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    (Original post by jneill)
    Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were Scottish.
    Not sure Tony Blair was Scottish (both his parents are English). He can claim to be Scottish (by birth) if he wants but he can also claim to be English.

    Ken Livingstone is more Scottish than Blair - his dad was a Scot!!
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Not sure Tony Blair was Scottish (both his parents are English). He can claim to be Scottish (by birth) if he wants but he can also claim to be English.

    Ken Livingstone is more Scottish than Blair - his dad was a Scot!!
    Many people in the UK can claim (or are entitled to claim) various combinations of nationality...

    Not only was he born in Scotland, he also went to Fettes (a posh Scottish school).
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Well sturgeon is part of the Scottish parliament thing. At least she has been elected unlike a Lord...
    Has to be the Westminster Parliament though because the Scottish Parliament is not sovereign. But yeah, she does arguably have more legitimacy than a Lord, particularly the hereditary peers/CoE Bishops.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    If we have learnt anything from the past couple of weeks it is just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it can't happen.

    The point is it's possible.

    After the Referendum the most likely thing was BoJo becoming PM. Among the least likely things at any stage was him being FoSec.
    Haha that's true, I'd never have imagined this would have happened a few weeks ago. How he will perform as FoSec on the other hand... that remains to be seen - especially given the fact he's insulted so many foreign nations. Have you seen the BBC article on it? He made a delightful poem about President Erdogan
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Haha that's true, I'd never have imagined this would have happened a few weeks ago. How he will perform as FoSec on the other hand... that remains to be seen - especially given the fact he's insulted so many foreign nations. Have you seen the BBC article on it? He made a delightful poem about President Erdogan
    Well he is 1/8th Turkish so he has some understanding of the Turkish President.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Has to be the Westminster Parliament though because the Scottish Parliament is not sovereign. But yeah, she does arguably have more legitimacy than a Lord, particularly the hereditary peers/CoE Bishops.
    There really is nothing to stop parliament asking an outsider to be PM - including Sturgeon or, for another example, Richard Branson, or David Beckham, or even you. There's no law against it (although it would be highly unlikely, particularly the last instance ).
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Well he is 1/8th Turkish so he has some understanding of the Turkish President.
    Indeed:

    "There was a young fellow from Ankara
    Who was a terrific ******er
    Till he sowed his wild oats
    With the help of a goat
    But he didn’t even stop to thankera."

    A masterful use of the English language!

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05...y-competition/
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Indeed:

    "There was a young fellow from Ankara
    Who was a terrific ******er
    Till he sowed his wild oats
    With the help of a goat
    But he didn’t even stop to thankera."

    A masterful use of the English language!

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05...y-competition/
    Apart from the first line that sounds rather autobiographical.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    The SNP are the most sinister party in the UK under the facade of socialism. The have ran Scotland into the highest deficit in the whole of Europe. Education is the worst that it has practically ever been for a very long time - with numeracy and literacy rates falling. The NHS in Scotland is slightly worse than that in England. They have a delusional mentality that you can sort structural issues out by throwing more money at it.

    The only thing that keeps them going is that they bang on about Scottish Independence and how everything is Westminster's fault. They are very good at deflecting blame because it is easy to do so with the anti-establishment rhetoric. Yet if Scotland became independent under an SNP-style administration, I could only dare think of the consequences.


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    Can you explain to me how the SNP have caused the deficit in Scotland? The UK Government control the deficit. They set the Scottish budget, and most of the taxes, and if the SNP increase taxes, it increases the budget; so there is literally no way they can deal with the deficit.

    Scotland has the most educated population in Europe.

    And in terms of the NHS, NHS Scotland is performing better than NHS England. A&E waiting times have been better than anywhere else in the UK for I think over a year now, patient satisfaction is higher, have you actually got any evidence for your claim?
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    (Original post by david9640)
    Can you explain to me how the SNP have caused the deficit in Scotland? The UK Government control the deficit. They set the Scottish budget, and most of the taxes, and if the SNP increase taxes, it increases the budget; so there is literally no way they can deal with the deficit.

    Scotland has the most educated population in Europe.

    And in terms of the NHS, NHS Scotland is performing better than NHS England. A&E waiting times have been better than anywhere else in the UK for I think over a year now, patient satisfaction is higher, have you actually got any evidence for your claim?
    The SNP also refuse to change any of the taxes they can, even when they say they're going to

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The SNP also refuse to change any of the taxes they can, even when they say they're going to

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    They completely reformed stamp duty, replacing it with a land and buildings transaction tax...which raised more money.

    They won't alter income tax on top rate payers because the rules on tax avoidance for income tax haven't been devolved, so it would be incredibly easy for higher rate payers to pay a lower rate in England instead.

    They're going to significantly reduce Air Passenger Duty.
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    As an English person I'd be happy if there was a chance for Scotland to run the UK. That way we'd remain a united nation but Scotland would have the chance to rule over the whole nation just as England has ruled over Scotland.

    We'd have free university education, free prescriptions a possible return to the EU, more equality and rights.

    I think the SNP should look towards being a party to rule and represent the whole of the UK, even if that means changing their name.

    I love Scotland and they have every right to rule us as we have ruled them for 300 years and we don't want to loose Scotland.
    Have you considered that England subsidises Scotland and it's free education and prescriptions. If Scotland ruled the entire UK (that doesn't sound very democratic btw) they frankly couldn't afford to hand out all the benefits of being Scottish and payed for by the English to everyone.

    I also don't agree with your idea that we ruled them so it's their turn now, that seems like a stupid and authoritarian game of give-and-take.
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    scotland is like england's disgraceful kid brother - bratty, oafish and ungrateful
    we give them our money and more autonomy and all it does it make them hate us more and more whiny
    clearly the lesson here is to never give scotland anything, ever. we're going the totally wrong direction.
    I used to be a big fan of UK federalism (so more powers to scotland than currently, obviously) but now, after everything they've done, nah. not now.
    but to be fair, if scotland ever went independent, I'd see it like a cancer patient removing a tumour
    and I wouldn't be saying this^ if not for scotland being a ****ing shitheap, the drug-addict capital of europe, the lefty capital of the UK and the place where every other person is probably unemployed or on some kind of benefits - they really need to go through the kind of social evolution that england did. they want the EU for more immigrants into england, obviously, because they hate england, and they want more of what england doesn't like. obviously. why else do scots want the EU? movement? lmao
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    It's no surprise that some people want independence considering the views of some on here towards Scotland.
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    Hell to the noooo!!!
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    Why don't they do a coaltion with sinn fein while we're electing fifth columnists?
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    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    We'd have free university education, free prescriptions a possible return to the EU, more equality and rights.
    The reasons Scotland has free prescriptions and free university education are twofold: public spending granted by the UK Government that is far higher than the national average and by taking money out of other areas. £60 million out of the NHS to fund prescriptions for the middle classes and huge sums re-directed from further education colleges - which importantly educate some of the poorest - are hardly ways to make people more equal.

    What's the end result? Scotland has a widening gap in life expectancy with England, numerous new treatments available on the NHS are not available in Scotland on cost grounds and Scotland has the worst record in the UK of getting people from low-income backgrounds into uni.
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    (Original post by david9640)
    They completely reformed stamp duty, replacing it with a land and buildings transaction tax...which raised more money.
    Stamp Duty in England is pretty much the same as LBTT in Scotland, just with less of a cliff-edge for higher payment. Both moved away from the slab system, a move suggested for decades and long overdue implementation in both jurisdictions. Hardly the stuff of radicalism.

    It's also very peculiar to boast of LBTT raising more than Stamp Duty. This is quite the opposite of what John Swinney promised, saying that the changes would be "revenue neutral" - raising no more or less than the previous system. Instead, it was a tax increase. The obvious impact has been a slow-down in the Scottish residential property market at the higher end.

    They won't alter income tax on top rate payers because the rules on tax avoidance for income tax haven't been devolved, so it would be incredibly easy for higher rate payers to pay a lower rate in England instead.
    The only criterion for paying Scottish income tax is residence. There is no way to "avoid" it beyond criminally declaring a different residence (which would of course be prosecuted by the Scottish Courts at the behest of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in Scotland).

    Indeed, the only way to avoid it is to move house - as many probably would - I'd be interested to see what the Scots Nats think they could do to address that.
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    (Original post by david9640)
    They completely reformed stamp duty, replacing it with a land and buildings transaction tax...which raised more money.

    They won't alter income tax on top rate payers because the rules on tax avoidance for income tax haven't been devolved, so it would be incredibly easy for higher rate payers to pay a lower rate in England instead.

    They're going to significantly reduce Air Passenger Duty.
    They promised to increase the top rate, try don't believe in people actually moving where the income is "earnt"

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    (Original post by L i b)
    Stamp Duty in England is pretty much the same as LBTT in Scotland, just with less of a cliff-edge for higher payment. Both moved away from the slab system, a move suggested for decades and long overdue implementation in both jurisdictions. Hardly the stuff of radicalism.



    The only criterion for paying Scottish income tax is residence. There is no way to "avoid" it beyond criminally declaring a different residence (which would of course be prosecuted by the Scottish Courts at the behest of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in Scotland).

    Indeed, the only way to avoid it is to move house - as many probably would - I'd be interested to see what the Scots Nats think they could do to address that.
    The UK Government followed the Scottish Government's example on Stamp Duty, so that doesn't challenge the point I was making.

    You've just made up something, then provided the full name of the criminal prosecution authority in Scotland to try and make it sound like you're going into detail. If you own two homes, you can choose which one to have as your primary residence for tax purposes. People already take advantage of this to reduce their Capital Gains Tax liability. Accountants regularly advise clients to label the house that they believe will rise in value most as their 'Principle Private Residence' for tax purposes, the same would happen for Income Tax.
 
 
 
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