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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    They say Muslims don't integrate, but in reality it's society pushing them away, in this case, it's with something as simple as clothing.

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    I find it hard to take this comment seriously
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    A hysterically disproportionate measure that ironically defies the French values.
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    The mayor of Cannes has banned the wearing of burkinis - full-body swimsuits - on the beaches of the French Riviera resort famous for its annual film festival, officials said on Thursday.
    Mayor David Lisnard signed off on the ruling that "access to beaches and for swimming is banned to anyone who does not have (bathing apparel) which respects good customs and secularism," which is a founding principle of the French republic.
    "Beachwear which ostentatiously diplays religious affiliation, when France and places of worship are currently the target of terrorist attacks, is liable to create risks of disrupting public order (crowds, scuffles etc) which it is necessary to prevent," it says.
    Thierry Migoule, head of municipal services for the town, sought to clarify the ruling's intent.
    "We are not talking about banning the wearing of religious symbols on the beach ... but ostentatious clothing which refers to an allegiance to terrorist movements which are at war with us," he said.

    Burkinis banned on Cannes Riviera beaches by French mayor - The Telegraph
    https://apple.news/AVJQTqAaaRaKTNe5_BrQzIQ

    Thoughts?? I think this is quite frankly ridiculous.
    I agree, it does not need too much imagination to ban anything, law should be enough to fight any extremism as long as law is not constrained by the ridiculous defence of "human rights".
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    (Original post by getfunky!)
    So the French attacks were a result of Muslims or Islamic culture? And not at all related to French foreign policy?
    The attacks were a result of Muslims who were part of particular pockets within a larger peaceful Muslim community which have had trouble with integration and radicalisation, and who were therefore easily manipulated into killing for the ISIS cause. The ISIS cause is known to be to attack disbelievers, wherever they may be. Factors such as attacking countries which are currently bombing ISIS, targeting gay people, targeting crowds, etc. obviously play into the choice of location, but ultimately they seek to wipe out disbelievers. That's the modus operandi of the attacks.

    I don't think the French government has helped with the situation I have mentioned in terms of helping people to integrate, which has probably contributed, but I disagree with attaching blame to "foreign policy". If you are referring to Iraq/Afghanistan, will we still be blaming those wars for attacks in 20 or 30 years as a way to ignore the real modus operandi of this new strain of ISIS terror, which is simply to attack disbelievers?
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    How in dept was your study? I've seen scholars say covering the face fully is fine. So who am I to believe, people who've studied their entire lives or a teenager who's googled a few times?
    This topic has always been in discussion with scholars. I can find you scholars that disagree too, you won't get your answer like that. You're right to say there is no definitive answer to this topic. Hijab (I mean khimaar) and burka are too different things.
    The former is obligatory for muslim women yet the latter is contested. What I meant was that we shouldn't be advising something that hasn't got enough supportive evidence. That is no different from complying with some (bizarre) hadiths with very little support too.
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    This topic has always been in discussion with scholars. I can find you scholars that disagree too, you won't get your answer like that. You're right to say there is no definitive answer to this topic. Hijab (I mean khimaar) and burka are too different things.
    The former is obligatory for muslim women yet the latter is contested. What I meant was that we shouldn't be advising something that hasn't got enough supportive evidence. That is no different from complying with some (bizarre) hadiths with very little support too.
    Face coverings aren't contested in whether they are islamic or not. The general discussion is centered around whether they are obligatory or just encouraged.

    With all due respect, you've done far more than advise against something because you couldn't find supporting evidence. Ridiculing those women because you didn't like the image would be a better way to put it.

    I'm not trying to have a go at you. I just really disagree wth how you've gone about this.
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    (Original post by M14B)
    Shake my head
    Shake ur head at what exactly ?
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Face coverings aren't contested in whether they are islamic or not. The general discussion is centered around whether they are obligatory or just encouraged.

    With all due respect, you've done far more than advise against something because you couldn't find supporting evidence. Ridiculing those women because you didn't like the image would be a better way to put it.
    You're right. It's no secret that it was disrespectful of me to do that. I was just thinking of a guy in my school who told me it was obligatory by islamic law to go out like that and that his wife would have to agree with it. People like those really piss me off and they are the reason why everyone thinks we're so backwards, when we're not. I understand choice of attire plays a huge part in this.
    At the end of the day forcing someone to wear something is the same as forcing them not to wear something. Choice is essential.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    They say Muslims don't integrate, but in reality it's society pushing them away, in this case, it's with something as simple as clothing.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    No, it's not quite that simple. Its clothing designed to dehumanise and desexualise women in an attempt to control their social lives, pandering to some belief that men are incapable of controlling themselves if they see exposed skin.

    Women are brainwashed into thinking that being forced and coeced into wearing specific clothing does not restrict them, instead it frees them. They do not see the irony of the very people encouraging them to cover themselves up telling them that it is freeing them. Sure, you can choose to wear whatever you like. But for many girls it is not a choice; it is an obligation. If they do not wear some kind of religious dress they can be excluded from their society, families, friends, etc.

    Moving to a foreign country and not adopting (or at least tolerating) the local language, style of dress, festivals, way of life - it's bizarre. Why move if you want to continue with your exact same life and change the local culture because it is not to your taste? For example, if I got the opportunity to move to Australia I'd love to have more bbqs and get into sports such as surfing, etc. Continue with your own culture, that's fine, but at least make an effort to learn the language. Almost all of the Muslims I know have parents that speak little to no English skills despite living here for nearly 20 years. Sad.

    From what I've seen - living in a predominantly Muslim area - sure, those born here seem to adapt well (if they have gone to a non religious school). But their parents make zero effort to engage in life over here. I find it difficult to be accused of pushing someone away who does not bother to learn the language here.

    Kudos to the French for not pandering to abuse and misogyny disguised as faith.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Kudos to the French for not pandering to abuse and misogyny disguised as faith.
    Is it really misogyny if women choose to wear it? I'd agree with your point if they were forced to.
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    How many people do you see wearing Burkas that are not Muslim women coming from Islamist backgrounds?

    your logic is flawed when you realize the reality for these women wearing them, as I mentioned earlier they have no "choice" here in the first place. They face the Burqa or being exiled from the family unit

    "Some Muslim women are forced to wear religious clothing. Ban religious clothing...
    Some Muslim women are forced into marriage. Ban marriage!"
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    (Original post by mercuryman)
    You're right. It's no secret that it was disrespectful of me to do that. I was just thinking of a guy in my school who told me it was obligatory by islamic law to go out like that and that his wife would have to agree with it. People like those really piss me off and they are the reason why everyone thinks we're so backwards, when we're not. I understand choice of attire plays a huge part in this.


    Anyway just make tawbah and it's all good.

    If you believe hijab is obligatory and niqab etc isn't then it's fine. If he believes the latter is compulsory then it's also fine, it's reasonable that he would look for a spouse who wears it because of his view. I'm not sure why this pissed you off, perhaps he may have just said it in a bad way but we shouldn't think of it as backwards because far better Muslims than us have also held this same opinion. I think when there is a legimate difference of opinion, such as in this case, we should be a bit more understanding even in disagreement.

    I'd be fine with my wife if she just weore abayah etc but I'd still defend the niqabis etc to the death
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    (Original post by remiremi)
    Good, full body Burka type outfits are only worn in Syria/Iran/Iraq and the liberal west by a minority of hardcore Muslims. In some women are not even allowed to swim on their own on risk of being arrested.

    Maybe this will give french Muslim families/husbands the hint to let their daughters/wives wear what they want in public.

    Not what their religious cult demands them
    a) How is this any different to a wet suit?
    b) If this was men oppressing women, then do you think they'd let them go out AT ALL? These are women going out, often with friends..

    Oh and if you wish to dictate what women can and can not wear, then it is you who is oppressing them. Wear a bikini, wear a burkini. Why should it matter what you wear? One is basically a wet suit, and one is basically underwear

    Oh and the irony here, is that this is a western fashion design... Burkinis weren't commonplace even 5 years ago
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    Yeah, this will help to defeat those pesky terrorists...

    No one gives a **** about what people wear in the water. Still, it's always better to look like you're doing something to win the "War on Terror" even if that something is utterly pointless.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    a) How is this any different to a wet suit?
    b) If this was men oppressing women, then do you think they'd let them go out AT ALL? These are women going out, often with friends..

    Oh and if you wish to dictate what women can and can not wear, then it is you who is oppressing them. Wear a bikini, wear a burkini. Why should it matter what you wear? One is basically a wet suit, and one is basically underwear

    Oh and the irony here, is that this is a western fashion design... Burkinis weren't commonplace even 5 years ago
    Again, wet suits and bikinis don't represent s religion. Burkinis do. It doesn't matter when and where they were created. France has a strong secular tradition, and if people and Muslims don't like that then they are free to not go to or leave France and go and live in Saudi Arabia which is
    the most holy place for Muslims, where they can be "true Muslims". How long will it be until they beg to come back to Europe as they realise the true form of their religion is based on women being second class citizens and the adoration of a pedophile. It's a cancer on the world like every religion is.
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    I can sum up this thread very quickly:

    Mostly British Muslims who don't understand how important secularism is in France calling it 'ridiculous'
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    Yeah, this will help to defeat those pesky terrorists...

    No one gives a **** about what people wear in the water. Still, it's always better to look like you're doing something to win the "War on Terror" even if that something is utterly pointless.
    You're right it won't. Let's nuke isis instead.

    And before you say "don't do that! You'll create more terrorists". In my opinion that response or worry shows you the true Islam. If most Muslims are peaceful nuking and destroying Isis would not turn them into a terrorist.
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    If you looks at beach attire from about 200 years a go it's not that different

    Name:  43r4r.jpg
Views: 195
Size:  113.2 KB

    Give it a few hundred years and they will catch up
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    If you support this but then preach about woman deciding for themselves what they should and shouldn't wear then you are a hypocrite.
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    (Original post by sebby491)
    If you support this but then preach about woman deciding for themselves what they should and shouldn't wear then you are a hypocrite.
    You're totally missing the point and have ZERO idea or knowledge on how important secularism is in France. A Burkini is a religious symbol.

    If covering up is so important, they can wear a wetsuit. If it isn't - there's no problem in it being banned.
 
 
 
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