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BREAKING: Rabbi stabbed in France, attacker shouts 'Allahu Akhbar' Watch

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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Can I ask you to picture a world in which, during WWII, the entire male populations of Russia, France, the UK, China, etc. just ran off to Switzerland and the US?

    P.S. Greece and Italy are in Europe. Imo, so are parts of Turkey.



    New refugees -> even more of a problem with terrorists
    Not relevant at all. And you realise the migrants are literally crossing the sea illegally to find better lands?

    You CAN'T "close the door" on Europe, and vice-verse, Merkel didn't "open the door" - she just responded to the crisis that was already occurring, migrants/refugees were crossing the Mediterranean a while before she welcomed them.

    The world would be in a worse state if we had let Italy and Greece out to dry.

    New refugees would be coming to Europe even if we actively said they would be turned away. So you can be all stuck-up and cry about how they're causing problems, but how about offering a realistic solution? And forcibly deporting millions of unregistered people isn't a solution, nor is using NATO warships to shoot refugee boats. I dread to think what the world would look like with people like you in charge.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Not relevant at all. And you realise the migrants are literally crossing the sea illegally to find better lands?
    Leaving their families behind...

    You CAN'T "close the door" on Europe
    I beg to differ. Lets have a unified, armed, European border force, who detain migrants on islands, and don't run a taxi service (unlike the Italian navy).

    The world would be in a worse state if we had let Italy and Greece out to dry.
    So don't leave them out to dry. Make ships turn back before reaching European shores. (I'll repeat that Italy and Greece are in Europe).

    New refugees would be coming to Europe even if we actively said they would be turned away.
    I agree, and so we need to be stronger than just issuing strongly worded messages
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I'm just wondering why you think the 'ideological' tag means the case is worse?

    ie - why you think the unknown motive for shooting two Muslims is lesser than the likely extremist Islamic motive for wounding this Jewish person
    Well in this case the guy shouted "Allahu Ackbar", so it's pretty obviously ideologically motivated. The other one could have been for any reason imaginable. It seems that you don't think there was anything to indicate it being ideologically motivated, or in the name of persecuting Muslims.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Leaving their families behind...



    I beg to differ. Lets have a unified, armed, European border force, who detain migrants on islands, and don't run a taxi service (unlike the Italian navy).



    So don't leave them out to dry. Make ships turn back before reaching European shores. (I'll repeat that Italy and Greece are in Europe).



    I agree, and so we need to be stronger than just issuing strongly worded messages
    How is leaving their families behind relevant? Some of them are, many aren't.

    Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to patrol the massive Mediterranean sea with boats and soldiers, to patrol the shores of Europe, to find and detain illegal immigrants, and to just dump them in Turkey or somewhere? That is not an option, not only would it cost trillions, but it would also be denounced on the world stage for actively fuelling a refugee crisis and forcing Turkey or another country to suffer the full effects, while we also contribute towards the very bombing from which some of these people are running away from, and while we also do nothing to stop the conflict which originally uprooted these peoples' lives.

    You have not thought this through, leaving out Italy/Greece to dry will affect us eventually. Isolationism, as the 1930s has shown us, never prevents the problems of Europe from affecting us, it just delays them and makes them more impactful when they finally hit us.

    You're unqualified to be making such absurd statements about how the entire Mediterranean should be and 'can be' patrolled.

    And your other master solution is 'strongly worded messages'. Lol, you would be a tragic world leader.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Well in this case the guy shouted "Allahu Ackbar", so it's pretty obviously ideologically motivated. The other one could have been for any reason imaginable. It seems that you don't think there was anything to indicate it being ideologically motivated, or in the name of persecuting Muslims.
    So a completely irreligious wife-beating drunk / drug-user makes a crime ideological if he shouts "allah ackbar" before committing an attack, and Islam is to blame?

    There are an insurmountable number of factors contributing to why this person did what he did. Islam was probably one of them, no doubt, but it is not the thing that uprooted his life and made him a killer. From studying past cases, almost all perpetrators of attacks have something go south in their lives before they do these things, which are totally unrelated to Islam.

    Furthermore you didn't explain to me why you think the ideological tag makes it far more worthy of criticism than the one which is obviously anti-Islam but unconfirmed.

    Additionally, going and killing two Muslims outside a mosque is no-doubt an Islamophobic attack, why are you denying this?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    How is leaving their families behind relevant? Some of them are, many aren't.

    Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to patrol the massive Mediterranean sea with boats and soldiers, to patrol the shores of Europe, to find and detain illegal immigrants, and to just dump them in Turkey or somewhere? That is not an option, not only would it cost trillions, but it would also be denounced on the world stage for actively fuelling a refugee crisis and forcing Turkey or another country to suffer the full effects, while we also contribute towards the very bombing from which some of these people are running away from, and while we also do nothing to stop the conflict which originally uprooted these peoples' lives.

    You have not thought this through, leaving out Italy/Greece to dry will affect us eventually. Isolationism, as the 1930s has shown us, never prevents the problems of Europe from affecting us, it just delays them and makes them more impactful when they finally hit us.

    You're unqualified to be making such absurd statements about how the entire Mediterranean should be and 'can be' patrolled.

    And your other master solution is 'strongly worded messages'. Lol, you would be a tragic world leader.
    Trillions? Please, lets not exaggerate

    HOW CLEAR CAN I MAKE THIS TO YOU: ITALY AND GREECE ARE PART OF EUROPE. Where have I said we should leave them out to dry?

    What made you think I was in favour of "strongly worded messages"? I actually said the opposite.

    You want to talk qualifications? What are yours? Honestly, you seem to be having trouble comprehending me, are you really qualified to have a debate in English?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Trillions? Please, lets not exaggerate

    HOW CLEAR CAN I MAKE THIS TO YOU: ITALY AND GREECE ARE PART OF EUROPE. Where have I said we should leave them out to dry?

    What made you think I was in favour of "strongly worded messages"?

    You want to talk qualifications? What are yours? Honestly, you seem to be having trouble comprehending me, are you really qualified to have a debate in English?
    I've made the point clear already. Migrants are coming over the sea, whether we want them or not. They would collect in Greece and Italy, just as they were doing before it emerged in the political spotlight. You're basically proposing that Merkel shouldn't have done what she did, this means that these migrants would not be allowed to travel through Europe, and they would be stuck in these two countries - straining their resources and economies.

    And I have no need to state qualifications, I'm not the one claiming it is economically and politically viable to patrol the Mediterranean 24/7 and send back refugees to Turkey.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I've made the point clear already. Migrants are coming over the sea, whether we want them or not. They would collect in Greece and Italy, just as they were doing before it emerged in the political spotlight. You're basically proposing that Merkel shouldn't have done what she did, this means that these migrants would not be allowed to travel through Europe, and they would be stuck in these two countries - straining their resources and economies.

    And I have no need to state qualifications, I'm not the one claiming it is economically and politically viable to patrol the Mediterranean 24/7 and send back refugees to Turkey.
    If they arrive in Italy/Greece, they should be sent to a European funded detention centre, on a remote island. No need for Italy/Greece to bear the full burden, nor for Turkey to recieve them back, since they'll only try to break into Europe again
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    If they arrive in Italy/Greece, they should be sent to a European funded detention centre, on a remote island. No need for Italy/Greece to bear the full burden, nor for Turkey to recieve them back, since they'll only try to break into Europe again
    So we are going to start putting refugees in prison? Do you have even a glimpse of the political consequences of that? The entire world would denounce us, probably even China as well.

    And that is ignoring the massive logistical cost of rounding up these immigrants, and giving them a fair trial - which they are entitled to. Unless you want to strip away their human rights too? And which government is in charge of rounding them up? There's no way to exempt Greece/Italy from the equation, their governments would have to do most of the collecting.

    And its all an indirect result of a conflict that our leaders started back in 2004.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    So we are going to start putting refugees in prison? Do you have even a glimpse of the political consequences of that? The entire world would denounce us, probably even China as well.

    And that is ignoring the massive logistical cost of rounding up these immigrants, and giving them a fair trial - which they are entitled to. Unless you want to strip away their human rights too? And which government is in charge of rounding them up? There's no way to exempt Greece/Italy from the equation, their governments would have to do most of the collecting.

    And its all an indirect result of a conflict that our leaders started back in 2004.
    Israel and Australia put migrants in detention centres. And hey, they're apparently fleeing a war, surely they'd be happy to stay in a detention centre where its safe, so they can return home when the war is over.

    Sure, it'll be expensive. But its cheaper than letting them come to Europe, especially since, once here, they will just encourage more people to come
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    (Original post by JustAStudent14)
    I certainly hope by "them" you're not referring to Muslims in general.
    No, you misunderstood my comment, I was talking about the perpetrator, although TBH I wouldn't mind seeing all people on the terror watch list treated that way, perhaps we might actually manage to prevent any more attacks if we did that.
    But to answer your question, no not all muslims.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    When was the last time the news broke a story about a jew stabbing a muslim though?

    Gotta love the media's selection bias.
    Give me an example of a Jew stabbing a Muslim recently.

    I'll save you the time - there aren't any.
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    (Original post by BobSausage)
    No, you misunderstood my comment, I was talking about the perpetrator, although TBH I wouldn't mind seeing all people on the terror watch list treated that way, perhaps we might actually manage to prevent any more attacks if we did that.
    But to answer your question, no not all muslims.
    How sadistic. Fortunately we as a society have risen above barbarity. Ironically, ISIS use the same sort of "punish them with the like of that with which you were afflicted" maxim to justify their cruelty. What difference will there be between us and them if we did as you're suggesting?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Israel and Australia put migrants in detention centres. And hey, they're apparently fleeing a war, surely they'd be happy to stay in a detention centre where its safe, so they can return home when the war is over.

    Sure, it'll be expensive. But its cheaper than letting them come to Europe, especially since, once here, they will just encourage more people to come
    We simply don't have the resources to collect and imprison 1.6 million people, nor do we have the political leverage to do it because 'they are migrants', it would spark worldwide condemnation, especially given that half the world puts us as responsible for the migration in the first place.

    Letting them come into Europe is the only option, but if you people would just suck it up and realise that your problems are not the fault of migrants and rather your own governments who are trying to capitalise both healthcare and education as a commodity rather than a necessity, then we would be living in a finer world.
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    (Original post by The_JoKeR)
    The attacker must have some kind of a mental disorder...
    #Notallmentalpatients
    #Psychosisofpeace
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    Oh, ffs. I'm not sure the French people are going to stand for this for much longer...
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    (Original post by JustAStudent14)
    nah Jews don't stab muslims, they walk into their countries, terrorise them, steal their land and bomb the remaining part of land they have.
    If you truly think that this is the case, then I feel sorry for you.
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    (Original post by IYGB)
    He is a mad Bhuddist
    Is this some kind of whataboutery about the backlash against the Rohingya? If so I suggest you do some research, the Rohingya have been waging jihad against the native Buddhists for decades, now it's come back to bite them.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I'll try and find the report

    But as I said 'apparently it has been reported'

    But as we don't know why I think you are a little preemptive claiming it 'was because of their faith'

    But this has nothing to do with the OP other than to derail the thread to make Muslim look like victims (which in this case they are NOT)
    can you please explain how are muslims not victims, please? I don't understand
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    (Original post by greys-anatomy)
    can you please explain how are muslims not victims, please? I don't understand
    you are claim they are victims BECAUSE they are Muslims

    we do not know this is actually the case
 
 
 
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