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What exactly is your problem with benefits?

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    I think people are more annoyed about those who claim benefits fraudulently or inappropriately.

    There are plenty of people who claim things like Jobseeker's Allowance, disability benefits, housing benefits, child benefits etc. Not because they can't get money for themselves by working, but because they don't want to.

    The benefits system is supposed to be there as a last resort for people who can't get money from anywhere else and have no alternative but to claim benefits to stop themselves from starving.

    It's not there for people who, for example, intentionally have more children so as to be able to get a bigger council house, or who claim JSA but then don't bother applying for jobs, refuse jobs that come up etc.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I think people are more annoyed about those who claim benefits fraudulently or inappropriately.

    There are plenty of people who claim things like Jobseeker's Allowance, disability benefits, housing benefits, child benefits etc. Not because they can't get money for themselves by working, but because they don't want to.

    The benefits system is supposed to be there as a last resort for people who can't get money from anywhere else and have no alternative but to claim benefits to stop themselves from starving.

    It's not there for people who, for example, intentionally have more children so as to be able to get a bigger council house, or who claim JSA but then don't bother applying for jobs, refuse jobs that come up etc.
    All you did was repeat everything my op was already aware of and challenged...especially the bit about intentionally having children. How do you know this? Do you sit with them before they have sex and they confess their plan to get knocked up on purpose?
    Just the same there are plenty of people who aren't corruptly abusing the system at all.
    How do you know anything about what people want to do? (in reference to you saying they don't want to earn money themselves). How do you know this? :laugh: Do you understand what disability is? It's not just being in a wheelchair, so it's not what meets the eye. There are amnesiacs, people with PTSD, depression, anomalies, or behavioral disorders that prevents em getting other jobs, but they can mobilise and lift just fine, so at face value the stranger wouldn't believe they need disability, but they very well could There are also people on JSA who are insecure about their deficiencies and scared to look for certain kinds of work. Or they're just fine but lost their job and it can happen to ANYONE. Your post just looked very judgemental which was the point of the thread, you didn't put anything enlightening at all lol
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    Not giving people benefits is like
    not giving homeless money
    "because they'll spend it on drugs."

    To hell with that :laugh: how do you know? Don't subscribe to heartlessness folks.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    I feel most people don't even know which benefits are being claimed and aren't aware of eligibility requirements, nor sanctions. People just stay in a comfort zone of insulting what some people who claim look like, and don't realise all the circumstances within the democratic benefits system that sets UK apart from other countries who ignore civil and human rights to be helped by their government.

    Most benefits are disability, earned tax credits, and supplementing inadequate pay whilst employed or formerly employed.

    I'll list the popular ones or ones I'm aware of the most:

    Child benefits/Child tax credits-what is your issue with people having kids?
    are you saying that people shouldn't be obliged to only have children if they're able to independently pay for them...? why should people have children that they can't even afford?

    -Guardian's allowance-this is for people caring for children. What's wrong with that?
    again, why should you be subsidised? you shouldn't have kids if you can't pay for them

    -NHS travel scheme and dental care-for those who need assistance with traveling for care or to hospital or whatever. Should someone die or stay ill simply because they're currently not in a good place financially?
    this one's a tad different in that it is given to *everybody*, not just a certain class of person

    -JSA/jobseeker's allowance-without it, people will be homeless whilst looking for work and skint. It's been cut massively and there are strict sanctions/penalty fees anyway. So what's the issue?
    I personally don't understand the necessity - I've been unemployed for years previously yet I was fine - my parents are both poor and only my father is employed (a postman). how poor are you supposed to be to be eligible? if I didn't qualify as an adult, why do others?

    -ESA-for disabled people still wanting to work. The problem is where?
    read previous entry

    -DLA-for disabled people again, and you can be very young claiming it or getting it claimed for you. Any issues with the disabled, anyone?
    it should only be given to you if you don't have parents - the first line of obligation is with the parents. if the parents then can't pay, then that's when the state should provide some facilitation, but not to fund a lifestyle

    -Working Tax credit-ermm these people are working. Operative word, "working."
    if you're working, why are they necessary? :|

    -Pensions are a form of benefits. Any silly problems with that?
    if they're private then I have no issue with pensions. if they're based on *your* work and contribution, then I have no issue

    -Maternity
    not only do I not agree, but maternity is given a higher status than paternity which is sexist

    -Housing benefits-what, you want them in the streets?
    are you implying at this point that some people don't deserve to be homeless? are you saying that homelessness ought to be banned? what if you're a screw up who has absolutely no care for work or reponsibility?

    -"Return to work and in work" credit among others was stopped in like '13, so even though I know it's ****ed ppl over majorly the system is being monitored. It's not like dole is being tossed around like confetti.
    ...huh?
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    All you did was repeat everything my op was already aware of and challenged...especially the bit about intentionally having children. How do you know this? Do you sit with them before they have sex and they confess their plan to get knocked up on purpose?
    Just the same there are plenty of people who aren't corruptly abusing the system at all.
    How do you know anything about what people want to do? (in reference to you saying they don't want to earn money themselves). How do you know this? :laugh: Do you understand what disability is? It's not just being in a wheelchair, so it's not what meets the eye. There are amnesiacs, people with PTSD, depression, anomalies, or behavioral disorders that prevents em getting other jobs, but they can mobilise and lift just fine, so at face value the stranger wouldn't believe they need disability, but they very well could There are also people on JSA who are insecure about their deficiencies and scared to look for certain kinds of work. Or they're just fine but lost their job and it can happen to ANYONE. Your post just looked very judgemental which was the point of the thread, you didn't put anything enlightening at all lol
    There are people who abuse the system, and there are people who don't abuse the system. People are annoyed with how the benefits system works because they think it is too easy to abuse.

    It's not much help saying "Yeah but there are people who don't abuse the system too". That's a totally separate issue, nobody has a problem with them.


    And yes, I used to work in a GP surgery in one of the poorest areas of the country, and have personally come across people who freely admit to their GP that they plan to have children in order to get benefits, who ask to be certified with disabilities that they don't have or sick notes that they don't need, who admit to spending a lot of the money they receive in benefits on drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, and also who freely admit that they don't want jobs because, financially speaking, they don't need them. (I recall one person stating that they didn't have a job because "filling out applications is boring").
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    are you saying that people shouldn't be obliged to only have children if they're able to independently pay for them...? why should people have children that they can't even afford?



    again, why should you be subsidised? you shouldn't have kids if you can't pay for them



    this one's a tad different in that it is given to *everybody*, not just a certain class of person



    I personally don't understand the necessity - I've been unemployed for years previously yet I was fine - my parents are both poor and only my father is employed (a postman). how poor are you supposed to be to be eligible? if I didn't qualify as an adult, why do others?



    read previous entry



    it should only be given to you if you don't have parents - the first line of obligation is with the parents. if the parents then can't pay, then that's when the state should provide some facilitation, but not to fund a lifestyle



    if you're working, why are they necessary? :|



    if they're private then I have no issue with pensions. if they're based on *your* work and contribution, then I have no issue



    not only do I not agree, but maternity is given a higher status than paternity which is sexist



    are you implying at this point that some people don't deserve to be homeless? are you saying that homelessness ought to be banned? what if you're a screw up who has absolutely no care for work or reponsibility?



    ...huh?
    Not that this post showed you to be at all intelligent along with your others :laugh: but I'll keep my response short, like your attention span.

    First of all:
    what do you want, people to be sterilised and not able to have kids? :rolleyes:
    Your last bit saying "huh?" shows how uneducated you are :laugh:

    Let's see what else do we have here, what an annoying set up you've got by the way...

    ermmmm what do you mean you don't "agree" with maternity.

    :toofunny: that is a form of benefits, it's a worker's right to receive maternity or being paid while pregnant, or able to work still, and there is paternity benefits as well!! :rofl:

    go away man I can't XD I'm ashamed just to quote you But thanks for quoting me because you just confirmed for ME that people have no idea wtf they're talking about :laugh:
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    There are people who abuse the system, and there are people who don't abuse the system. People are annoyed with how the benefits system works because they think it is too easy to abuse.

    It's not much help saying "Yeah but there are people who don't abuse the system too". That's a totally separate issue, nobody has a problem with them.


    And yes, I used to work in a GP surgery in one of the poorest areas of the country, and have personally come across people who freely admit to their GP that they plan to have children in order to get benefits, who ask to be certified with disabilities that they don't have or sick notes that they don't need, and who also freely admit that they don't want jobs because, financially speaking, they don't need them. (I recall one person stating that they didn't have a job because "filling out applications is boring".
    Thanks for modifying your post because your former sentiments certainly did not say this, referring to the bold part.

    Yes there are people who have an issue with people who don't abuse benefits because for one they don't seem to even be aware or willing to accept those people even exist! And my issue is judging people who are on them because of how they look, and what they spend their benefits on, and the generalisations. Saying "you're on benefits" is a simple statement loaded with chagrin and a shared set of misconceptions and ignorance. So people who say this are saying this to people who they presume are abusing the system, that's the general attitude to benefits, so of course it's the same issue because they inadvertently or intentionally and indifferently insult everyone on benefits when they blame the stereotypical benefits claimant. Your anecdotes in the last part are insufficient and I'm honestly not interested, soz.
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    (Original post by Seamus123)
    Much of this is to do with the number of programmes on TV about people who claim benefits. The public are inundated with constant images and commentary about the people at the bottom of the ladder who are portrayed to be lazy, feckless and draining the benefits system.
    Fact is, there are millions of pounds of benefits left unclaimed by people.
    Example: an 83 year old neighbour of mine I popped in to check on as we hadn't seen her for a few days had no heating on and it was January. She was lying in bed covered in coats and blankets. My grandson cooked something for her and took it round. Turns out she wasn't getting her annual Winter Fuel Payment of £200+ and hadn't had it for the previous year either., and there were other benefits she hadn't claimed for.
    This is exactly what universal credit is supposed to stop happening


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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Not that this post showed you to be at all intelligent along with your others :laugh: but I'll keep my response short, like your attention span.

    First of all:
    what do you want, people to be sterilised and not able to have kids? :rolleyes:
    no? if people can't afford children then they simply shouldn't (and won't) have them. why would you have a child if you knew there was nothing to support you and that you didn't independently have the money to pay for them? it would be child abuse. "what if they have them anyway?" - well, if they *know* that they can't possibly afford kids (with all the external factors involved, e.g. having parents that can support you, having savings but not necessarily income, etc) then that's surely criminal negligence. if they suddenly stumble upon bad times then maybe that's an appropriate place for the government to step in for, in the form of a loan, but not a free give-away.

    Your last bit saying "huh?" shows how uneducated you are :laugh:
    no you just phrased/woreded it terribly, actually. if anything your love for emojis shows your age...

    Let's see what else do we have here, what an annoying set up you've got by the way...
    my structured set up annoys you. wow...

    ermmmm what do you mean you don't "agree" with maternity.

    :toofunny: that is a form of benefits, it's a worker's right to receive maternity or being paid while pregnant, or able to work still, and there is paternity benefits as well!! :rofl:
    1) oh gosh, well if you call it a "right" and wave your magic wand then I guess that's totally inarguable then?! let's do that with everything we desire. I desire a toilet made of gold - let's call it a right to make me feel better about my desire and inability to pay! (you realise that in proper philosophy, "rights" aren't defined by our desires, but by what we're entitled to or deserving of. you're entitled to have kids, only if you can afford them, surely?! why should the government bribe you to not be abusive?
    2) I know there's such a thing as paternity - why did I even refer to it if I didn't know what it was? :|

    go away man I can't XD I'm ashamed just to quote you But thanks for quoting me because you just confirmed for ME that people have no idea wtf they're talking about :laugh:
    aw, you think you're convincing. awww...well champ: if you need somebody on the internet to take out your personal problems on I will gladly help you out because you need it desperately and I'm a nice guy like that
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    Just in case anyone is as uneducated as Mr. sleepysnooze over here,

    there are maternity benefits as well as paternity benefits, I didn't think I had to list every kind, assuming people had the internet to inform themselves...

    I also said in my op those benefits listed are the ones I constantly encounter people being on...

    I also said if you're aware of any other kinds of benefits, add to the list...:yy:

    Sleepy you're doing my head in, dear.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    This is exactly what universal credit is supposed to stop happening


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    UC has made people homeless :laugh:
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    UC has made people homeless :laugh:
    heyoo! feelin better????
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    (Original post by Reachin4TheStars)
    heyoo! feelin better????
    Not really but tryna keep busy, I cooked and went out for a bit, listening to my mum's favourite musician right now there's like 100 songs here I've never heard. The woman is a goddess.

    Tracy Chapman.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Thanks for modifying your post because your former sentiments certainly did not say this, referring to the bold part.
    My previous post said: "I think people are more annoyed about those who claim benefits fraudulently or inappropriately."

    Not just "those who claim benefits" full stop.

    Yes there are people who have an issue with people who don't abuse benefits because for one they don't seem to even be aware or willing to accept those people even exist!*And my issue is judging people who are on them because of how they look, and what they spend their benefits on, and the generalisations. Saying "you're on benefits" is a simple statement loaded with chagrin and a shared set of misconceptions and ignorance. So people who say this are saying this to people who they presume are abusing the system, that's the general attitude to benefits, so of course it's the same issue because they inadvertently or intentionally and indifferently insult everyone on benefits when they blame the stereotypical benefits claimant.
    There might be people who have a problem even with those who claim benefits correctly, but don't complain to me about it because I'm not one of them. I'm very glad that we have a benefits system because again, in my previous job, I also came across many people who would have probably either died or ended up resorting to crime if it hadn't been for welfare.

    Also I'm not aware of anyone who's suggested that such people don't even exist.

    Your anecdotes in the last part are insufficient and I'm honestly not interested, soz.
    You're the one who asked me how I know there are people who claim benefits fraudulently, I just told you.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Not really but tryna keep busy, I cooked and went out for a bit, listening to my mum's favourite musician right now there's like 100 songs here I've never heard. The woman is a goddess.

    Tracy Chapman.
    That's good She get in contact?
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    I think the way benefits are reported needs to be split up.

    For a start pensions shouldn't be included in the overall bill because when people think benefits they don't generally think pensioner.

    All work benefits shouldn't be in that overall figure as again it's not what people think of when they think benefits and it highlights the issue of low pay from employers

    All sickness benefits like pip, dla, esa shouldn't be in the overall bill either as they are medically signed off by two different health professionals and it highlights the cost of this if only reported separately and this may bring about more funding to treat these people more appropriately by increasing funding in parts of the nhs for the services they need to get them well enough to work.

    Child benefits again should be reported separately only as nearly everyone with a child gets them if they work or not.

    Jsa is what we should consider benefits as these are people who are able to work and not in employment for one reason or another.

    If this is done and reported correctly as that is really what I am moaning about then it highlights how little is spent on the apparent feckless people compared to the disabled, elderly and in work.

    It highlights where we should spend more money to bring down the bill such as more medical services for those signed off sick.

    It highlights how much benefit fraud there is estimated and how much we spend checking it isn't fraudulently claimed (it's a lot for a small problem)


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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)

    2) I know there's such a thing as paternity - why did I even refer to it if I didn't know what it was? :|
    See this is why this is the last time I'm gonna respond to you, not only are you uninformed and ignorant, you're also annoying and more to the point now you want to b.s. me:

    you said maternity is sexist and never referred to or even mentioned paternity leave?
    If you know it exists why would you stupidly say maternity leave is sexist?

    Jog on you gnat. Don't waste your time responding and embarrass yourself further.


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    My previous post said: "I think people are more annoyed about those who claim benefits fraudulently or inappropriately."

    Not just "those who claim benefits" full stop.



    There might be people who have a problem even with those who claim benefits correctly, but don't complain to me about it because I'm not one of them. I'm very glad that we have a benefits system because again, in my previous job, I also came across many people who would have probably either died or ended up resorting to crime if it hadn't been for welfare.

    Also I'm not aware of anyone who's suggested that such people don't even exist.



    You're the one who asked me how I know there are people who claim benefits fraudulently, I just told you.
    Lol I know you're not aware, I obviously am though. You also made yourself out to be one of those kinds of people in your first post, and clearly there are people who have no idea or care that there are people who genuinely need benefits and don't waste the money, not that it's anyone's business. Why do I know this? Because they keep, including yourself, accusing or only paying attention to those who abuse it, as you call it. Also my op said right there that benefits has been modified constantly, a new form has been introduced in 2013 and many benefits have been terminated like the ones I listed. So it's not easy to abuse at all, because there are people who apparently need it and don't get it, or who get it but not a lot. This conversation just re-consolidates my premise that people have an issue and no clue or care.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    I think the way benefits are reported needs to be split up.

    For a start pensions shouldn't be included in the overall bill because when people think benefits they don't generally think pensioner.

    All work benefits shouldn't be in that overall figure as again it's not what people think of when they think benefits and it highlights the issue of low pay from employers

    All sickness benefits like pip, dla, esa shouldn't be in the overall bill either as they are medically signed off by two different health professionals and it highlights the cost of this if only reported separately and this may bring about more funding to treat these people more appropriately by increasing funding in parts of the nhs for the services they need to get them well enough to work.

    Child benefits again should be reported separately only as nearly everyone with a child gets them if they work or not.

    Jsa is what we should consider benefits as these are people who are able to work and not in employment for one reason or another.

    If this is done and reported correctly as that is really what I am moaning about then it highlights how little is spent on the apparent feckless people compared to the disabled, elderly and in work.

    It highlights where we should spend more money to bring down the bill such as more medical services for those signed off sick.

    It highlights how much benefit fraud there is estimated and how much we spend checking it isn't fraudulently claimed (it's a lot for a small problem)


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    Pensions "shouldn't be" anything because whether people are stupid and generalise benefits as low income scroungers and not as middle classed workers or not, which is my point, pensions still are a form of benefits. Benefits is a dictionary term for, your rights as a human and citizen according to your work and pay. Pensions is a form of benefits, and people need to accept that and stop making nasty generalisations about benefits is my point and why I put it there lmao.

    Anyway whether you realise this or not, you and I kinda agree that benefits aren't just "wasted" on "feckless scroungers," but actually on people on disability and elderly, so....you just repeated what I said pal. :erm:
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    See this is why this is the last time I'm gonna respond to you, not only are you uninformed and ignorant, you're also annoying and more to the point now you want to b.s. me:

    you said maternity is sexist and never referred to or even mentioned paternity leave?
    If you know it exists why would you stupidly say maternity leave is sexist?
    because men don't get as much time off, maybe? :|

    Jog on you gnat.
    jog on you what? :| did you just make up a word? how hipster of you, I guess

    Don't waste your time responding and embarrass yourself further.
    nah, I'll "embarrass" myself if it makes you feel better about your embarrassing life?

    Lol I know you're not aware, I obviously am though. You also made yourself out to be one of those kinds of people in your first post, and clearly there are people who have no idea or care that there are people who genuinely need benefits and don't waste the money, not that it's anyone's business.
    ummm, surely it's the tax-payers' business seeing as they actually pay for these benefits? nah? kidding or you attempting irony/hipsterism again...?

    [Why do I know this? Because they keep, including yourself, accusing or only paying attention to those who abuse it, as you call it.
    any corrupt abuse of public money is an outrage, surely? we go wild when politicians do it, but why can't we respond when citizens do it?

    Also my op said right there that benefits has been modified constantly, a new form has been introduced in 2013 and many benefits have been terminated like the ones I listed. So it's not easy to abuse at all, because there are people who apparently need it and don't get it, or who get it but not a lot. This conversation just re-consolidates my premise that people have an issue and no clue or care.
    okay then
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    You also made yourself out to be one of those kinds of people in your first post
    You misunderstood then.

    and clearly there are people who have no idea or care that there are people who genuinely need benefits and don't waste the money
    If you say so. I don't know why you're still complaining to me about it though, why don't you take it up with them?

    Why do I know this? Because they keep, including yourself, accusing or only paying attention to those who abuse it, as you call it.
    Well, obviously. I don't make an issue of those who use benefits correctly because I don't have a problem with them. Benefit abuse is the problem that needs to be solved, so that's the issue people focus on.
 
 
 
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