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    The Muslim "empire" had spread out to modern day Syria, Iraq, Yemen and even Iran during the life of Muhammad himself. Surely he deserves credit for that? In addition, if you're arguing Jesus is influential because of Christianity being dominant in the west, surely you have to apply the same standards to Muhammad?
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    for a start, i pointed out empires are a poor way of measuring which of the two has the biggest penis (though given Muhammad was uncircumcised, it might give him an extra half inch). Anyway, i stated that Jesus piggybacked on western sucsess, not that Jesus was the casue of it. Also, jesus is just a figurehead for Christian teaching, and plenty of people who did ACTIONS whilst being Crhistian can indirectly, and while commited Christianity has delined in the west, its fundamental aspects are still pretty entrenched in e.g. western law. Also, geographical extent doesnt measure greatness, i bet places like Yemen were hellholes.

    And if we are looking at the west vs the east, i think its fair to say the west won in contributions to creating the modern, developed world. Western is just another word for developed nowadays.
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    (Original post by Consie)
    bull****, when did Muhammad turn up and order a temple to be built? The people acting under the idea deserve more credit than the idea itself. Its easy to say something, harder to do it.
    Yeah sure, but the fact that they acted under his ideas showed how influential he was, even after death.

    In all fairness people could have just thought '****** it' and revert to their old ways 80 years later.
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    but you can say the same about Christainity, but these 'measurements' are a bit crappy. Christian ideals have had a greater impact on shaping the developed world as it stands than Islamic ones, end of.
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    Immediately after reading the name of the thread, Tupac Shakur comes to mind. Someone who totally changed the world of rap music in the short life he led.
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    (Original post by Michael Scofield)
    Immediately after reading the name of the thread, Tupac Shakur comes to mind. Someone who totally changed the world of rap music in the short life he led.
    I can only hope you're joking.
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    (Original post by Consie)
    but you can say the same about Christainity, but these 'measurements' are a bit crappy. Christian ideals have had a greater impact on shaping the developed world as it stands than Islamic ones, end of.
    So? Influence isn't necessarily about greatness, or progressiveness, it is about to what extent people's lives are affected by ones actions, and how much they follow. I would argue that seeing how the average Muslim follows the words of Mo' med to the letter, far more than the average Christian does with Jesus, Mo'med was more INFLUENTIAL- he affects people's lives more. Plus, Mo's followers don't seem to be letting up, whereas Western society is getting more secular by the day.
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    I can only hope you're joking.
    He supports ManU and has a woman shaking her ass at the screen; i doubt he is joking.
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    So? Influence isn't necessarily about greatness, or progressiveness, it is about to what extent people's lives are affected by ones actions, and how much they follow. I would argue that seeing how the average Muslim follows the words of Mo' med to the letter, far more than the average Christian does with Jesus, Mo'med was more INFLUENTIAL- he affects people's lives more. Plus, Mo's followers don't seem to be letting up, whereas Western society is getting more secular by the day.
    But western Society, which is still influenced by Christianity no matter how secular (dont forget secular assumes there is still a church) has more influence on 'eastern' Muslim society than they do on us. So ownage. so not only does Jesus impact our lives, it nails thiers too.

    He supports ManU and has a woman shaking her ass at the screen; i doubt he is joking
    .


    I wanted to say 'go back to chat' but it would sound farrrr to snobby, plus half of the crap i post wouldnt even make it in chat.
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    (Original post by Michael Scofield)
    Immediately after reading the name of the thread, Tupac Shakur comes to mind. Someone who totally changed the world of rap music in the short life he led.
    If this was a list solely dedicated to music, I might be prepared to contemplate your suggestion, although even then top 10 would be a bit much. But you honestly want to tell me than a rap artist is more important to world history than Ghandi, who isn't even on my top 10? More important than Augustus Caesar and Christopher Columbus?!?! It's an incredibly competitive list, and there's just no way Tupac Shakur even comes close to the top 1000, let alone the top 10.
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    (Original post by Consie)
    Dont be a moron, he pretty much explained the universe. My brother, who studied physics, was telling me he theoretically suggested the existance of things that are only being empiracly proven today. I think the understanding of General Relativity, in the grand scheme of things, is more important than what **** Plato was chatting about things that were wrong, or what boss stories Homer was reciting. I think Scientists rightly come above most other folk for greatness in history, they push the boundaries beyond simply the dominion of man and his petty concerns.
    No, he didn't. Ever heard of quantum theory?
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    (Original post by Consie)
    But western Society, which is still influenced by Christianity no matter how secular (dont forget secular assumes there is still a church) has more influence on 'eastern' Muslim society than they do on us. So ownage. so not only does Jesus impact our lives, it nails thiers too.
    No, as that would imply that religios beliefs had something to do with said "ownership"- which i find dubious to say the least. Our societies influence in the East isn't about religion as much as it is about money, politics, etc. Nothing to do with the teachings of either two men.
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    how is ghandi that important in the history of the world? I dont know THAT much of him, but it seems to me he was just a dude involved in the end of the Raj. If you're going to say somthing crazy like 'he ushered in the era of post colonialism', as though it was down to an individual, then ill find your house and burn it down.

    No, he didn't. Ever heard of quantum theory?
    *universe on a grand scale. Hence the words 'pretty much'. Has anyone made any progress toward unification theory? And its quantum mechanics, not quantum theory.
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    I can only hope you're joking.
    Not at all. Although I'm not a regular at all in this part of TSR I saw this thread on the main screen and thought it best if I air my views. Not taking anything from the thread though - I agree with a lot of great people already mentioned. I just felt it necessary to name Tupac in order to transcend this thread beyond the thresholds of just religion and politics and take it into another subject which influences many of our lives - music.
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    (Original post by Cage)
    If this was a list solely dedicated to music, I might be prepared to contemplate your suggestion, although even then top 10 would be a bit much. But you honestly want to tell me than a rap artist is more important to world history than Ghandi, who isn't even on my top 10? More important than Augustus Caesar and Christopher Columbus?!?! It's an incredibly competitive list, and there's just no way Tupac Shakur even comes close to the top 1000, let alone the top 10.
    Though i very muh doubt the point i will bring forth was on this guy's mind, i thin we should give Tupac marginally more credit. Could it not be argue that as the guy who pretty much brought the hip-hop culture into the mainstream, Tupac had a hand in creating a subculture that is rightly or wrongly blamed for a lot of theis current world's ills, from street crime, gun-crime etc, to the low attainment levels in schools by black boys? Maybe there is more influence there than we think....though i will say now i disagree with myown point- rap music doesn't turn people into criminals! But as many believe it does(any of the Daily Mail readers, for starters), its a thought worth bringing up.
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    Regardless of whether or not he is important to the history of all time, Gandhi is certainly important in the history of the 20th century.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    He supports ManU and has a woman shaking her ass at the screen; i doubt he is joking.
    That comment is not needed mate. It does nothing to further this thread.
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    (Original post by Consie)
    how is ghandi that important in the history of the world? I dont know THAT much of him, but it seems to me he was just a dude involved in the end of the Raj. If you're going to say somthing crazy like 'he ushered in the era of post colonialism', as though it was down to an individual, then ill find your house and burn it down.
    I didn't put him top 10, and I wouldn't, I was merely demonstrating the importance of some of the people NOT to make the list. But since you ask, the independence of India led to the floodgates opening. I think it is impossible to overestimate the importance of Ghandi as an individual. Above all, he demonstrated how determination can prevail over oppression. The competitiveness of the list means he doesn't reach the top 10, but he was still an incredibly influential person.
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    (Original post by Michael Scofield)
    Not at all. Although I'm not a regular at all in this part of TSR I saw this thread on the main screen and thought it best if I air my views. Not taking anything from the thread though - I agree with a lot of great people already mentioned. I just felt it necessary to name Tupac in order to transcend this thread beyond the thresholds of just religion and politics and take it into another subject which influences many of our lives - music.
    Now this is looking up!
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    but he only influenced a small aspect of music, so even then he aint that hot. Plus, i think hes one of those dudes who because he died 'in his prime' people think of him in legendary terms. He was just another thug who wore more jewellery than most women. Plus, Run DMC own his ass.

    I didn't put him top 10, and I wouldn't, I was merely demonstrating the importance of some of the people NOT to make the list. But since you ask, the independence of India led to the floodgates opening. I think it is impossible to overestimate the importance of Ghandi as an individual. Above all, he demonstrated how determination can prevail over oppression. The competitiveness of the list means he doesn't reach the top 10, but he was still an incredibly influential person.
    The floodgates opened becasue Britain was crippled from taking a large part of the impact of two world wars mainly. Plus the anti imperialist US was becoming rather hard. Plus, Ghandi was more trying to control Indian nationalism, which he arguably failed to do (hence Pakistan) rather than being the source of it.
 
 
 
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