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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I never said they didn't make a conscious decision to do them, what's your point?

    As I've said above, smokers and alcoholics pay far more tax on their products than they'll ever need for treatment, so the cost gets carried over to tax already raised from one lot of drug users to another.

    Also, isn't it in the public interest for them to successfully exit rehab as a fully functioning member of society instead of being a burden on the taxpayer by taking up a jail cell?

    If you're worried about the potential danger then you must also be worried about men being potential rapists due to having a penis, or everyone being potential murderers and/or burglars due to having hands.

    There are many drug addicts that don't resort to crime, it's not fair to generalise based on a stereotype.
    And you know what about those tax cash?
    It could have been used to give better free medical care. Improve nation-wide educational standards and provide jobs for more people? Nope. They get used on relapsing crack heads
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Yes i had the confidence i wouldn't become addicted as i've never suffered from mental health problems or addiction and with a dependency rate of 15% it seemed unlikely.
    You're just really lucky to not have fallen in the 15%. Even that is such a high number on something so ridiculous, unnecessary and dangerous.
    You wouldn't be defending this arguement if at all you did fall in the 15%.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Why is it acceptable? What makes it any different to bigotry directed at gays?
    Because drugs are illegal. Drug users are criminals.

    Society should treat criminals with disdain.
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    You're just really lucky to not have fallen in the 15%. Even that is such a high number on something so ridiculous, unnecessary and dangerous.
    I'm guessing you've tried alcohol? You're just as lucky as i am if you're not an alcoholic, more so if you've used it more than once.

    (Original post by AvWOW)
    You wouldn't be defending this arguement if at all you did fall in the 15%.
    If i did it'd likely be a result of poor mental health rather than the drug itself.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Of course I'm saying cannabis is acceptable. Socially and morally there's nothing wrong with it, it's only because of its legal status that there's a social stigma surrounding it.
    What about the guy who only sniffs coke once in a blue moon, or the chick who skin pops a couple of times a year?




    You didn't directly answer any of my questions. In fact, I said as much. Are you high? :holmes:
    Smokers and alcoholics pay several times more tax on their products than is necessary for their treatment, so all in all it works out alright: one group of drug users supporting the treatment of other drug users.
    No. Illegal drugs users don't pay tax on their illegal drugs. And the tax that smokers and alcohol users pay on their drugs is barely adequate for just the health problems they face. It's not enough to cover the full costs of drug use.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    I'm guessing you've tried alcohol? You're just as lucky as i am if you're not an alcoholic, more so if you've used it more than once.



    If i did it'd likely be a result of poor mental health rather than the drug itself.
    I have not and will not ever do alcohol (because I'm not a hypocrite). I consider it an unacceptable drug as well. But I am a strong supporter of weed.
    What bs. Hard drugs have shown such adverse effects of brain function on they own. Don't blame mental health for everything. That's sickening.
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    What bs. Hard drugs have shown such adverse effects of brain function on they own. Don't blame mental health for everything. That's sickening.
    Sickening? Bit much. Poor mental health makes you more susceptible to addiction, sorry if you don't like that.
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    DO they all successfully exit from rehab? There's a lot more relapsing we all know of.
    I never said they all successfully exit, I said it would be in the publics' interest for them to become fully functioning members of society as a result of success rehab instead of wasting taxpayers money in prison (the money that you seem to think can go towards better things. Do you want to save money or not? I'm getting mixed messages).

    You're being absolutely ridiculous. You can't make a man NOT have a penis or a hand, but you CAN stop them from doing drugs just with a bit of bigotry.
    Really? Ever seen what a meat cleaver will do a penis?
    Ok, so I was exaggerating a bit, but as I've already said (something I'm getting real ****ing tired of saying) judging drug users and making them feel socially ostracised does not work. It merely deepens their addiction.

    I'm not generalising but I am talking about the potential offenders, that even you have to admit, DO exist.And this is such an unnecessary burden that can be avoided. This "stereotype" stems from the fact it happens. ALL the time. Again, why risk all this with such a small gamble? Wouldn't people rather be safe?
    What the hell are you talking about? You don't want people doing drugs so that other people are safe, but you're more than willing to encourage a social attitude that causes people already taking drugs to take more drugs (and thus improve their chances of hospitalisation, and increase their likelihood of committing a crime because they need more money to pay for their increased consumption).

    What kind of backward logic is that?

    Ok fine, set aside the taxes. What about the lives being ruined if things go wrong?
    I'm stunned that hard drug use is actually being defended!
    edit: As for drug use being their conscious decision; this means their situation cannot be sympathised or empathised in any way.
    It's their choice. They want to ruin their lives, it's no skin off my nose. Should alcohol and nicotine also be made illegal because of the potential to ruin lives?

    I never said that they should be sympathised or empathised with (however, a bit of sympathy would go a long way. Why would they hold group sessions in rehab if it didn't work?)
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Sickening? Bit much. Poor mental health makes you more susceptible to addiction, sorry if you don't like that.
    ok yes. That is true. Sorry, that was too harsh a word.
    It does mean more susceptibility to addiction, but OBVIOUSLY doesn't account for all cases.
    And to point out your to your foremost argument, lack of bigotry means any individual in society will be drawn to try drugs as it seems to show no consequences, as opposed to when it it socially unacceptable.
    And thus, ANYONE, those suffering from a mental illness or not, will end up doing drugs.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    No. Illegal drugs users don't pay tax on their illegal drugs. And the tax that smokers and alcohol users pay on their drugs is barely adequate for just the health problems they face. It's not enough to cover the full costs of drug use.
    However, if the drugs were legalised and regulated then people would be paying tax on them, which would offset the cost of the taxpayer.

    But I'm guessing you don't see that as a viable option because "drugz r bad", right?

    There's no discourse with some people.

    Also, because I'm apparently the only ****er on here who actually bothers with sources, here's how much tax has been raised from smoking in the past few years:
    http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-public...-from-tobacco/

    Smoking costs the NHS £2billion a year (approx).
    http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_95.pdf

    I'd wager that there are far more smokers than there are drug users, so we've got £8billion in excess tax money that comes from people who use drugs (in this case, nicotine).
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    I take loads of drugs and I don't give a damn. No one's ever given me bigotry but I can feel I'm about to get some from a little dweeb across the internet...
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    And you know what about those tax cash?
    It could have been used to give better free medical care. Improve nation-wide educational standards and provide jobs for more people? Nope. They get used on relapsing crack heads
    Or, alternatively, it could be used to:
    - Offer better rehab facilities for people who need it.
    - Educate people on drugs instead of repeating the old asinine **** of "it's illegal, it's bad, it's wrong, waaaaaaah".
    - Use it provide jobs? Sure. And then give the jobs to people who have come out of rehab so that they have something to do and are less likely to relapse.

    It's a win-win. Less drug users, more people who appreciate that life can be tough and are willing to better themselves and society as a whole.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I never said they all successfully exit, I said it would be in the publics' interest for them to become fully functioning members of society as a result of success rehab instead of wasting taxpayers money in prison (the money that you seem to think can go towards better things. Do you want to save money or not? I'm getting mixed messages).



    Really? Ever seen what a meat cleaver will do a penis?
    Ok, so I was exaggerating a bit, but as I've already said (something I'm getting real ****ing tired of saying) judging drug users and making them feel socially ostracised does not work. It merely deepens their addiction.



    What the hell are you talking about? You don't want people doing drugs so that other people are safe, but you're more than willing to encourage a social attitude that causes people already taking drugs to take more drugs (and thus improve their chances of hospitalisation, and increase their likelihood of committing a crime because they need more money to pay for their increased consumption).

    What kind of backward logic is that?



    It's their choice. They want to ruin their lives, it's no skin off my nose. Should alcohol and nicotine also be made illegal because of the potential to ruin lives?

    I never said that they should be sympathised or empathised with (however, a bit of sympathy would go a long way. Why would they hold group sessions in rehab if it didn't work?)
    1) It would be more of a public interest if these people strayed away from drugs in the first place and didn't create problems that never existed in the first place! There's education, awareness, everything being put around. And still? It's inexcusable for anyone's reason for doing drugs being of choice ("omg I just wanted to try it" , "omg all the cool kids do it) wtf
    2) So what should we say? "no darling, keep doing drugs"?
    Are you still saying rehab would do better than not having the problem exist in the first place?
    3)I'm strongly against alcohol an nicotine as well. I have no idea why they aren't discriminated by others, but I sure as heck hate them as well.
    The problem is, they ruin they're lives AND a lot of other's as well. That IS a skin off EVERYONE'S nose.
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    And to point out your to your foremost argument, lack of bigotry means any individual in society will be drawn to try drugs as it seems to show no consequences, as opposed to when it it socially unacceptable.
    And thus, ANYONE, those suffering from a mental illness or not, will end up doing drugs.
    Yet it doesn't seem to have much impact on usage where laws are liberalised. The mentally ill often already feel like social outcasts so its not such a step to take drugs.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Or, alternatively, it could be used to:
    - Offer better rehab facilities for people who need it.
    - Educate people on drugs instead of repeating the old asinine **** of "it's illegal, it's bad, it's wrong, waaaaaaah".
    - Use it provide jobs? Sure. And then give the jobs to people who have come out of rehab so that they have something to do and are less likely to relapse.

    It's a win-win. Less drug users, more people who appreciate that life can be tough and are willing to better themselves and society as a whole.
    ohmygod.
    Wouldn't it be easier if...
    people. didn't. do. drugs. to. freaking. begin. with. (!!!!!)

    Edit: And in case you STILL don't get my point, Bigotry and social pressures against drugs are like the most PRIMARY thing you can do to stray people away from drugs. IN. THE. FIRST. PLACE.
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    1) It would be more of a public interest if these people strayed away from drugs in the first place and didn't create problems that never existed in the first place! There's education, awareness, everything being put around. And still? It's inexcusable for anyone's reason for doing drugs being of choice ("omg I just wanted to try it" , "omg all the cool kids do it) wtf
    Have you seen the Talk to Frank thing about cannabis? It's hilarious, and rather misinformed. I debunked it a few years ago on here, and people seemed to rather like it so I'm guessing I wasn't wrong in my assessment. Point being, the education could be a hell of a lot better.

    2) So what should we say? "no darling, keep doing drugs"?

    Are you still saying rehab would do better than not having the problem exist in the first place?
    Now you're the one being ridiculous.

    This is the last time I will repeat this, so clean out your ears and listen.

    SOCIAL OSTRACISATION DOES NOT WORK.

    Got it? Your argument is flawed, and you're wrong. Deal. With. It.


    3)I'm strongly against alcohol an nicotine as well. I have no idea why they aren't discriminated by others, but I sure as heck hate them as well.
    The problem is, they ruin they're lives AND a lot of other's as well. That IS a skin off EVERYONE'S nose.
    Again, it's their choice. Unless you fancy living somewhere like the Philippines where the President is calling for everyone to kill drug users you're going to have to deal with people having freedom of choice and facing the responsibility of their actions.

    Doesn't make it right, but I'd rather have a free society than a totalitarian state.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Yet it doesn't seem to have much impact on usage where laws are liberalised. The mentally ill often already feel like social outcasts so its not such a step to take drugs.
    Then let's stop mental illness patients from being outcasts. That will be much more rewarding, and they are Much more a victim of social injustice than a poor lil' crackhead. smh
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    Everyone's choices should be respected, but then they must accept the outcome.

    If someone decides to take drugs, that is fine. However, they should not be given free healthcare. It is the same with alchohol and other things. If you make a decision, you must live with it. It is wrong to make other taxpayers to pay for your lifestyle.

    If people have personal natural mental problems, these should be flagged and taken care off. However, giving them drugs should not be the case.

    We should not live a life of, "Hey, who are you to tell me how to live my life",

    then "Oh, I have overdosed, so can the NHS please give me free healthcare. Thanks taxpayers."
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Everyone's choices should be respected, but then they must accept the outcome.

    If someone decides to take drugs, that is fine. However, they should not be given free healthcare. It is the same with alchohol and other things. If you make a decision, you must live with it. It is wrong to make other taxpayers to pay for your lifestyle.

    If people have personal natural mental problems, these should be flagged and taken care off. However, giving them drugs should not be the case.

    We should not live a life of, "Hey, who are you to tell me how to live my life",

    then "Oh, I have overdosed, so can the NHS please give me free healthcare. Thanks taxpayers."
    Should we stop treating gay HIV patients? How about skiers with broken legs? Horse riders that fall off? Drivers that crash?
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    (Original post by AvWOW)
    Then let's stop mental illness patients from being outcasts. That will be much more rewarding, and they are Much more a victim of social injustice than a poor lil' crackhead. smh
    It'd be nice if we could do both.
 
 
 
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