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Should trans people be allowed to receive free reassignment surgery on the NHS? Watch

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    Yes; the evidence shows it works in alleviating gender dysmorphia.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Are you a mental health professional? If not, then how can you make the claim that gender dysphoria cannot be cured by surgery?

    Also, wanting gender reassignment surgery is not a "symptom" of gender dysphoria. Is wanting to be happy a symptom of depression? No. Constantly being sad is.

    You're making a ridiculous comparison to schizophrenia. To even compare transgenderism with wanting to be a mouse shows you don't have a clue what you're on about.
    What is the biological mechanism for gender dysphoria, could electroyte therapy help cure their misplaced sense of gender.
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    Wait, so the cost of gender reasignment to the NHS England this year is only £23mil? When the budget for NHS England is £107bn...
    That is 0.03% of the NHS Englands budget that people are getting pissy over because it is deemed unnecessary or "cosmetic".
    I'll tell you something that is even more unnecessary; the £3.5BN cost to the NHS England from alcohol related problems (in 2014). Which is over 3% of the NHs Englands budget.
    If people are arguing against it on accountancy terms, surely all costs from alcohol abuse should be paid for by the abusers, as that is actually something that is completely preventable.

    What is obvious (and actually quite sad to see) in this thread, is that people who have a problem with trans people are using accountancy as a reason to discriminate against trans people. And as the figures show, it's a complete mute point.

    If you want to discriminate against trans people then fine, but don't you dare try to pretend it's because of fiscal reasons, when it is 100% due to your intolerance towards trans people..

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...9tMFmPKU78HHFQ

    https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/he...cs-on-alcohol/

    http://www.itv.com/news/2015-10-29/t...v-news-learns/
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    (Original post by BRONZEMEDAL1)
    What is the biological mechanism for gender dysphoria, could electroyte therapy help cure their misplaced sense of gender.
    That's a form of conversion therapy AFAIK, and it's inhumane.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    That's hardly the same, but let's break it down for the sake of it.

    1- are there a significant number of people suffering because they feel this way? If yes, there should be a treatment of sort- so this applies to both.
    So because it's a rare occurrence, it should be ignored?
    2- what is the diagnosis? Gender dysmorphia is a widely recognised condition. Wanting to be a cat sounds like a different kind of mental health condition, the likes of which are ruled out in the assessment of a trans person.
    so before gender dysmorphia was formally diagnosed, you believe that it should have been ignored?
    3- what is an appropriate solution? Becoming cat-like does not enable someone to fit in with society and carry on functioning, whereas transitioning does. Not all trans people want surgery, and they often have to wait a long time for it, so it is not taken lightly.
    Both would be treated by the NHS, but not in the same way as it is not appropriate.
    Perhaps they don't want to fit in society? How does it mean that they cannot function? Cats function just fine. gender reassignment surgery is taken far more lightly than cancer treatment..
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    No - being trans may not be a choice but having reassignment surgery is.
    Having cancer may not be a choice but having chemotherapy is.


    Being cis may not be a choice but being transphobic is.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I'd say:
    An option for it to be on the NHS if it can be shown that not having the surgery would lead to a significant drop in quality of life...

    But only for over 18s. I'm sick of seeing young children being given hormones. At 8/9/10 you are simply too young to know what you will want to be in the future.
    Hormones can delay puberty and give the child time to decide. Pre-puberty, suicide rates are lower as the person has not been forced to grow into a body that they do not identify with.
    This causes no long term damage to the person, and normal puberty begins if they choose to stop taking the hormones.
    It gives them time to decide.
    Surgery is not usually, if ever, an option for someone pre-puberty- and the hormones are not transitional, as they have not actually developed the body of their gender.
    I studied this with someone who works for a prominent trans charity, and he was massively in favour of letting children delay their puberty if they strongly believed that they were trans.
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    That's like saying, "should the NHS fund cosmetic surgery?" Which is an obvious no. It's exactly the same scenario as this: "I'm not happy with the way I look so the taxpayer has to pay for me to get cosmetic surgery." Being trans doesn't make them automatically entitled to free plastic surgery at the cost of everyone else.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So because it's a rare occurrence, it should be ignored?
    so before gender dysmorphia was formally diagnosed, you believe that it should have been ignored?

    Perhaps they don't want to fit in society? How does it mean that they cannot function? Cats function just fine. gender reassignment surgery is taken far more lightly than cancer treatment..
    No, and I said that both conditions should be treated. The NHS gives more money to things which are more prevalent, and will have a greater impact.

    It does not need a formal diagnosis to exist, however that is what we have nowadays. Rightly or wrongly, we categorise people to give them appropriate treatment. Wanting to be a cat would not fall under the same category.

    Since when was gender reassignment taken more likely than cancer treatment? That seems like an unfounded assertion.
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    (Original post by BRONZEMEDAL1)
    What is the biological mechanism for gender dysphoria, could electroyte therapy help cure their misplaced sense of gender.
    An interesting point. As with many non-physical illnesses, I don't believe a mechanism has been found. Until then, we must rely on current evidence for what works and does not. I dare say more ideas are being tried.
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    (Original post by BobSausage)
    But then again people believe it's their right to smoke their lives away and expect the tax payer to pay for it on the NHS why shouldn't trans people have the same right to treatment to change their physical gender?
    As for calling it a disorder? That's like saying religion or education is a disorder, it's blatantly trans-phobic and wrong. It's people who can't accept people who are different who have disorders.
    Personally I disagree. And tbh people who smoke might get life threatening diseases which should be cured. And yes, gender dysphoria is a disorder. That's a fact.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    That's like saying, "should the NHS fund cosmetic surgery?" Which is an obvious no. It's exactly the same scenario as this: "I'm not happy with the way I look so the taxpayer has to pay for me to get cosmetic surgery." Being trans doesn't make them automatically entitled to free plastic surgery at the cost of everyone else.
    Please expand-

    If surgery reduces negative outcomes for trans people, is it still cosmetic?

    By negative outcomes, I mean mental illnesses such as suicide and eating disorders.

    We accept that being trans is not a choice, yes? So what treatment do we offer?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    As you said yourself, not every trans person will want surgery, which means that there is more than one solution to ease their symptoms.
    Attachment 569786Have you not read stories about people who have transitioned yet still commit suicide?
    As you say, everyone is different- so I presume we are talking about those who do feel surgery is the solution for them. Just like not one treatment cures all depression, for example.

    Again, it is far less common. We cannot expect 100% of people to benefit from any treatment of any condition.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    So because it's a rare occurrence, it should be ignored?
    so before gender dysmorphia was formally diagnosed, you believe that it should have been ignored?

    Perhaps they don't want to fit in society? How does it mean that they cannot function? Cats function just fine. gender reassignment surgery is taken far more lightly than cancer treatment..
    Your ignorance on the subject has been thoroughly exposed in this post. Learn the difference between species dysphoria and gender dysphoria before making childish comparisons.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    As you say, everyone is different- so I presume we are talking about those who do feel surgery is the solution for them. Just like not one treatment cures all depression, for example.

    Again, it is far less common. We cannot expect 100% of people to benefit from any treatment of any condition.
    And some people may feel that surgery to look like a cat is the solution for them. That's fine if that's what they want, but they shouldn't expect it for free. Densitry isn't free yet cosmetic surgery should be? Should boob jobs be free too?
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    No chance.
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    (Original post by Ezme39)
    Please expand-

    If surgery reduces negative outcomes for trans people, is it still cosmetic?

    By negative outcomes, I mean mental illnesses such as suicide and eating disorders.

    We accept that being trans is not a choice, yes? So what treatment do we offer?
    If boob jobs reduce negative outcomes for flat chested people, is it still cosmetic?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    And some people may feel that surgery to look like a cat is the solution for them. That's fine if that's what they want, but they shouldn't expect it for free. Densitry isn't free yet cosmetic surgery should be? Should boob jobs be free too?
    Emergency, life-threatening dentistry would be. And being suicidal is by its own nature life threatening.

    So let's say, there is evidence that becoming a cat led to significantly more positive outcomes- and other mental illnesses with their own successful treatments were ruled out. And let's say there were a sector of society large enough to warrant NHS investment in this particular treatment. Maybe then we would return to that point.

    A trans person doesn't walk in and go 'today I want surgery'. They are referred to be mentally assessed; they talk about their options to a professional; years pass in between. It is not as flippant as you appear to describe it.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Having cancer may not be a choice but having chemotherapy is.


    Being cis may not be a choice but being transphobic is.
    Conflating being transgender with having an illness, how transphobic.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If boob jobs reduce negative outcomes for flat chested people, is it still cosmetic?
    A very good question, and actually also a debated point.
    If we're considering the same level of negative outcomes, and no alternative counselling were appropriate or indicated by evidence - I wonder whether this mental distress would warrant surgery.
 
 
 
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