Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    1) The money that actually gets paid to the EU is £367 million. Vote Leave rounded it to 350.

    According to the Office For National Statistics which is the recognised national institute for the UK and responsible for collecting UK economy statistics -
    UK balance of payments - 2015:

    Table 9.9 which shows the UK's Total debits to the EU at £19.9 billion in 2014.
    This works out at £367 million per week.

    Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nation...ntsthepinkbook

    The EU is undemocratic. It dictates what the money paid for by tax payers returned to Britain in rebate should be spent on.
    The rebate comes back after being discussed by EU, and sometimes delayed.
    The money does come back only if we follow certain EU rules.



    The amount of money UK paid to EU in 2014:

    £55 million a day to the EU as a gross contribution.

    £21 million a day comes back to UK in rebates

    The NET figure was £34 million per every single day.
    = £10 billion a year

    ^^^ That is way too much and it should be spent on our own priorities and our own people.

    2) It is inconsiderate and uncaring of you to think we should never listen to the British lower class, let their living standards decrease and not care about their GP appointment difficulties because they are unemployed.
    Their chances of being employed have decreased due to very high numbers of immigrants, large amounts of money unneccessarily paid to EU and lack of job opportunities. Job agencies are also flooded. Communities have changed. Primary school places are under pressure.

    3) Immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take from it???
    No they do not. You are wrong. Not all immigrants contribute more to the economy. Look at the cost of the Tax credit benefits. Tax credits costed £1.1 billion in 1999. In 2014 tax credits now cost UK £30 billion pounds.

    3) Yes. Some immigrants work really hard. Some do not. Some commit crimes. Some claim benefits. Some are lovely. Some are unskilled. The hard working immigrants are already here. and we also have British people. That does not mean we should continue having open borders to 508 million people which any one of them could come, and we have no control of the amount.

    4) The solution to these problems is to leave the EU and single market. And to follow an Australian points based system instead.
    Last year, 189,000 people immigrated to Australia. 67% of those people were skilled professionals. A further 17% were trades people with the skills that Australia wanted. That is a country that went to their employers, identified what their country needs and been able to set a target for the country's development.

    5) I myself didnt blame immigrants. I blamed the government, uncontrolled borders, EU payments, the European Union and Single market. Maybe you should do some more research into all of these areas instead of listening to the BBC and the typical gibberish.
    TL, DR. IDGAF about the specific figures of how much money goes to the EU. That's not the point of your discussion. TBH, with a Muslim name like Naveed, I think you should be ashamed of listening to any of the BS coming from the BNP.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    At what point do we scrap the NHS? Maybe limit it to children only?

    I love the idea of the NHS but the costs are astronomical and its abused so much politcally and financially. People live long and our old people are only going to get older and live longer which is kinda ironic, in theory the better it performs the more it costs and will have to perform again
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    At what point do we scrap the NHS? Maybe limit it to children only?

    I love the idea of the NHS but the costs are astronomical and its abused so much politcally and financially. People live long and our old people are only going to get older and live longer which is kinda ironic, in theory the better it performs the more it costs and will have to perform again
    State funded health insurance system seems to way to go, like our Singaporian and Swiss pals (not the US).

    Would avoid foreigners being scapegoated lol
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes it's the Tory's fault that's why real spending has increased under the Tory government since they took power from labour.
    Attachment 574240
    Isn't that just in line with inflation. Planned hasn't come into fruition yet.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    At what point do we scrap the NHS? Maybe limit it to children only?

    I love the idea of the NHS but the costs are astronomical and its abused so much politcally and financially. People live long and our old people are only going to get older and live longer which is kinda ironic, in theory the better it performs the more it costs and will have to perform again
    There was a (very good IMO) idea floated around a while ago about the NHS becoming the responsibility of a cross party health board rather than the govt of the day.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by asif007)
    TL, DR. IDGAF about the specific figures of how much money goes to the EU. That's not the point of your discussion. TBH, with a Muslim name like Naveed, I think you should be ashamed of listening to any of the BS coming from the BNP.
    How ignorant of you for not bothering to read my whole post which states why you are wrong. I spent a long time writing that post. The only thing you can say is "TL, DR (Didnt read). IDGAF". You are in denial of the truth and very ignorant indeed.

    Im not listening to the BNP. Im listening to what the average British citizens in that video feel. You are again wrong. The things that were said in that video came from the average British public.

    I dont agree with the BNP at all in most areas, but I do have an open mind and they do have some good points when it comes to standing up for our living standards and realising that our EU supporting government is wrecking British people's lives.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Isn't that just in line with inflation. Planned hasn't come into fruition yet.
    No real spending is adjusted for inflation
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    At what point do we scrap the NHS? Maybe limit it to children only?

    I love the idea of the NHS but the costs are astronomical and its abused so much politcally and financially. People live long and our old people are only going to get older and live longer which is kinda ironic, in theory the better it performs the more it costs and will have to perform again
    What happens if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment? Do we really want to be a nation that lets people die if they can't afford treatment?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JamesN88)
    There was a (very good IMO) idea floated around a while ago about the NHS becoming the responsibility of a cross party health board rather than the govt of the day.
    Seems a good idea but you just know that would run into similar problems
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    What happens if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment? Do we really want to be a nation that lets people die if they can't afford treatment?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I don't know but its going to get the point anyway unless this generation eat themselves to death and die quickly

    It just seems like a big ponzi scheme to me, i have mentioned this before in relation to immigrants helping the NHS by paying more in. Its all well in good until they and you retire and need the NHS now have an even bigger drain on the NHS = Twice the number of young net+ paying contrbuting workers again ad infinitum.

    I dont have the answer, i just see a huge problem
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I don't know but its going to get the point anyway unless this generation eat themselves to death and die quickly

    It just seems like a big ponzi scheme to me, i have mentioned this before in relation to immigrants helping the NHS by paying more in. Its all well in good until they and you retire and need the NHS now have an even bigger drain on the NHS = Twice the number of young net+ paying contrbuting workers again ad infinitum.

    I dont have the answer, i just see a huge problem
    Before we propose abolishing it, you need to have a system to make sure people don't die if they get ill.

    With an edging population we need more people in work, paying taxes and immigrants by and large do that. The immigrants that come here tend to be younger and don't use the NHS much

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Before we propose abolishing it, you need to have a system to make sure people don't die if they get ill.

    With an edging population we need more people in work, paying taxes and immigrants by and large do that. The immigrants that come here tend to be younger and don't use the NHS much

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Heh dont worry i dont have the power of abolishing it, yes i know working people including immigrants as a whole pay more into it.. my point is that X years when they retire... you now have an even bigger group of pensioners to fund.. now what? More working immigrants! Great..

    And when they retire, you now have an even bigger number of pensioners to fund..

    Don't worry i have a solution, whats our population again? 109 million sir, we are building upwards now and housing 8 people to every "Traditional" 3 bedroom home

    Dont worry, our GDP is much bigger though
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You are right I do want a immigration policy what helps this country.

    Having a immigration policy that actually works is not discriminatory, saying yes you are European and unskilled you can come in but you the African doctor can't is discrimination, what country are you from? You have said you aren't from Great Britain.
    Not what I meant. I meant the EU is very clear and strict regarding access to the market - only with free movement of people. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. That is all I was saying regarding your dream of a discriminatory immigration policy. And yes saying "we dont want another plumber you cant come, but you a doc can come". That is discriminatory (its not racially discriminatory but i never said that).
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    immigrants are not the problem in the NHS... health tourism is a tiny tiny problem and barely noticeable in terms of overall NHS spending and as for long term economic migrants, they pay in more than they take out so overall they are helping not creating a problem

    as far as actual strain on the NHS - this is down to people in general being stupid and wasting time, going to the doctors every time they have a cough or cold or insisting on seeing a doctor when a nurse would be fine which then leads to people ending up in A&E cos they couldn't get an appointment with a GP, oh and the idiots who call ambulances or go to A&E for stupid reasons, combine this with an aging population

    the real problem however is just that the NHS is underfunded and poorly managed, the torys won't prioritise a national health service and won't or can't give it the funding it needs to run well, there is also lots of bureaucratic nonsense and massive amounts of money are wasted in the NHS
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Heh dont worry i dont have the power of abolishing it, yes i know working people including immigrants as a whole pay more into it.. my point is that X years when they retire... you now have an even bigger group of pensioners to fund.. now what? More working immigrants! Great..

    And when they retire, you now have an even bigger number of pensioners to fund..

    Don't worry i have a solution, whats our population again? 109 million sir, we are building upwards now and housing 8 people to every "Traditional" 3 bedroom home

    Dont worry, our GDP is much bigger though
    A lot of immigrants actually return home when they stop working. The immigrants that come here are fairly young, they work and pay taxes and don't tend to use the NHS much. Conversely British immigrants in countries such as Spain tend to be far older and do use the health service more.


    There is no easy answer, but I can tell you for certain that abolishing the NHS isn't viable. Do we really want to be a country that lets people die from a cureable disease if they can't afford treatment?

    The NHS is also a fiscal multiplier, which helps the economy. If people are healthier, they are more productive at work. Abolishing the NHS would not just be morally abhorrent, but economically disastrous.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by doodle_333)
    immigrants are not the problem in the NHS... health tourism is a tiny tiny problem and barely noticeable in terms of overall NHS spending and as for long term economic migrants, they pay in more than they take out so overall they are helping not creating a problem

    as far as actual strain on the NHS - this is down to people in general being stupid and wasting time, going to the doctors every time they have a cough or cold or insisting on seeing a doctor when a nurse would be fine which then leads to people ending up in A&E cos they couldn't get an appointment with a GP, oh and the idiots who call ambulances or go to A&E for stupid reasons, combine this with an aging population

    the real problem however is just that the NHS is underfunded and poorly managed, the torys won't prioritise a national health service and won't or can't give it the funding it needs to run well, there is also lots of bureaucratic nonsense and massive amounts of money are wasted in the NHS
    Long term economic migrants pay in more than they take out???
    Yes, some probably do. But there are also unskilled, benefit claiming immigrants that we need to consider too.

    Not all immigrants contribute more to the economy. Look at the cost of the Tax credit benefits. Tax credits costed £1.1 billion in 1999. In 2014, tax credits now cost UK a massive £30 billion pounds. Having open borders is increasing these costs and affecting the economy and public services.

    Some immigrants work really hard. Some might not. Some claim benefits. Some commit crimes and some are unskilled. The hard working immigrants are already here. and we also have British people. That does not mean we should continue having open borders and open NHS service to 508 million people which any one of them could come, and we have no control of the amount.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    Not what I meant. I meant the EU is very clear and strict regarding access to the market - only with free movement of people. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. That is all I was saying regarding your dream of a discriminatory immigration policy. And yes saying "we dont want another plumber you cant come, but you a doc can come". That is discriminatory (its not racially discriminatory but i never said that).
    I will happily discriminate against a plumber if it means we get an extra doctor.
    You may see a border free world as something that would be amazing but the truth is it will never happen and if it ever did happen it would only cause conflicts.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    A lot of immigrants actually return home when they stop working. The immigrants that come here are fairly young, they work and pay taxes and don't tend to use the NHS much. Conversely British immigrants in countries such as Spain tend to be far older and do use the health service more.


    There is no easy answer, but I can tell you for certain that abolishing the NHS isn't viable. Do we really want to be a country that lets people die from a cureable disease if they can't afford treatment?

    The NHS is also a fiscal multiplier, which helps the economy. If people are healthier, they are more productive at work. Abolishing the NHS would not just be morally abhorrent, but economically disastrous.
    Yes but many stay. A small number of EU immigrants are here short term but its not guaranteed and elsewhere thats not the case.

    British pensioners do not have access to free healthcare in Spain like they would here

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...alth-care.html

    Furthermore, the amount of wealth these pensioners brings to Spain is massive and huge net positive for Spain financially

    Agree on your last point
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I will happily discriminate against a plumber if it means we get an extra doctor.
    You may see a border free world as something that would be amazing but the truth is it will never happen and if it ever did happen it would only cause conflicts.
    But it is wholly irrelevant what you want.

    The point is you can't have both. You will not get access to the free market and the discriminatory immigration policy that so many Brexiters want.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by inhuman)
    But it is wholly irrelevant what you want.

    The point is you can't have both. You will not get access to the free market and the discriminatory immigration policy that so many Brexiters want.
    You talk as if a government doing their job and protecting the citizens with a proper immigration policy is a bad thing.

    Merkel the eu's supreme leader is under pressure to give us a good deal and not cut us off from the single market.

    You do know nations have free trade with the eu who are not members of the eu like South Korea and they do not have the free movement of people.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.