend is about £3.5bn, this gives around £60bn additional market sector output. If, to be conservative, one halves this, one gets a contribution of publically funded research to GDP of £30bn, which is about 2% of GDP. Put another way, if support for research councils was cut by, say, 1 billion then GDP would fall by around £10bn"
    We can't compete for manufacturing - we've precious few natural resources so import costs will always take a chunk, and labour costs are prohibitively high compared to say Taiwan - we as a country have to survive on our nous and wit; and our R&D sector is crucial to that. Despite which our R&D spending last year fell below 0.5% of GDP - the lowest in the G8 and well below the average of the eurozone and the EU28.

    Researchers aren't idiots, not is their work worthless; rather it's crucial to this country's long term success. Of course of this funding is lost and not replaced, as previous evidence would suggest, you might find that researchers, and companies that invest heavily in research such as the pharmaceutical sector, simply go elsewhere.


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    (Original post by Rorschach II)
    Our country becomes irrelevant!?!?
    *
    *
    I'm sick of people bringing up irrelevant countries to defend leaving the EU. Yes other countries are doing fine but there are also countries outside the EU not doing well. There is no more evidence supporting we will become a Canada or America that one of the other ones. Especially as the comparisons to Canada and America don't hold as well have a lot of differences from them.
    *
    Yes our country is becoming irrelevant. It is not the Empire anymore; Leavers have to grow up from their nationalism and accept the fact Britain isn't the centre of the universe. We have seen the science industry decline because of this decision and others will follow as instability is bad for business. This will be a net negative and we will all suffer. *
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    Looks like all you egg heads will have to go and find a real job!

    Just kidding. This is bad news indeed. *
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    So because you have autism that gives you the right to diagnose others based on stigmatising stereotypes? FYI I have worked in a school for children and young people with moderate to severe autism and I think maybe only one or two of the pupils I worked with fit the stereotype of being more "logical", and that may not have even been autism, but an individual character trait.

    You disagree with it being disorder? Perhaps you forget how those with severe autism, those who are non-verbal and have breakdowns and severe anxiety if they become over-stimulated suffer. But this is derailing the thread. I'm not going to continue talking to you, you are completely irrational, and a waste of my time.

    Come back when you actually have a clear counter argument to this thread, I.e a good argument for how our science and research is not going to suffer due to Brexit. Because no one else is providing it, if you are so in the right, then please explain.
    So someone who reads a book knows more than someone with actual autism

    That is pure stupidity and just shows how messed up logic goes.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will find fault as you seem to think you are some sort of magical genius that knows everything,

    And the same experts like doctors have said it to me, and I have worked with kids with autism myself.

    Or does reading your little books mean you have more knowledge than people with experience.
    Try living in the real world.

    And for your infomation I never said we wouldn't suffer the whole point is we can't predict everything that will happen, you are cherry picking things that are overly logical hence why people always say change is hard, until we have at least a few years after leaving we can make proper judgements then.
 
 
 
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