Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Brexit block: EU official says €25bn debt means UK can’t leave Watch

    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    PRSOM. These people must not even understand the commonwealth. People in their 70s have an excuse, but these people who are harping on about the common wealth are young and fresh out of education. How can they be so ignorant.

    It's honestly brings me down, to know that the ignorant people in our country are the majority.
    Yeah, because India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, Australia, NZ, the Caribbean and many African nations combined, are not more important than the basket-case Eurozone, to be colonized by German banks are they?

    Your ignorance in believing the EU is indispensible, and a progressive cause when it isn't, is shocking.
    • Very Important Poster
    Online

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by BobSausage)
    Please learn to type. I physically struggled to understand what you've written. It's not like you have to type fast, and you can read over it before you send it.

    We didn't really agree when we joined to get into billions of Euros of debt to fund infrastructure of the poorer countries in the EU and bail out other countries like Greece and Spain, who have given us nothing in return. I say we've had enough of it. We're constantly giving and yes official figures now suggest as much as £136 million a week (that's after you subtract what they give us back). Now how is it that we still manage to have a debt to them? £7 billion a year we give them, for 40 years, and more when they demand it for nonsense. So we have 25 billion Euros debt to them? That must mean they have oooh £136 million*52*40 er... £282,800,000,000 debt back to us. Fair? Me thinks not. All this nonsense about us owing them really is just that we owe them negative amounts, we've bailed them out and continued to aimlessly invest without reward. So no. I think it's not quite what we signed up for.
    We agree to pay our share according to the treaties we sign and legislation we approve. We knew what these amounts would be beforehand and how they would be figured out.

    Why do we still owe money? Because budgets and final calculations are complex and always take time to adjust. the story itself is unverified. The UK wont pe paying money it doesnt owe and will expect them to prove it, but if we do, then we should pay. The benefit to the UK has been being part of the EU and the advantageous trading relations we have enjoyed and prospered on. Membership fees have veen a small amount compared to the amount of trade transacted.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BobSausage)
    I was all for staying but the majority of Brits voted against staying, so we're going. I have accepted this and now understand that it's crucial we get the best deals possible. Not paying them 25 bil. would be a good start. As I mean that 25 bil could be spent on funding green projects in the UK not funding for a new motor way in Hungary or a shiny new Ferrari for the leader of the EU (they are massively over payed) . So whilst I was not initially for the Brexit, there is nothing we can do to prevent it, short of over-ruling a democracy, so we might as well accept it and tell them where they can go and shove their '25 bil. debt.

    If you think a penny of that money is going to go into funding for green projects then I am sorry but you are completely delusional. You do know that Theresa May has specifically voted against measures to tackle climate change?

    There's a difference between realistic acceptance and delusion. You've crossed the line I think.

    I also don't see how your views can change so drastically from voting to remain in the EU, to believing the EU to be a corrupt monster.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Ah, so you are not actually British...? Regardless, You have a sneering, poncy little Europrat tone anyhow. I think we'll be fine and won't miss the likes of you, thanks for your concern though, and showing how much you care by willing us to fail...we'll be better off without you who only want us as an offhsore colony to whinge about and try and degrade....sorry didn't work.

    Regarding your thoughts on the commonwealth- I know Europrats have consistently done it down, mostly because it is bigger than anything they ever achieved and more interesting. I think you'll find that the economies of Canada, Hong Kong, India, Singapore and the rest have considerably more clout than the EU.

    Germany is a bigger name than us? Not sure that's true at all, you sound rather biased and er....'butthurt', but I won't lose any sleep whatsoever, and I don't care about being in an authoritarian political union with them, desgined mostly to serve German banks.

    Oh, and by the way, regarding first past the post and PR.

    I'm well aware people vote for individual MP's with PR, but they don't get them, because national results hold sway.

    Link between constituent and representative
    It is generally accepted that a particular advantage of plurality of majoritarian voting systems, such as first-past-the-post, is the geographic link between representatives and their constituents.[2]:36[34]:65[35]:21 PR is criticized because, as its multiple member districts are larger, this link is weakened if not completely lost.



    Typical self-satisified Europrat remainer. People like you can't tolerate Britain's greatness, and you can't take the fact it will be great again.
    We are better of without you and independent. Europe is not a pathway to anything, and it isn't outward looking, the whole derision of the commonwealth and it's enthusiasts pathetic hypocritical chauvinism shows this. Our political traditions and unique history of liberty is superior. We defied the world.
    So either it is great already now, or it's not but will be again. But not both.

    It's too easy to argue with people who are intellectually so inferior and make such blatant errors.

    Makes me all giddy when on top of that that, they are ignorant, little Leave worms.

    ps yea, your history of enslaving and exploiting the biggest part of the world ever. damn son, your history of liberty so real.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    If you think a penny of that money is going to go into funding for green projects then I am sorry but you are completely delusional. You do know that Theresa May has specifically voted against measures to tackle climate change?

    There's a difference between realistic acceptance and delusion. You've crossed the line I think.

    I also don't see how your views can change so drastically from voting to remain in the EU, to believing the EU to be a corrupt monster.
    There is no denying that May is an evil crone, but there is a more than fair chance that the 'Tories will not win a majority in the next election (2020). Oddly enough that is the year when our officially agreed contracts with the EU end. And from that point on is when we will start to get the money we would've put into the EU.

    It is undeniable I am a delusion-ed fool most the time but sometimes that's what it takes to point out the obvious.

    And my views on the EU. Well. The reasons I wanted in were security and economy. Now we've voted to leave that's been screwed over. Our economy has plummeted and there is no economic security. There was never any denying that there are unelected idiots sitting at the top of the chain in the EU council though who have ridiculous sums of money for doing nothing. And whilst that was over-look-able whilst we were secure, with a fair economy, now they want to screw us over for leaving their oh-so-precious union which was draining our economy and reducing their vast paychecks by a little, is it not fair that we point out quite how corrupt the system is. As much as I despise Nigel Farage sometimes he does have a fair point and he did when he stood up in front of the European council and pointed out their corruption.


    It cannot be a bad thing we are leaving the EU, once our economy recovers we will actually have even more money coming into the country.

    But also my point I put across in the other reply was we've payed over 10x the supposed debt into the EU in excess to what we recieve over the 40 years we've been in it (refer to my other comment for the maths).
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BobSausage)
    Please learn to type. I physically struggled to understand what you've written. It's not like you have to type fast, and you can read over it before you send it.

    We didn't really agree when we joined to get into billions of Euros of debt to fund infrastructure of the poorer countries in the EU and bail out other countries like Greece and Spain, who have given us nothing in return. I say we've had enough of it. We're constantly giving and yes official figures now suggest as much as £136 million a week (that's after you subtract what they give us back). Now how is it that we still manage to have a debt to them? £7 billion a year we give them, for 40 years, and more when they demand it for nonsense. So we have 25 billion Euros debt to them? That must mean they have oooh £136 million*52*40 er... £282,800,000,000 debt back to us. Fair? Me thinks not. All this nonsense about us owing them really is just that we owe them negative amounts, we've bailed them out and continued to aimlessly invest without reward. So no. I think it's not quite what we signed up for.
    I could be wrong but I don't think that the poorer countries like Greece and Spain just take the money and never give it back. They pay back with interest.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by venetiaan)
    I could be wrong but I don't think that the poorer countries like Greece and Spain just take the money and never give it back. They pay back with interest.
    Not my understanding. As far as I was informed they give back a tiny amount to the EU. And the amount anyone pays towards the bailout is proportional to the wealth of the country. So we put lots in and don't get much out.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    So either it is great already now, or it's not but will be again. But not both.

    It's too easy to argue with people who are intellectually so inferior and make such blatant errors.

    Makes me all giddy when on top of that that, they are ignorant, little Leave worms.

    ps yea, your history of enslaving and exploiting the biggest part of the world ever. damn son, your history of liberty so real.
    Ah, you're just too intellectually superior to have to bother arguing, and we're all idiots. That sounds very remainish. I said it was great, and will be again outside the EU, having not been within it, and post war. What is not clear about that? All you have is tactics like insulting 'ignorant worms'. You do not like rational facts. The remain campaign behaved the same and it is this entitlement and self-satisfaction that lost them it. You are biased by your ideology, and as you are not British(you still haven't said what country you're from) you hate British independence and success, which you know we achieved vastly more of outside Europe(you may hate this, but it is fact)and think you can insult everyone who wanted to live in an independent country, and defied hysterical, illogical nonsense from people who don't care about our national interests to do so. You typify remain, patronising, conceited BS, insults to anyone who doesn't share your world view, which is fantastically narrow minded.

    And if we're on liberty, well you're talking just the empire there, but we did create the freest and most prosperous colonies on earth, even 60% of Jamaicans recently declared they would still prefer British rule. Every empire behaved badly, and most worse than us. The French colonists, for one. And Germany, Eastern Europe, Italy, Russia? Fascism, totalitarianism, gulags? 20th century European history right there. Please don't take the moral high ground.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Ah, you're just too intellectually superior to have to bother arguing, and we're all idiots. That sounds very remainish. I said it was great, and will be again outside the EU. What is not clear about that? All you have is insult 'ignorant worms'. You do not like rational facts. You are biased by your ideology, and as you are not British(you still haven't said what country you're from) you hate British independence and success, which you know we achieved vastly more of outside Europe(you may hate this, but it is fact)and think you can insult everyone who wanted to live in an independent country, and defied hysterical, illogical nonsense from people who don't care about our national interests to do so. You typify remain, patronising, conceited BS, insults to anyone who doesn't share your world view, which is fantastically narrow minded.

    And if we're on liberty, well you're talking just the empire there, but we did create the freest and most prosperous colonies on earth, even 60% of Jamaicans recently declared they would still prefer British rule. Every empire behaved badly, and most worse than us. The French colonists, for one. And Germany, Eastern Europe, Italy, Russia? Fascism, totalitarianism, gulags? 20th century European history right there. Please don't take the moral high ground.
    No.

    I just happen to "support" the Remain side, because that side is the logical way. And it just so happens that most on the Leave side are ignorant buffoons, that are misguided by lies and propaganda that fit into their *****y world view.

    And you see, now you are just lying. You did not say "was great", you wrote "Britain's greatness". So typical.

    This is turning into such a dig even deeper competition on your part, it's hilarious.

    Why are you also interested in where I am from? Because you think where I am from is giving me an "ideology"? No, as I said above, I just look at logic, and ironically facts, which you accuse me of ignoring. Oh so typical Leave. Your campaign has taken hypocrisy to stratospheric levels. Like calling the Remain world view narrow minded, pure jokes. You are so brainwashed and ignorant, you can't even see a millimeter out of your bubble. And all you do, is accuse the other side of the very same things that you do/think. It's so pathetic, so yes, I am condescending, because there is no other way to treat people so ignorant, bigoted, and hypocritical.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    No.

    I just happen to "support" the Remain side, because that side is the logical way. And it just so happens that most on the Leave side are ignorant buffoons, that are misguided by lies and propaganda that fit into their *****y world view.

    And you see, now you are just lying. You did not say "was great", you wrote "Britain's greatness". So typical.

    This is turning into such a dig even deeper competition on your part, it's hilarious.

    Why are you also interested in where I am from? Because you think where I am from is giving me an "ideology"? No, as I said above, I just look at logic, and ironically facts, which you accuse me of ignoring. Oh so typical Leave. Your campaign has taken hypocrisy to stratospheric levels. Like calling the Remain world view narrow minded, pure jokes. You are so brainwashed and ignorant, you can't even see a millimeter out of your bubble. And all you do, is accuse the other side of the very same things that you do/think. It's so pathetic, so yes, I am condescending, because there is no other way to treat people so ignorant, bigoted, and hypocritical.
    You should take a look at racial attitudes in Eurotopia before you accuse me of bigotry. We have the most mixed marriages in the world. By the way, I didn't vote against a continent or a nation, I voted against an institution, a political union, a distinction remainers fail to recognise, so blinded as they are by the propaganda of mainstream media.

    I don't care about the fact you have your head up your arse and are condescending, and think yourself vastly more intelligent than you are. You lost. Deal with it.

    I was curious where you're from because of your tone, like the worst kind of snotty EU-phile of a certain type that hates the UK. I think you might be French. Do you honestly think that your blatant hatred of the UK if it chooses to be anything other than derided and used to expand the Franco-(though mostly)German empire, as it's offshore colony, will win many people over to your worldview?
    The EU is finished, utterly finished because of people like you, arrogant elites with effectively the same tone, who think of it so highly and refuse to question it, or allow others to, whilst obliterating democracy and showing contempt for their peoples.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    You should take a look at racial attitudes in Eurotopia before you accuse me of bigotry. We have the most mixed marriages in the world. By the way, I didn't vote against a continent or a nation, I voted against an institution, a political union, a distinction remainers fail to recognise, so blinded as they are by the propaganda of mainstream media.

    I don't care about the fact you have your head up your arse and are condescending, and think yourself vastly more intelligent than you are. You lost. Deal with it.

    I was curious where you're from because of your tone, like the worst kind of snotty EU-phile of a certain type that hates the UK. I think you might be French. Do you honestly think that your blatant hatred of the UK if it chooses to be anything other than derided and used to expand the Franco-(though mostly)German empire, as it's offshore colony, will win many people over to your worldview?
    The EU is finished, utterly finished because of people like you, arrogant elites with effectively the same tone, who think of it so highly and refuse to question it, or allow others to, whilst obliterating democracy and showing contempt for their peoples.
    Lol. I didn't lose, I am not British.

    And nope, I am not French. But hey, nice prejudice you are showing once again.

    Oh and, while you and some others may be voting against an institution, many did not. Moreover, just because you dislike an institution, means you have to cut ties this severely with all your neighboring countries? You think everyone in France or Germany or wherever is totally happy with the EU? But you don't see them throw a hissy fit.

    And ironic that you call me arrogant. You come across as much more arrogant. Because my arrogance is based on you being wrong. Your arrogance is based on personal opinion. Which you can't seem to distinguish from fact.

    I'm done wasting my time with someone so pathetic.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    No.

    I just happen to "support" the Remain side, because that side is the logical way. .
    Logical for whom? And why?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    Lol. I didn't lose, I am not British.

    And nope, I am not French. But hey, nice prejudice you are showing once again.

    Oh and, while you and some others may be voting against an institution, many did not. Moreover, just because you dislike an institution, means you have to cut ties this severely with all your neighboring countries? You think everyone in France or Germany or wherever is totally happy with the EU? But you don't see them throw a hissy fit.

    And ironic that you call me arrogant. You come across as much more arrogant. Because my arrogance is based on you being wrong. Your arrogance is based on personal opinion. Which you can't seem to distinguish from fact.

    I'm done wasting my time with someone so pathetic.
    It's not a hissy fit(that would be defined by remainers post-referendum behaviour) it's a democratic vote that remainers were completely happy to partake in when they assumed victory, and now despise since the result. And the French and German people can throw no such 'hissy fit', or democratic vote as I call it(interesting you see it such way), because they are not being given the choice by elites and media that hate them having such choice because it is democracy and the great unwashed plebs might get what they want and not their oh-so superior bureaucratic elites. It shows the nature of the EU, that Farage had to fight that many years to get any choice in this country, and more than half of an entire country wanted it. the situation will be very similar in France, and other EU nations too. It's the exact same paradigm between political classes, media and the public wanting something else, and the EU grants no democracy and no choice and the media and political classes on a gravy train of course support this, when peoples all over Europe don't want it. It's arrogant to be sour losers who throw their toys out of the pram and call everyone bigoted and stupid with no substance, to simply declare themselves superior to everyone and refuse to accept democracy, and to actively despise democracy. All of that is arrogant and shows what kind of political paradigm we were trapped in the last twenty years and within the EU.
    You're still above it all then?

    'And ironic that you call me arrogant. You come across as much more arrogant. Because my arrogance is based on you being wrong. Your arrogance is based on personal opinion. Which you can't seem to distinguish from fact.'

    Ah so, 'you being wrong' isn't a personal opinion? I form a personal opinion based on evidence. You don't get to call the counter arguments to Remains arguments irrelevance a 'fact' because they are viewpoints contrary to your own, or what you think are Europe's interests. You probably think the UK being in the EU is good, for European interests, though you have obvious contempt for it's achievements in the world, and would like to see it's self belief and independence reduced for your benefit, oh great European friend...I think it's bad for British interests. I even think it's very bad for French interests.

    Unelected bureaucrats, secrecy, funding failing economies, supporting the MNC's oligarchy with legislation, aiding the dominance of German banks, the plan for a European Army, Britain being seen as a conduit for US interests in Europe. Protectionist economics, that give higher prices, free movement which pushes wages down and pushes house prices up, and adds to overcrowding. Our hands tied in trading with the rest of the world to get better deals, not to mention give more trade to poorer countries, and more difficulty in exporting beyond Europe for business. Employers not able to take English speaking, talented people from the commonwealth, or the US, or the far-east because EU residents must be prioritized. I don't know where you're from, and you may see it as in your interests, but there are a million and one reasons why it isn't in British interests. If you have a wish for us to be in, fine, but if you call rational counter arguments for British interests in leaving irrelevant in a high handed manner, ull of pathetic petulant insults, whilst proclaiming it idiocy without much in the way of substance or facts, don't expect to win anyone in the UK over. You don't understand our psyche, we won't tolerate that pompompous rubbish and we know we are better than to listen. It's that kind of thing that represents the disconnect. And be honest, it will be in your or your own countries interests, that's why I want to know where you're from. It's dishonest not to admit that your countries interests, Europe's interests, the UK's interests, can all differ.



    You can't distinguish between a legitimate wish for independence, democracy and liberty, and 'bigotry'. You can't accept we can vote in our national interests that might not be your countries interests. The people who say Europe is our family more than anywhere else in the world fail to explain why. I think many Europeans like yourself show contempt for the UK. Many from the commonwealth are patriots. The commonwealth does add up to far more than Europe politically and economically, whether you like that or not.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06...ul-prejudices/

    Take a read.

    "This is now the key Remain outlook: where We, being clever, have considered all the facts, They, being dim, are howling and emoting rather than thinking things through. I wouldn’t mind so much if this was an original prejudice, but it isn’t. It’s the view that has informed every elite feeling of agitation with the expansion of democracy, from the claim that women were too emotional to have the vote to Arianna Huffington’s screed against the American electorate’s ‘inner baby’ and the ‘millions of voters’ who now make political decisions with their ‘more emotional right brain’. This snobbery now finds expression in the Remain camp, in its fury with howling voters, in its conviction that the issue of the EU is ‘much too difficult and detailed to be left to voters who know no economics’, in the words of Richard Dawkins. On the EU, the public is ‘wrong about nearly everything’, says the Independent.

    As part of this sneering at the emotional public and their sewer-like minds, certain constituencies are being singled out for special ridicule. The old, for example. The ageism of the Remain side has been astonishing. They have depicted older people, who are far more likely than the young to be anti-EU, as selfish and uncaring, as ‘stubborn’, that classic ageist prejudice. A pro-EU columnist for GQ even suggests that they should be banned from voting, because this ‘grey army’ is obsessed with returning to ‘an idealised Britain that never was’. Hipster bible Vice, predictably pro-EU, rages against anti-social old voters ‘who took all the cream and now want to put a cap on the thin milk they left behind’.

    And then there’s the white working classes, such a terrible disappointment to the well-to-do leftists of the Remain side. Surveys consistently show that around 60 percent of those in the two lower social classes want to leave the EU. Barely a day passes without an anthropological-style article in the Guardian trying to work out why these voters are so fearful and angry and emotional (they can’t possibly be rationally anti-EU). Toynbee slammed these people, with their ‘crap jobs’ and their tendency to say ‘**** off Europe’, and their temerity to reject the ‘facts’ of Polly and her band of ‘eager young London graduates’. Seriously, can these people hear themselves?

    This is the terrible irony of Remainers’ handwringing over the poisoning of public debate: they have played a major part in said poisoning, in stirring up prejudice against the allegedly dim, the overemotional, the confused, the old, the plebs, the howling, brainless throng. How can they pontificate about hatred while communicating some pretty hateful views of their own? Simple: because their kind of hatred is so longstanding, so entrenched in certain political and media circles, that they don’t even think of it as hatred. It’s just reality, right, this situation where we clever people must endure the howls of those politically uninformed people? The chutzpah of it: under the guise of taking a stand against prejudice, Remainers are resuscitating one of the oldest prejudices."

    Oh, and this

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/v...less-snobbery/
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: August 6, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.