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S20 – Statement of Intent from the Secretary of State for Education watch

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    (Original post by Aph)
    I see no point in keeping imperial when metric is globally accepted. We are in a transition system and are doing perfectly fine, all the oldies will be dead in 20-30 years at which point the is no need at all for metric st trying to preserve it is pointless.

    Metric is useless in maths. Maths is a tool for science essentially so should be all in metric.
    Metric is globally accepted yes, but there are cultural norms which use imperial measurements, height and weight for example. Even among younger generations, I don't think it's that common to use metric for these measurements. Sure, more do than in other generations, but I certainly would still use feet and inches to describe my height and (stones) and pounds to describe my weight and many more besides do. You're not really answering my question though Aph, isn't it hypocritical to advocate a society which is focused on people coming together only then to throw barriers up between them through insisting on younger generations learning only metric, something which older generations have not learned? I've also got to say that I find your disdain for the older generations on this issue and indeed on their rights to vote a little disgraceful since a) the sacrifices of many of that generation has allowed us to maintain our rights to vote and b) it is their world too and they have every right to have their say too.

    On the point of maths lessons, I'm not saying that questions would return to being in imperial measurements; of course calculations would still require metric. What I am saying is that two or three lessons on imperial measurements does not harm anyone.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Metric is globally accepted yes, but there are cultural norms which use imperial measurements, height and weight for example. Even among younger generations, I don't think it's that common to use metric for these measurements. Sure, more do than in other generations, but I certainly would still use feet and inches to describe my height and (stones) and pounds to describe my weight and many more besides do. You're not really answering my question though Aph, isn't it hypocritical to advocate a society which is focused on people coming together only then to throw barriers up between them through insisting on younger generations learning only metric, something which older generations have not learned? I've also got to say that I find your disdain for the older generations on this issue and indeed on their rights to vote a little disgraceful since a) the sacrifices of many of that generation has allowed us to maintain our rights to vote and b) it is their world too and they have every right to have their say too.
    I don't find it hypocritical at all, it is for all intents and purposes a tiny, tiny barrier is one at all, if you need to work out the difference there is always Google but most people I know who are of the older persuasion can work well in both. If older people can't be bothered to learn the new system then that's their fault. Or are you going to start advocating we all have to speak every language on earth to try and 'bring people together'.

    On the point of maths lessons, I'm not saying that questions would return to being in imperial measurements; of course calculations would still require metric. What I am saying is that two or three lessons on imperial measurements does not harm anyone.
    2/3 lessons is hardly worth being mentioned. In an SOI. and they are also unneeded.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    IT increases the wealth gap, makes a bigger difference between the haves and have nots, drives poor people into poverty, makes people redundant ect. New technology, although being great for health ect. And for basic curiosities sake unless the population is cut globally in half will make people much less happy.

    I'd argue that a tribes person in Africa is much more happy than Dave down the pub is.
    Why don't you move there.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I don't find it hypocritical at all, it is for all intents and purposes a tiny, tiny barrier is one at all, if you need to work out the difference there is always Google but most people I know who are of the older persuasion can work well in both. If older people can't be bothered to learn the new system then that's their fault. Or are you going to start advocating we all have to speak every language on earth to try and 'bring people together'.
    But it's absolutely hypocritical. Your attempt at reductio ad absurdum does not work in that we are confining the issue here to the British education system and British culture. We might apply this example to English though in that one could argue that everyone who lives in the UK should learn English. Now that example is entirely applicable here because those who don't speak English are in the minority, so should learn English, thereby complying with social norms in the UK and moreover causing the least amount of disruption to the lives of everyone (i.e. because those who know English, the majority, don't have to learn every other language spoken in the UK). Similarly, children are in the minority for not knowing imperial measurements and so to cause the least amount of disruption, they should be the ones taught imperial measurements to comply with social norms. Using google, like using a calculator, is all well and good, but getting students to work out the conversions in their heads is even better and should be better.

    2/3 lessons is hardly worth being mentioned. In an SOI. and they are also unneeded.
    That may not be mobbsy's plan, but it's what I would consider appropriate - 1 lesson teaching all the imperial units, 1 on conversion, and 1 on practice/ consolidation. They are needed as demonstrated above and your prejudice against the elderly blinds you from seeing this that is such a minor point, but one that actually very much follows your logic.
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    Imperial is still an official system. Road signs are exclusively in Imperial. It does not make sense to teach people to answer physics problems in foot-pounds but it does make sense to teach people how to convert between miles and kilometers. I was never taught this, presumably because of ideological dogma against even mentioning miles.

    Alternatively, aggressively ban Imperial units, including the use of de-facto Imperial units marked in metric. Then you will get rid of the Imperial system in a few decades, but I am not sure you can justify jailing people for serving lager in pints, etc.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Why don't you move there.
    dont care much about happiness and have an insatiable appitite for knowledge.

    (Original post by toronto353)
    But it's absolutely hypocritical. Your attempt at reductio ad absurdum does not work in that we are confining the issue here to the British education system and British culture. We might apply this example to English though in that one could argue that everyone who lives in the UK should learn English. Now that example is entirely applicable here because those who don't speak English are in the minority, so should learn English, thereby complying with social norms in the UK and moreover causing the least amount of disruption to the lives of everyone (i.e. because those who know English, the majority, don't have to learn every other language spoken in the UK). Similarly, children are in the minority for not knowing imperial measurements and so to cause the least amount of disruption, they should be the ones taught imperial measurements to comply with social norms. Using google, like using a calculator, is all well and good, but getting students to work out the conversions in their heads is even better and should be better.
    firsly there is no such thing as 'British culture' that statement is a lie. And I'd like you to back up the fact that there are more people who don't know metric over imperial. Because I highly doubt that claim.



    That may not be mobbsy's plan, but it's what I would consider appropriate - 1 lesson teaching all the imperial units, 1 on conversion, and 1 on practice/ consolidation. They are needed as demonstrated above and your prejudice against the elderly blinds you from seeing this that is such a minor point, but one that actually very much follows your logic.
    It would be a waste of resources and also thsi isn't about my so called "prejudice against the elderly" it's that I see no reason to continue using imperial at all. It's a pointless system and a pointless policy designed only to make the minority feel good about themselves.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    dont care much about happiness and have an insatiable appitite for knowledge.

    ... there is no such thing as 'British culture' that statement is a lie.
    If you spent some time living in Sub-Saharan Africa you might learn that there is such a thing as British culture.
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    What guarantee can the Secretary give us that his new grammar schools won't fail our the children admitted to them? Is it not true that the current, successful, grammar schools are successful because they're built on years and years of excellence? Or is this just a matter of giving better resources to these schools than the established ones can expect?

    Is there evidence that giving extra subsidies to STEM students will have a 'huge effect'?

    Agree with more computing education from an early age (I suspect it is this and not the price of STEM degrees that will have the greatest positive effect on our future economy). We need to build a tech-based future for all our people.

    The government does appear to be interspersing their very, very typical Tory policies with a vision that might actually make our schools into the ideal institutions we all wish them to be. After the coding, first aid and running I'd like to see the government promote strategy games like chess in schools as a recreational activity to help develop students patience, sense of fair play, concentration and critical thinking skills.

    The government's state-interventionist stance on the free market for tuition seems very out-of-character. And though it looks like an attempt to shirk state responsibility it is not an offensive policy.

    The metric and imperial section doesn't even seem worthy of mentioning here. Aren't conversions already in the GCSE syllabuses?

    It is disturbing that the government is trying to teach young children monetarism exclusively which appears to be an ideological intervention into the curriculum. Monetarism is a minor portion of any balanced economics curriculum. The government should rethink.

    Nothing on free schools and academies. Hmmm.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Imperial is still an official system. Road signs are exclusively in Imperial. It does not make sense to teach people to answer physics problems in foot-pounds but it does make sense to teach people how to convert between miles and kilometers. I was never taught this, presumably because of ideological dogma against even mentioning miles.

    Alternatively, aggressively ban Imperial units, including the use of de-facto Imperial units marked in metric. Then you will get rid of the Imperial system in a few decades, but I am not sure you can justify jailing people for serving lager in pints, etc.
    In the Model House of Commons we legislated to change all imperial road signs to metric.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    In the Model House of Commons we legislated to change all imperial road signs to metric.
    I think that may have come before the last Great Repeal Act, or I cannot remember a bill making everything metric coming in recent times.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    dont care much about happiness and have an insatiable appitite for knowledge.

    Could have fooled us...


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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I think that may have come before the last Great Repeal Act, or I cannot remember a bill making everything metric coming in recent times.
    It was in March/April 2014 – long repealed by now.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Reducing tuition fees to STEM, unless met with extra money to unis will weaken them and unis will begin to struggle.
    Are we teaching students to put the UK economy above their own self interests? Really?!
    I really couldn't agree more. I think it disappointing that the education minister, and the prime minister by extension, doesn't recognise the contribution made by the arts and humanities. The British identity boasts of Shakespeare, Austen, Turner, and Holman-Hunt, but little care is shown to those writers or artists who could potentially contribute in the future.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Firstly there is no such thing as 'British culture' that statement is a lie.
    Ridiculous. This is why we need better humanities teaching. 'Culture' is everything form the language you speak to the way you conceptualise society at large. Our urban environment is the physical manifestation of our understanding of our own cultural identity. The Palace of Westminster, for example, is built in the British perpendicular style of gothic architecture - a reference to the Magna Carta and the linear path of historical 'progression' that, according to contemporary Whig politicians, shifted Britain away from the 'darkness' of feudalism towards the 'light' of 'democracy'.*
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    I welcome the Secretary of State's embrace of the future through measures such as enabling children to learn computing languages in the classroom and the reduction of tuition fees for young men and women studying Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics degrees. However, an important part of nationhood is the acknowledgement and appreciation of the history of one's homeland. To what extent, and by what means, is the government planning to ensure the passing on of the British cultural tradition through history and other subjects in Primary, Secondary and Tertiary education?
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    (Original post by colourtheory)
    I really couldn't agree more. I think it disappointing that the education minister, and the prime minister by extension, doesn't recognise the contribution made by the arts and humanities. The British identity boasts of Shakespeare, Austen, Turner, and Holman-Hunt, but little care is shown to those writers or artists who could potentially contribute in the future.
    You mean those people who don't need a degree to be economically successful, and doing a degree will probably lead you to being an economic burden?
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    Increasing number of grammar school? Go away.
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    (Original post by Trapping)
    Increasing number of grammar school? Go away.
    UKIP championed grammar school introduction last year.
 
 
 
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