The Unofficial TSR Libertarian Party

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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    Its blatantly obvious that there has been no Libertarian party for a while - after reading this. Its important to understand that Libertarianism is a fairly large spectrum, ranging from the moderate left to the moderate right, and most certainly including centrists with a few right-leanings like myself. In fact, there are people in your current parties, respectively, that identify much more with libertarianism then with their current party.

    Look at Ron Paul. He has been in the Republican party for a long time, even though he is much more of a Libertarian than every conservative republican around him.

    What differentiates me from conservatives? The inherent love for individual freedom and the positions that not many conservatives (in real life at least) would accept. Including the right to prostitution and looser gun laws. The fact that you got a bill passed on the legalization of LSD is owed to the libertarian leanings of the respective supporters on that particular issue, and nothing else.
    Actually I remember the Libertarians have worked with them here for years and generally got on very well. They were an intellectual powerhouse with brilliant ideas and detailed proposals which you couldn't help but admire even when you disagreed. But they were always, as the name suggested, at the extreme liberal end of the spectrum, and you seem to understand that's what libertarianism is about too - as you state in your OP, "every human can and should govern himself as long as he does not harm others." So I ask again - under this mantra, why should the state intervene to stop me from taking drugs?
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    Its blatantly obvious that there has been no Libertarian party for a while - after reading this. Its important to understand that Libertarianism is a fairly large spectrum, ranging from the moderate left to the moderate right, and most certainly including centrists with a few right-leanings like myself. In fact, there are people in your current parties, respectively, that identify much more with libertarianism then with their current party.

    Look at Ron Paul. He has been in the Republican party for a long time, even though he is much more of a Libertarian than every conservative republican around him.

    What differentiates me from conservatives? The inherent love for individual freedom and the positions that not many conservatives (in real life at least) would accept. Including the right to prostitution and looser gun laws. The fact that you got a bill passed on the legalization of LSD is owed to the libertarian leanings of the respective supporters on that particular issue, and nothing else. RayApparently Who says the new libertarian party would have voted against something like this? I dont plan on being a one man party.
    From what I've seen so far, at least from you, I'd say I'm more socially liberal than you. You seem to be a neo-liberal with cherry picked liberal social policies. If you believe in the freedom of the individual, you should believe in their right to consume drugs. If you're a true liberal, you'd believe in Kant's argument for equal moral worth and the "luck of birth", justifications for uncontrolled, open and mass immigration rather than controlled immigration.

    If you're going to form a Libertarian Party, make sure it is Libertarian on absolutely all fronts (even fronts I disagree on like guns) so it is truly distinct from my party or the Tories. Otherwise, half of your potential members should join the liberals and the other half the Tories.

    Be unique, radical and distinct.


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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    Its blatantly obvious that there has been no Libertarian party for a while - after reading this. Its important to understand that Libertarianism is a fairly large spectrum, ranging from the moderate left to the moderate right, and most certainly including centrists with a few right-leanings like myself. In fact, there are people in your current parties, respectively, that identify much more with libertarianism then with their current party.

    Look at Ron Paul. He has been in the Republican party for a long time, even though he is much more of a Libertarian than every conservative republican around him.

    What differentiates me from conservatives? The inherent love for individual freedom and the positions that not many conservatives (in real life at least) would accept. Including the right to prostitution and looser gun laws. The fact that you got a bill passed on the legalization of LSD is owed to the libertarian leanings of the respective supporters on that particular issue, and nothing else. RayApparently Who says the new libertarian party would have voted against something like this? I dont plan on being a one man party.
    Don't fly the libertarian banner if you're not a libertarian. My party has done fantastic things for the libertarian cause - many of those with my direct involvement. I was here when there was a Libertarian Party, and my party did the things that party couldn't do after they closed. I don't need a lecture on the ideology.

    I'd expect a future Libertarian Party would vote in favour of our reforms (which included more than just LSD). But you, as a prospective MP arguing that there's some vacuum of libertarianism that you need to fill, have just said that you wouldn't.
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    A libertarian party here would certainly have my support and although I see why some people are doubting it, they should remember that this is a democracy where all ideas must be acknowledged and the libertarian voice is a different voice. I believe that this can be a successful organisation and with the right members it has a bright future, I for one would be interested and if anything I believe that adding the libertarians would allow for the entire house to improve as we have more ideas to debate.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Actually I remember the Libertarians have worked with them here for years and generally got on very well. They were an intellectual powerhouse with brilliant ideas and detailed proposals which you couldn't help but admire even when you disagreed. But they were always, as the name suggested, at the extreme liberal end of the spectrum, and you seem to understand that's what libertarianism is about too - as you state in your OP, "every human can and should govern himself as long as he does not harm others." So I ask again - under this mantra, why should the state intervene to stop me from taking drugs?
    Because hard drugs, such as LSD and cocaine make people prone to violent impulses, as far as Im concerned. Marijuana does not do this. This would collide with the principle "do whatever you like as long as you dont harm others"
    If I'm wrong I will happily re-evalute my stance on this.

    Well, liberals are in fact more authoritarian than libertarians, which is why there is a huge difference between them. Furthermore there liberals are almost exclusively on the left of the political spectrum.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Don't fly the libertarian banner if you're not a libertarian. My party has done fantastic things for the libertarian cause - many of those with my direct involvement. I was here when there was a Libertarian Party, and my party did the things that party couldn't do after they closed. I don't need a lecture on the ideology.

    I'd expect a future Libertarian Party would vote in favour of our reforms (which included more than just LSD). But you, as a prospective MP arguing that there's some vacuum of libertarianism that you need to fill, have just said that you wouldn't.
    In all honestly I believe that socially the libertarians ans labour would be best friends. I pretty much vote for all labour policies bow as they are sensible
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    In all honestly I believe that socially the libertarians ans labour would be best friends. I pretty much vote for all labour policies bow as they are sensible
    Many of them are just in the wrong party. But just like in reallife you go for the second best runner up.

    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Don't fly the libertarian banner if you're not a libertarian. My party has done fantastic things for the libertarian cause - many of those with my direct involvement. I was here when there was a Libertarian Party, and my party did the things that party couldn't do after they closed. I don't need a lecture on the ideology.I'd expect a future Libertarian Party would vote in favour of our reforms (which included more than just LSD). But you, as a prospective MP arguing that there's some vacuum of libertarianism that you need to fill, have just said that you wouldn't.
    However, I find it remarkable that a Labour MP talks about libertarianism when they are the ones advocating for bigger government and more restrictions on personal freedoms like the right to bear arms.

    Advancing the libertarian cause? Hardly.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    In all honestly I believe that socially the libertarians ans labour would be best friends. I pretty much vote for all labour policies bow as they are sensible
    I'd be very happy to work with a Libertarian Party in the future, as long as it was able to compromise on economics - Labour's economic plan will almost always involve intervention. We could throw together some worker's cooperatives though. Hurrah for economic democratisation!
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'd be very happy to work with a Libertarian Party in the future, as long as it was able to compromise on economics - Labour's economic plan will almost always involve intervention. We could throw together some worker's cooperatives though. Hurrah for economic democratisation!
    Well as a Libertarian Socialist myself, I'm all for some cooperatives
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    Because hard drugs, such as LSD and cocaine make people prone to violent impulses, as far as Im concerned. Marijuana does not do this. This would collide with the principle "do whatever you like as long as you dont harm others"
    If I'm wrong I will happily re-evalute my stance on this.

    Well, liberals are in fact more authoritarian than libertarians, which is why there is a huge difference between them. Furthermore there liberals are almost exclusively on the left of the political spectrum.
    The Liberals on TSR are probably akin to Orange-book Lib Dems atm.

    We're Centrists, with more right of centre than left of centre members right now.

    You should also probably have a look at our manifesto from the last election


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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    However, I find it remarkable that a Labour MP talks about libertarianism when they are the ones advocating for bigger government and more restrictions on personal freedoms like the right to bear arms.

    Advancing the libertarian cause? Hardly.
    If you edit your post to quote me it won't notify me.

    Social libertarianism. Not economic. Big corporations that treat their workers like crap don't make the people we represent more free. So we regulate. Not being able to access healthcare and education doesn't make you free. So the state provides it. Not being able to feed your family or pay your rent when you hit upon hard times or become disabled doesn't make you free. So we have a system of welfare. The government that serves the people rather than rules them, frees them from other powerful bodies (like oligarchs, corporate elites and foreign powers).

    TSR Labour promoted drugs legalisation. Labour gave prisoners the right to vote (a historic human rights victory). Labour democratised the electoral system giving more power to the people. And you throw 'gun control' and a vague nothing-statement like 'bigger government' at me? A blatantly ridiculous argument. And by the way, I have never called for more restrictions on the right to bear arms. I am generally happy with the status quo.

    You're not a 'libertarian' because you want more people to have more more guns. You're a libertarian for supporting individual human rights and freedoms in every facet of their lives.
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    WoopWoop!

    I'm in, as you know!
    Looking forward to this project!
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    (Original post by cBay)
    Well as a Libertarian Socialist myself, I'm all for some cooperatives
    :woo:

    Time to expand the project ol' pal?

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3580517
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    Bored of new parties that turn up out of nowhere, cause a big stir and quickly die.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    :woo:

    Time to expand the project ol' pal?

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3580517
    Ah go on then, I'll be away from MHoC for a few weeks but once I'm back I have a couple of ideas I can throw your way to see what you think

    I always wondered who was responsible for those couple of Cooperative bills way back then, it was one of the reasons I joined Labour at the time, but of course you had gone off to be the Speaker by then :P
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    (Original post by cBay)
    Ah go on then, I'll be away from MHoC for a few weeks but once I'm back I have a couple of ideas I can throw your way to see what you think

    I always wondered who was responsible for those couple of Cooperative bills way back then, it was one of the reasons I joined Labour at the time, but of course you had gone off to be the Speaker by then :P
    Nice.

    I can't even remember who first proposed that one. I remember getting involved in the discussion and being excited by the policy. Yeah I was surprised to see posts by you in the sub-forum, I'd forgotten you'd once been one of us.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Nice.

    I can't even remember who first proposed that one. I remember getting involved in the discussion and being excited by the policy. Yeah I was surprised to see posts by you in the sub-forum, I'd forgotten you'd once been one of us.
    I think it was United but he also did a disappearing act soon after I joined :P
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    (Original post by cBay)
    I think it was United but he also did a disappearing act soon after I joined :P
    That makes sense, and yes he did haha
    Shame that - nice chap.
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    Well it really is up to you. We can give it a try or choke it off.

    Even though the issues and topics are serious, this is after all a hobby project.


    Getting blasted in the first thread about this party might be a good batptism of fire, and fair game, but it will take time for a party to establish itsself.
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    I'd only support this if their was a complete ban on dual membership, if they were forbidden from contesting a general election for 6 months after their creation and if they were subject to rollingly monthly reviews with a zero chances system whereby a month without even multiple bill production would render them killed off by the speaker.

    Basically i want it to be hard for them so that they have to prove themselves rather than coast for a while or become a shill party.

    FYI though, Nige is not a libertarian.
 
 
 
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