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Parents who force vegan diets on their kids face jail time under new Italian law Watch

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    Okay right I'm going to make a list of vegan kids dishes just to show that it's not all fruits and salads!!!!!!
    • baked beans on toast with Flora vegan butter and Heinz ketchup
    • oven chips (bonus points if you make your own chips and fry them and stuff) and a bean burger with a burger bun, lettuce/tomato/pickles etc
    • normal pasta with vegan pesto (not too expensive and very tasty), or homemade tomato sauce with onion, garlic and (optional) vegetables
    • rice and a chickpea curry (if they're older, it can be spicy)
    • lentils cooked in a tomatoey sauce on crunchy bread
    • stewed vegetables in a tomatoey sauce like a ratatouille - aubergine is so tender and yummy!!!
    • spaghetti bolognese with Quorn or tofu
    • vegetable lasagne with a vegan cheese sauce (that exists)
    • vegan mac and cheese - to get the cheese, you grind up cashew nuts and soak them overnight and it turns into this creamy sauce!!!!
    • cashew nut cheese on nachos with avo guac mmMMMMmmm
    • PIZZA is a staple meal, and whilst it has to be homemade it can have vegan cheese or you can bypass that and add vegetables or rocket or sweetcorn or pineapple or whatever stuff you want - making pizza with kids is the most fun thing because you can knead it and flip it and be a really cute family whilst doing it!!!!!! love that!!!
    • tomato soup out of a can (Heinz are my no.1), vegetable soup (check labels), most soups actually...
    I was brought up vegetarian and so I have no idea what normal kids meals look like but those ^^^^ seem like fairly okay alternatives for parents who don't want to cause their kids to suffer... Vegans aren't an incurable evil, and veganism isn't a disease. Lots of people do it because they care about their environment and want to involve the people they love in their beliefs. My parents always gave me the option to give up vegetarianism, but since I'd always known it that way, I wasn't fussed.

    Vegan kids brought up in that way aren't bullied into it by their parents, they're just brought up in the same way many kids who were brought up Christian/Mormon/Jewish remain religious until they're older, but equally many don't. If a kid gets kicked out because they don't want to be Christian anymore, we call the parents idiots for their beliefs, we don't tar all Christians with that brush. If a non-vegan kid is kicked out by vegan parents (which I've never actually heard happen...) we blame the veganism? Where is the logic here?!
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    What an absurd proposal.

    Ironic how the usual right-wing libertarians of TSR are condoning totalitarianism.
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    (Original post by ZeroFree)
    Why, on both of those points?

    A diet is inadequate if it does not provide the body with the vitamins, proteins, etc, that it needs.

    What makes vegans inadequate people?
    I just don't think vegans aren't trustworthy . And most are pompous asses.**
    *
    (Original post by topkart)
    What a stupid law.

    Whats wrong with bringing your children up on a HEALTHY vegan diet.

    Should parent who force a meat eating diet be prosecuted as well?
    Obviously not because eating meat is normal, for normal people.
    * *Vegans are just weird. *
    (Original post by topkart)
    Is that why vegans are more likely to live longer than people who eat meat.

    ffs do you even logic?

    Listen just because yu don't like someones reasons for a diet it doesn't mean that the diet itself is inadequate. You idiot.
    That's what they *want *you to think. And it is entirely inadequate. A vegan diet lacks meat, children should grow up with meat as part of a healthy diet. They shouldn't have their parents ridiculous vegan beliefs shoved down their throats from an early age, or be brainwashed to believe that being vegan is normal. It's not. *
    (Original post by greatguy903)
    All of you are absolute morons.
    Trololol

    *
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Are they locking up people who over feed their kids on a diet of sugar and crap?
    *

    They should, but first let's concentrate on the evil vegans.*
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    I just don't think vegans aren't trustworthy . And most are pompous asses.**
    *

    Obviously not because eating meat is normal, for normal people.
    * *Vegans are just weird. *


    That's what they *want *you to think. And it is entirely inadequate. A vegan diet lacks meat, children should grow up with meat as part of a healthy diet. They shouldn't have their parents ridiculous vegan beliefs shoved down their throats from an early age, or be brainwashed to believe that being vegan is normal. It's not. *

    Trololol

    * *

    They should, but first let's concentrate on the evil vegans.*
    you're a troll. And not a very good one at that.


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    (Original post by loveleest)
    Lol. The way I see this is like forcing religion on your child.

    Both are wrong x
    if its healthy how is it wrong?

    Who are you to tell someone what way to bring up their children if it doesn't affect the childs health?

    Your attitude is 'Bring your child up the way I want or you're are wrong and deserve to be imprisoned.'

    Hooligan. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    I'm completely happy with this - as long as it is extended to religion. -poker face-
    Holler that. Enjoy the rep.
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    Like swervybang said before, what does forced mean here? Do parents who are vegans have to buy meat for their kids? Why don't kids just eat what their parents give them until they become adults- then they can buy whatever food they want. As my dad would say (he's not vegan though): "my house, my rules".
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    (Original post by blue2337)
    Hey, it's cool that you're actually asking a valid question rather than slating vegans or vegetarians without any knowledge of their diets. In the most genuine way, thank you for asking this question.

    Any diet is all about balance, right? It's what the Greeks prioritised in their medicine - Hippocrates (famous doctor-man, Father of Modern Medicine, no big deal) would treat his patients through 'controlled diet and exercise'. They even erected a bunch of buildings dedicated to bathing people and getting them exercised to try and cure their ills! I mean... they then left them in a room with a bunch of hallucinogenic drugs so the patients dreamed they were being cured by a God and his two daughters whilst priests rubbed snake venom in their eyes... where was I going with this?

    Balance, okay got it. If you look at the food pyramid/food pie chart/whatever easy way the food groups can be presented, you'll notice that it comprises of several sections right? On the government website of stuff I found this (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ide_colour.pdf) which has the different groups: fruit and veg, carbs, oil, dairy and protein. On there, there's obviously a ton of non-vegan products, but I can hopefully go through each section with you so you can see the variety available to vegans, and to any child/adult on a vegan diet.

    Fruit and veg: I think this one is pretty self explanatory... (hopefully), vegans can have pretty much any fruit or veg, although some would prefer eating fruit in season to reduce the impact on the environment, but the world is our (vegan) oyster as far as veg is concerned.

    Carbs: pretty much every type of carb on that chart is vegan! I regularly eat pasta with vegan pesto, mashed potatoes with Flora vegan butter, bread (checking the ingredients, some have sneaky milk in them), bagels are vegan, couscous with chickpeas or veg oh my, sweet potatoes and baked potatoes with Heinz beans!, special K cereal... as long as you check the label and sometimes swap around bits and pieces, you can get all the carbs your body needs without animals suffering.

    Oils: olive oil is all cool and groovy, but the problem would be "butter"; 10 or so years ago vegans would be utterly screwed, but due to the benefits of having a population becoming more aware of our environmental impact/the fact that being vegan is "trendy", Flora have released their dairy free butter and it's AMAZING. Literally none of my friends can tell the difference until I tell them! That butter can be put on toast, mashed potato, cookery and baking... it's wonderful.

    Dairy: okay on that pie chart admittedly there's only one type of dairy listed (soya milk), but there's other things like almond milk which is low calorie and super yummy which you can have on cereal! There are alternative cheeses too and some of them are actually alright... dairy would be my only concern when raising a kid vegan, but if you carefully monitored their food for a little bit, you'd realise that there's actually a lot of calcium in things that you didn't realise: a glass of soya milk has basically all the calcium in it, tofu, loads of greens like spinach cabbage and rocket, ORANGES, and more. However, I'd recommend taking a calcium supplement just to be sure #take ur vitamins! Calcium fortified cereal like special K is also a really excellent source. You say "kids are supposed to drink milk" but we were supposed to drink our mothers' milk, not the milk made for baby cows? Are our kids baby cows? I mean... I don't judge... but seriously, a baby will get their vitamins/minerals from those baby formulae, they exist for the sole reason of giving babies what they might not get in their mothers' milk, and once the kid is old enough to get their daily calcium dose from other sources - a bowl of special K or anything for breakfast with soya milk would be pretty much enough! - they will be absolutely fine. There are now soya yoghurts, soya chocolate milk, vegan milk chocolate (I'm bleeding out my uterus right now and I'm scoffing down a ton of the vegan Dairy Milk, it's fantastic) and SOYA ICE CREAM COVERED WITH MELTED VEGAN CHOCOLATE AND CHOPPED UP OREOS. Whoever said vegans were healthy is so, so wrong...

    Protein: "uh muh GAWD where do you get your PROTEIN from?!" is the question asked by meat-eaters who don't quite get how vegan diets work. From the items listed on the pie chart in the "meat" section, 4/10 (or 2/5 if you like your simplified fractions) are vegan: lentils, beans/baked beans, chickpeas and nuts. Heck, almonds have a huge amount of calcium AND protein?! Granted, a lot of the foods there are more "sophisticated", but if a kid grows up with quinoa (which is tasty and protein full by the way), they'll like it and they'll get used to it. Also, there are a load of chickpea and black bean burgers so if they wanted, they could live off ketchup and vegan proteiny burgers if they wanted! Vegan cooking doesn't have to require effort, just heating up an oven and shoving in some oven chips and a burger.

    For junk food, I've already mentioned ice cream, burgers, oreos and vegan chocolate. There are also Pringles, party rings, custard, curries, digestive biscuits, rich teas, some brands of bourbons, vodka (less suited to kids though) and a million other ways I cope with periods. Seriously, I'm spoiled for choice, and if you do veganism right, so will the kids.

    If you're an a-hole and just feed your kids lettuce and tomato salad for every meal, your kids will grow up sick and deficient not because of their vegan diet but because you're a terrible parent.
    Thank you for the detailed reply!
    I'm a vegeterian myself so I understand that most things can be replaced. However that is not always the case. Let's take me for an example. When I ate meat my blood iron levels were just a bit over the lowest it should get and when I stopped eating meat it fell a bit more so it was below the normal minimum. Now, I can easily drink a nice glass of orange flavoured supplements every day but I would rather a kid didnt have to do that. I mean we're talking about babies here and while supplements are getting better ,youvare still feeding your kid chemistry. That's the way I see it at least.

    My biggest concern would be dairy as well.
    93% of soy is genetically modified so you'd either have to pay a lot to find the 7% that is not or again feed your baby something of questionable quality.

    Since you mentioned the food pyramid which is basically the mediterranean diet, I believe that it would be the ideal diet for children and people in general. Not because I'm Greek but it's one of the things we got right ( and much like other thungs we chose to forget about it later on, although you could say they were reason for that at some points). In my ideal world everyone eats meat 2,3 times a month and we don't need to murder disgustingly big amounts of poor animals everyday. Unfortunately the world is ****ed...
    If things were like that I might not have been a vegeterian cause things would not be as inhuman as theyvare now. My family would probably eat an animal every two months not one and their extented family within a week.

    As you said the key to everything is balance. A diet full of meat is definetely not healthy ( if not a but disgusting) but I think that especially for a baby neither is a vegan one.
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    (Original post by venetiaan)
    Thank you for the detailed reply!
    I'm a vegeterian myself so I understand that most things can be replaced. However that is not always the case. Let's take me for an example. When I ate meat my blood iron levels were just a bit over the lowest it should get and when I stopped eating meat it fell a bit more so it was below the normal minimum. Now, I can easily drink a nice glass of orange flavoured supplements every day but I would rather a kid didnt have to do that. I mean we're talking about babies here and while supplements are getting better ,youvare still feeding your kid chemistry. That's the way I see it at least.

    My biggest concern would be dairy as well.
    93% of soy is genetically modified so you'd either have to pay a lot to find the 7% that is not or again feed your baby something of questionable quality.

    Since you mentioned the food pyramid which is basically the mediterranean diet, I believe that it would be the ideal diet for children and people in general. Not because I'm Greek but it's one of the things we got right ( and much like other thungs we chose to forget about it later on, although you could say they were reason for that at some points). In my ideal world everyone eats meat 2,3 times a month and we don't need to murder disgustingly big amounts of poor animals everyday. Unfortunately the world is ****ed...
    If things were like that I might not have been a vegeterian cause things would not be as inhuman as theyvare now. My family would probably eat an animal every two months not one and their extented family within a week.

    As you said the key to everything is balance. A diet full of meat is definetely not healthy ( if not a but disgusting) but I think that especially for a baby neither is a vegan one.
    It's cool, I'm always up for talking about food and stuff, I'm seriously passionate about that.

    Yeah, I can understand about the supplements - my mother was very close to dying because she wasn't eating enough of the right stuff, so I know the value of making sure you get enough iron. If I can give you any advice, it's to watch your B12 levels. It almost killed my mother and it sure as hell could affect anyone else.

    I think we'd have a fundamental disagreement about chemicals and GMOs because I'm totally for genetically modified foods, I truly believe that synthetic food types are the future of nutrition, because if you can chemically engineer a food type which contains all the necessary vitamins and minerals for a person, there would be huge savings - land use would be drastically slashed depending on manufacturing methods, and the food supply wouldn't be dependent on weather conditions which can lead to famines where there's droughts and no plants grow. I'm all for whatever scientists can cook up in their labs if it helps people in countries affected by serious climate change issues.

    I totally agree with you that being vegan/veggie shouldn't be a necessity if the meat and dairy industry was more humane, but unfortunately it's been shown that it's impossible to farm sustainably, even if everyone grew their own animals and ate that instead of factory meat. However, I totally get how a load of people can't fully get rid of meat from their diet like you due to complications with iron and other things. But our gross dependence upon meat and dairy is incredibly harmful to our bodies.

    For a baby, I would feed my child with baby formula (packed with all the nutrients and minerals they would need, chemicals or not, because that's all formula really is? chemicals needed for growth?). When they're old enough to either take supplements or eat a balanced diet, I'd introduce them to a lot of vegan versions of their favourite meals, and if they don't like it I wouldn't stop them eating meat and dairy, I'd just try and balance their diet say, half vegan half... not. As you said, it's all about balance.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Is the government going to do something about all those little fat blobs waddling out of MacDonalds?
    I'm sure they will at some stage
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    (Original post by blue2337)
    It's cool, I'm always up for talking about food and stuff, I'm seriously passionate about that.

    Yeah, I can understand about the supplements - my mother was very close to dying because she wasn't eating enough of the right stuff, so I know the value of making sure you get enough iron. If I can give you any advice, it's to watch your B12 levels. It almost killed my mother and it sure as hell could affect anyone else.

    I think we'd have a fundamental disagreement about chemicals and GMOs because I'm totally for genetically modified foods, I truly believe that synthetic food types are the future of nutrition, because if you can chemically engineer a food type which contains all the necessary vitamins and minerals for a person, there would be huge savings - land use would be drastically slashed depending on manufacturing methods, and the food supply wouldn't be dependent on weather conditions which can lead to famines where there's droughts and no plants grow. I'm all for whatever scientists can cook up in their labs if it helps people in countries affected by serious climate change issues.

    I totally agree with you that being vegan/veggie shouldn't be a necessity if the meat and dairy industry was more humane, but unfortunately it's been shown that it's impossible to farm sustainably, even if everyone grew their own animals and ate that instead of factory meat. However, I totally get how a load of people can't fully get rid of meat from their diet like you due to complications with iron and other things. But our gross dependence upon meat and dairy is incredibly harmful to our bodies.

    For a baby, I would feed my child with baby formula (packed with all the nutrients and minerals they would need, chemicals or not, because that's all formula really is? chemicals needed for growth?). When they're old enough to either take supplements or eat a balanced diet, I'd introduce them to a lot of vegan versions of their favourite meals, and if they don't like it I wouldn't stop them eating meat and dairy, I'd just try and balance their diet say, half vegan half... not. As you said, it's all about balance.
    Hope your mother is okay now!
    Thanks for the advise! I try to do check ups regularly so I can keep track of everything.

    I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on GMOs. I think they sometimes cause more trouble than they're worth. You literally can't plant anything next to modified crops cause it wouldnt survive for a long time. Small farmers in Paraguay are facing huge problems with that. Pests and weeds have grown resistant to pesticides so Monsanto introduces new ones regurarly. Not modified plants crops cant survuve from the pesticides, the pests or the weeds so they are basically doomed. Not only do they destroy anything else around them but the pesticides contain chemicals that could be causing increased cancer rates in some areas.( I'm sorry if you can't understand what I'm trying to say at some points, my english is not at its best)
    I do agree that there are many countries that suffer from famine because of drought and that needs to be stopped. I'm just not 100% sure GMOs should be the solution.
    There are countries that throw away so much food. I know for a fact that inordinate amounts of fruits and vegetables are thrown away every year in Greece. It must happen in other countries as well. Maybe something could be worked out and we could give all this food to countries that need it instead of throwing it in the trash.

    I would give the baby formula as well. There's really not much else you can feed it at that stage. Babies can safely start eating almost all foods by 8 months. I don't think they would be ready for supplements by that age or anytime near that age. I would agree to slowly start introducing a child of 5-6 years old to vegan dishes but without cutting out milk and dairy completely.
 
 
 
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