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Are you for the death penalty in cases of certain guilt? Watch

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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    So let's remove the miscarriages of justice/wrongful conviction risk from the argument and talk about cases where people are certain guilty: where they have been clearly recorded, admit the guilt and DNA evidence fully confirms it.

    Are you for the death penalty in cases such as these where the crime is extremely grave?
    I would support the death penalty if it scared people into not murdering. I'm not sure there is any evidence that that is the case though.
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    No. It's simply that the psychopathy and disorders they have are not considered as mental illnesses in America
    I was talking about the UK where being a psychopath (not that that means anything anymore) could possibly be a defence


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I was talking about the UK...


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    You didn't specify.

    Either way it's the same
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    You didn't specify.

    Either way it's the same
    So if I don't specify you assume I'm talking about a foreign country? Well I'm not sure it's the same; as I said in the UK being a 'psycho' can be a defence, I'm not really sure about US law


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    So if I don't specify you assume I'm talking about a foreign country? Well I'm not sure it's the same; as I said in the UK being a 'psycho' can be a defence, I'm not really sure about US law


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    Seeing as most research into this matter is done by the US... No need to have attitude

    Sure it can be a defence, but in my opinion if you murder someone, you're not mentally stable
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    Seeing as most research into this matter is done by the US... No need to have attitude

    Sure it can be a defence, but in my opinion if you murder someone, you're not mentally stable
    So what about people who are in favour of the death penalty, are they mentally stable?


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    So what about people who are in favour of the death penalty, are they mentally stable?


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    In my opinion, and I'm sure many would disagree, they're two totally different things. But I'm not in favour of it
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    In my opinion, and I'm sure many would disagree, they're two totally different things. But I'm not in favour of it
    Well they are different but not that different. Essentially it means you want someone dead but you just won't/can't do it yourself. However by your logic anyone who becomes an executioner must be unstable


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Well they are different but not that different. Essentially it means you want someone dead but you just won't/can't do it yourself. However by your logic anyone who becomes an executioner must be unstable

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    Haha true, I can't say my ambition in life is to become an executioner!

    I couldn't end someone's life, and also I would rather they suffered in prison than got out of it by the quick fix of death
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    Haha true, I can't say my ambition in life is to become an executioner!

    I couldn't end someone's life, and also I would rather they suffered in prison than got out of it by the quick fix of death
    Punitive justice systems have served us so well to this point...


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Punitive justice systems have served us so well to this point...


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    If someone murdered someone I love, I couldn't care less Id want them to suffer.
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    I think everybody has a right to life, but you forfeit that if you take somebody else's.

    In cases where there has been premeditated murder, yes. 100%.

    In cases where the killer shows little or no remorse for his actions, yes.

    I think for cases where the death could have been accidental (eg we often hear stories of people dying from a single punch in a pub brawl), that if the killer shows genuine remorse and makes a positive contribution to society, probably not... Not sure if it was true or not, but I once saw this documentary about a man on death row in America for 20 years, he taught hundreds of inmates to read and did lots of charity work etc. Seems like a waste to kill him, but equally if it has been my son or daughter he'd murdered, I'd think it would be a gross injustice not to kill him.

    Imo, anyone involved in terror, preaching hate, plotting with jihadist groups, running off the Syria, etc., should be put down straight away (preferably after a nice lengthy and terribly painful interrogation session ^^).
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    If someone murdered someone I love, I couldn't care less Id want them to suffer.
    The justice system is based upon objectiveness, you aren't supposed to consider how you would feel if your friend or family member was the victim

    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I think everybody has a right to life, but you forfeit that if you take somebody else's.

    In cases where there has been premeditated murder, yes. 100%.

    In cases where the killer shows little or no remorse for his actions, yes.

    I think for cases where the death could have been accidental (eg we often hear stories of people dying from a single punch in a pub brawl), that if the killer shows genuine remorse and makes a positive contribution to society, probably not... Not sure if it was true or not, but I once saw this documentary about a man on death row in America for 20 years, he taught hundreds of inmates to read and did lots of charity work etc. Seems like a waste to kill him, but equally if it has been my son or daughter he'd murdered, I'd think it would be a gross injustice not to kill him.

    Imo, anyone involved in terror, preaching hate, plotting with jihadist groups, running off the Syria, etc., should be put down straight away (preferably after a nice lengthy and terribly painful interrogation session ^^).
    How does executing people benefit society?
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The justice system is based upon objectiveness, you aren't supposed to consider how you would feel if your friend or family member was the victim



    How does executing people benefit society?
    Because the justice system isn't flawed at all, I said it was my opinion
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    Because the justice system isn't flawed at all, I said it was my opinion
    Well aside from the punitive punishments I don't really see any glaring problems.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    How does executing people benefit society?
    Why should we have to live in a world with murderers, who do not understand the importance of life? Why should they be allowed to live - considering our prison system is painfully flawed (some people get v small sentences for murder - it's not fair), plus we have to pay for their life and upkeep, and we run the risk of them escaping etc.

    I don't think it benefits society, rather people who are so damaged that they would murder somebody else are a disadvantage to society, they lower the quality of the world. Getting rid of them just makes it better, imo. If you act like anybody else's right to life is not important then neither is yours.

    If nothing else it provides a nice bit of justice for the family, anyway.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Why should we have to live in a world with murderers, who do not understand the importance of life?
    Bit ironic, they don't understand the importance of life because they've killed yet you propose doing the same thing?

    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Why should they be allowed to live - considering our prison system is painfully flawed (some people get v small sentences for murder - it's not fair), plus we have to pay for their life and upkeep, and we run the risk of them escaping etc.
    Very few prisoners escape and there's no evidence that execution would be cheaper, why do people persist with this fallacy.

    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I don't think it benefits society, rather people who are so damaged that they would murder somebody else are a disadvantage to society, they lower the quality of the world. Getting rid of them just makes it better, imo. If you act like anybody else's right to life is not important then neither is yours.
    That doesn't sound good for executioners then.

    (Original post by 1010marina)
    If nothing else it provides a nice bit of justice for the family, anyway.
    Yeah of course the best way to live is in a world where everyone believes in an eye for an eye...


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Bit ironic, they don't understand the importance of life because they've killed yet you propose doing the same thing?



    Very few prisoners escape and there's no evidence that execution would be cheaper, why do people persist with this fallacy.



    That doesn't sound good for executioners then.



    Yeah of course the best way to live is in a world where everyone believes in an eye for an eye...


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    So - a murderer that shows no remorse. What do you want to happen to him? Lock him up forever, or do we try to teach him how to play nice (even though it's quite clear he doesn't want to or doesn't know how to)... For me, I just think the world is better off without their scum.

    I have no respect for people that murder others (as I said before, where there is no doubt about premeditation or remorse etc). I don't believe the death penalty is "murder" in the same way as actual murder - in the same way that people who kill animals are barbaric yet butchers are just doing their job...
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    So - a murderer that shows no remorse. What do you want to happen to him? Lock him up forever, or do we try to teach him how to play nice (even though it's quite clear he doesn't want to or doesn't know how to)... For me, I just think the world is better off without their scum.
    If a person saw someone kill their mother then killed that person a week later they're a murderer and it was premeditated but why is okay for the state to kill that person instead? Surely it's the same thing? How is the world any better off with that person though? If they have family that are willing to forgive them then they can still bring some form of happiness or benefit to their families life, they can also work in prison and do something that benefits society. How does killing them benefit anyone?

    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I have no respect for people that murder others (as I said before, where there is no doubt about premeditation or remorse etc). I don't believe the death penalty is "murder" in the same way as actual murder - in the same way that people who kill animals are barbaric yet butchers are just doing their job...
    It's not murder because it's not unlawful but you propose showing people it's wrong to kill others by doing exactly that. It's like telling a child not to ****ing swear.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    There's a significant difference between someone who takes money and someone who murders/rapes.
    explain?
    what if somebody raped somebody for 2 seconds, compared to somebody who robbed all the money of thousands of people?

    Arguing in favour of capital punishment makes you an over-emotional barbarian but suggesting it should be used against non-murderers shows a lack of civilisation.
    what's emotional about it? it's a sober question of whether somebody deserves to live or not. sometimes, the answer is ultimately "no".

    What gives any of us the right to decide who gets to live? Why should a court get to 'play God'? You do realise prisoners can't vote?
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    1) the state is ultimately the "god" of its geography. the god is the absolute arbiter of what can and can't happen in terms of the law.
    2) I said voting AND resources though.
 
 
 
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