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British students may be excluded from Erasmus after Brexit Watch

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    I don't see why they need to go spend a year in Europe anyway. Just learn what you need to learn and get your degree. This 'year abroad' stuff just seems like a waste of time and money.

    I feel like more independence and increased freedom for Britain outweighs the small issue of Erasmus.
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    This seems quite bizarre; after all, aren't Turkish universities involved in the Erasmus programme?
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Realistically you are not. Your language degree will not qualify you for any graduate job on the continent. If you achieve fluency at all, you will certainly be able to sell it for more on the British translator market than you will be in a country where all it shows is that you are "almost" as good at communicating as anyone with a high school diploma and have no other distinguishing skills. Imagine you received a CV in the UK with the only demonstrated skill being the ability to speak English. I am fluent in German and it is not worth a Euro Cent to me.

    Anyway, language degrees arrange placement in non-EU countries, and arranged placements in EU countries before the EU. Far more EU people want to learn English than British people want to learn EU languages, so I suspect Erasmus represents a significant net loss to the UK taxpayer, money that can be used to re-fund legitimate uses of educational travel in the British national interest with much to spare.
    Realistically, I will. I'm doing 3 languages, not just one. Aiming to be near fluent in two of them and relatively competent in the third. Should be easy enough to achieve when one of them is a post-A level language, and the second is a beginner language but closely related to both English and my post-A level language... and also if the Erasmus exchange still runs I'll be able to use my language skills a lot better and improve exponentially. The best way to learn a language is through immersion. Language skills will be useful all over the continent, not just in the UK. What do I care anyway, the UK is slowly becoming a laughing stock and I'm getting out.

    Okay then that's fair enough, but which "legitimate uses of educational travel in the British national interest" would you recommend the gov spends money on first?
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    (Original post by abc:))
    But if Switzerland as a state has to pay extra how does this affect the cost for students? Obviously it's a bummer for Switzerland but I don't see how it affects individuals.
    Because the cost is passed onto individuals. Knowing our government, do you honestly believe that they're going to spend anything more than the absolute minimum necessary for a programme like this?
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    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    Realistically, I will. I'm doing 3 languages, not just one. Aiming to be near fluent in two of them and relatively competent in the third. Should be easy enough to achieve when one of them is a post-A level language, and the second is a beginner language but closely related to both English and my post-A level language... and also if the Erasmus exchange still runs I'll be able to use my language skills a lot better and improve exponentially.
    God that is so interesting.

    Language skills will be useful all over the continent, not just in the UK. What do I care anyway, the UK is slowly becoming a laughing stock and I'm getting out.
    Which rather begs the question why on earth the British taxpayer should fund you on this little trip.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    God that is so interesting.



    Which rather begs the question why on earth the British taxpayer should fund you on this little trip.
    Good job I wasn't replying to you then wasn't it.

    Because they've ruined my future so the least they could do would be to give me something to hold on to. But again, I don't care. Thanks for funding my degree and my student loan - unfortunately you wont see any of your money I've taken pumped back into the system.
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    Rather than produce another doom and gloom Brexit thread why don't we wait and see what arrangements are proposed before jumping to conclusions? Some, none or all of Erasmus could be kept. Write to the Education and Brexit departments rather than whinging on here, it'll be more productive.
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    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    Good job I wasn't replying to you then wasn't it.

    Because they've ruined my future so the least they could do would be to give me something to hold on to. But again, I don't care. Thanks for funding my degree and my student loan - unfortunately you wont see any of your money I've taken pumped back into the system.
    I have no confidence that you'll make 21k plus anyway, but yes, I'd certainly strengthen both the loan terms and student finance's capacity to chase repayments.

    Do you not feel a little embarrassed when you harp on about how you've had your future 'ruined' because you wanted to do x and now everyone else is nastily refusing to pay for you to do it? There are so many self-entitled brats ITT it really makes me wonder where modern parenting/ our education system/ society is going wrong.
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    Rather than produce another doom and gloom Brexit thread why don't we wait and see what arrangements are proposed before jumping to conclusions? Some, none or all of Erasmus could be kept. Write to the Education and Brexit departments rather than whinging on here, it'll be more productive.
    I haven't seen a single positive thing to come out of Brexit yet.. So it's not 'doom and gloom', it's just being realistic. Like others have said, in the off-chance that we are excluded, do you reallly think our currrent government is going to cough up the money to fund stuff like this?

    I wrote to my MP on the day after the referendum with my worries about the Erasmus scheme, and I have followed him up since then, and I'm yet to hear back unfortunately. I've tried contacting the education department too and it's like banging against a brick wall. Don't suggest that some of us aren't trying to protect things like this.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I have no confidence that you'll make 21k plus anyway, but yes, I'd certainly strengthen both the loan terms and student finance's capacity to chase repayments.

    Do you not feel a little embarrassed when you harp on about how you've had your future 'ruined' because you wanted to do x and now everyone else is nastily refusing to pay for you to do it? There are so many self-entitled brats ITT it really makes me wonder where modern parenting/ our education system/ society is going wrong.
    Alright, quote me in 5 years time and I'll let you know how much I'm making after I graduate.

    And to be honest, I guess I do feel a little bit embarrassed and I'm totally aware that I'm probably coming across as a little bit over-dramatic. But am I not allowed to be angry at something that I am passionate about? Anyway, I feel more embarrassed for our country that my, and many other young people's opportunities (and I'm not just talking about language students here) could potentially be ruined for the complete wrong reasons - fear of immigration. No matter which way you spin it, that is the most popular reason why people voted to leave. Although I can't see any/don't understand any valid reasons for leaving, immigration definitely was not one of them.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Because the cost is passed onto individuals. Knowing our government, do you honestly believe that they're going to spend anything more than the absolute minimum necessary for a programme like this?
    Haha, no, I absolutely don't think they would - I just don't understand in what form the cost is passed on to individuals. Do Swiss students get smaller grants or have to pay a fee or something?
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    I don't see why they need to go spend a year in Europe anyway. Just learn what you need to learn and get your degree. This 'year abroad' stuff just seems like a waste of time and money.

    I feel like more independence and increased freedom for Britain outweighs the small issue of Erasmus.
    The jobs market is so tough for graduates - just having a degree literally will not cut it. The amount of grads I know with no experience who are doing non-graduate jobs. Erasmus gives you the opportunity to study and work abroad (a lot of people don't realise it also covers work placements) so it gives you a real edge in the jobs market - especially in an increasingly globalised world where experience abroad counts for a lot.

    For example I know a guy who worked at a publishing company in Madrid - it was an internship so very low-paid but he was able to do it because of his Erasmus grant. He's now on a graduate scheme.

    I think a lot of people see it as a fun gap year abroad but it's not
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I'm not sure if they could extradite you but presumably you'd still have family and friends in the UK? I think locking yourself out of a country forever is not a very good idea, you never know what will happen in the future.
    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    Re: Extradition - Surely not if we leave the EU because that would presumably meaning the UK wouldn't be allowed to make use of the European Arrest Warrant?

    And re: family and friends - My immidiate family all want to up sticks and go too. Not to the same place as me unforunately but they still want to leave the UK and move to an EU member state. Unfortunately I'll have to leave friends behind but I'll still be able to talk to them through Facebook or Twitter or whatever is cool in a few years time. I'd like to think I'll just make new friends since I'd be moving to a country were I can speak the language.

    Locking myself out of the UK forever isn't a good idea, you're right. I know it's a stupid idea. But coming from a poor-ish family in a forgotten part of the country, the UK hasn't really done that much for me anyway - and the aftermath of the referendum, the politics, the increase in hate crime, and the belief by those who are deeply racist and xenophobic that their views are now validated by a (miniscule) minority has essentially solidified my opinion that this country will go to ****. And I dont want to be a part of it. Those that voted to leave the EU can deal with it, I'm not.
    They can't extradite you for it because it isn't a criminal offence. At best it is a civil debt they would have to issue proceedings to recover. Going abroad may or may not make a difference - it depends if the country you go to would register and enforce judgment of a UK court for this type of debt. There is a risk they would though - and so going abroad won't actually help you,
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    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    I haven't seen a single positive thing to come out of Brexit yet.. So it's not 'doom and gloom', it's just being realistic. Like others have said, in the off-chance that we are excluded, do you reallly think our currrent government is going to cough up the money to fund stuff like this?

    I wrote to my MP on the day after the referendum with my worries about the Erasmus scheme, and I have followed him up since then, and I'm yet to hear back unfortunately. I've tried contacting the education department too and it's like banging against a brick wall. Don't suggest that some of us aren't trying to protect things like this.
    It's only been one month since the result, these things take much longer to crystallise into policies. That's why I said wait and see. We don't even know for definite when Article 50 will be triggered and formal negotiations can begin.

    Well done for writing to your MP. I'm sure you've noticed that politics has been a bit hectic lately so I'm not surprised you've not had a reply yet.

    While Erasmus is probably the most well known scheme, plenty of students do a year abroad that's not part of Erasmus - my brother spent the third year of his 4-year engineering degree in the US, for example. Countries and universities are free to set up their own arrangements without relying on the EU.

    There are plenty of good things to come out of Brexit - it's not my fault if you choose to ignore them - but I don't want to hijack this thread by steering the conversation away from Erasmus.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I have no confidence that you'll make 21k plus anyway, but yes, I'd certainly strengthen both the loan terms and student finance's capacity to chase repayments.

    Do you not feel a little embarrassed when you harp on about how you've had your future 'ruined' because you wanted to do x and now everyone else is nastily refusing to pay for you to do it? There are so many self-entitled brats ITT it really makes me wonder where modern parenting/ our education system/ society is going wrong.
    You do realise that you can replace x with science or NHS training, right? After all, it's society that invests in scientists' and doctors and their equipment to do scientific and medical research. What if there were cuts to science? Would you say that scientists complaining about it are self-entitled brats too? Just as scientists and doctors benefit societies, I am sure ERASMUS students also do, though on a lower scale.
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    (Original post by Ethereal)
    They can't extradite you for it because it isn't a criminal offence. At best it is a civil debt they would have to issue proceedings to recover. Going abroad may or may not make a difference - it depends if the country you go to would register and enforce judgment of a UK court for this type of debt. There is a risk they would though - and so going abroad won't actually help you,
    Tbh UK govt depts are so incompetent that I wouldn't worry about being found by them(as long as you don't do anything stupid like giving them your address abroad).
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    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    Alright, quote me in 5 years time and I'll let you know how much I'm making after I graduate.

    And to be honest, I guess I do feel a little bit embarrassed and I'm totally aware that I'm probably coming across as a little bit over-dramatic. But am I not allowed to be angry at something that I am passionate about? Anyway, I feel more embarrassed for our country that my, and many other young people's opportunities (and I'm not just talking about language students here) could potentially be ruined for the complete wrong reasons - fear of immigration. No matter which way you spin it, that is the most popular reason why people voted to leave. Although I can't see any/don't understand any valid reasons for leaving, immigration definitely was not one of them.
    Well, fair enough. Yes, you're entitled to be concerned about the potential effects of brexit. I think you underplay other factors but you're right that immigration was a major element in the campaign. I don't personally consider that an illegitimate concern, but that might drag us a little bit off topic.
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    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    If they actually exclude the UK from Erasmus over Freedom of Movement, then I have to say that's incredibly petty. They would essentially be rejecting money from the UK and cutting their own students off from UK universities merely to punish the UK.

    Given that means fewer English-speaking universities available under Erasmus, that definitely hurts the EU as well because English is an important world language that isn't natively spoken by many European nations. Keeping the UK out of the single market without free movement would be one thing, but it seems like they're not willing to let the UK keep any benefits of EU membership without free movement. If this is the tactic they take, there's almost no point in negotiating with them at all. Because this sounds like their attitude is very much all or nothing.
    Why should we benefit from a system we don't pay for? You're under the arrogant impression that foreign universities need us more than we need them. Which is wrong I'm afraid. Most of the Netherlands speaks fluent English, there is no lack of speakers.
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    (Original post by 97Y)
    Why should we benefit from a system we don't pay for?
    I wasn't proposing that the UK stay in Erasmus and pay nothing. I was suggesting that the UK should be allowed to pay into Erasmus and continue receiving the benefits of the program, but without having to accept free movement.

    But obviously, yes, the UK would be paying for that system in order to receive the benefits of it. The EU is saying they won't take the money if it's offered or allow participation simply because the UK is rejecting free movement.
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    (Original post by pizzanomics)
    Good job I wasn't replying to you then wasn't it.

    Because they've ruined my future so the least they could do would be to give me something to hold on to. But again, I don't care. Thanks for funding my degree and my student loan - unfortunately you wont see any of your money I've taken pumped back into the system.
    Miss, I don't wish to be rude but being fluent in 3 languages is nothing to scream about. Better to have another degree and have the languages as a side thing. I never understood why people went to uni to study a language whilst they could just fly to the country and learn there from natives and not pay a penny.. For any language you study at uni there will be another fully bilingual chemistry graduate who can translate better than you, quicker and for less of a price.
 
 
 
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