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    (Original post by KatieBlogger)
    On the contrary, they have. ""

    (seriously, what's the point of the patronising emoti?)
    They're going into medicine or at least they hope so and they don't fully grasp its beauty and complexity rather they think memorisation is a key aspect/the main aspect. The whole A level biology on steroids is frankly a bit rude to those who study it and also rude for those prospective students who dream of studying medicine and what it entails by just diminishing it to what OP quoted.

    Memorisation is just one aspect. If you think memorising thousands of pages and not understanding a single thing or having any concept of empathy or sound clinical skills is what gets a good grade in a medical degree then you're delusional. Not every patient has a Ddx that matches what you read in the cheese and onion (OHCM). Ethics? Is that memorisation? Certainly not. Building sound rapports with patients? Memorisation? No. Clinical examinations of ill patients who are so scared and feel alone and they find comfort in you. Memorisation? No. These are skills that not every person has. How many people do you know can operate near the brainstem knowing that if they make a mistake the person dies? Most people are scared if an exam question comes up and they haven't revised and think it's the end of the world. How many more do you know can do that, make a mistake, swallow it and go on to try and save the next person. Some medical degrees have compulsory intercalations where you do research or otherwise and seeing you sometimes jump into the 3rd year of a lot of bachelor courses, perhaps that gives you an indication of what other degrees and academics who run such courses think of the skills and knowledge of medical students.


    If you think the degree isn't hard then fair enough, but consider the various facets before you make stupid rash generalisations based off some crappy thing someone told you. You need to be sharp, adept and have a big heart to just get through medschool. Most people here wouldn't even be able to do half the things you do in first sem of first year, probably breaking down when they see a cadaver or seeing a patient die whilst on placement yet they come on here to diminish the degree. I'm not here to say it's better or harder than other degrees, rather respect it for what it is and don't jump to conclusions if you don't know.
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Please elaborate on what there's done above memorisation?
    Read my reply to another poster on this thread further down. It isn't exhaustive by any means but seriously if you think memorisation is all there is, medschool may be a bit of a shock.
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    Economics, PPE, Sociology and Medicine.
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    (Original post by ChkATM)
    Read my reply to another poster on this thread further down. It isn't exhaustive by any means but seriously if you think memorisation is all there is, medschool may be a bit of a shock.
    I genuinely think he's trolling if he's going to claim it's just memorisation. There's no point entertaining him tbh
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    (Original post by ChkATM)
    They're going into medicine or at least they hope so and they don't fully grasp its beauty and complexity rather they think memorisation is a key aspect/the main aspect. The whole A level biology on steroids is frankly a bit rude to those who study it and also rude for those prospective students who dream of studying medicine and what it entails by just diminishing it to what OP quoted.

    Memorisation is just one aspect. If you think memorising thousands of pages and not understanding a single thing or having any concept of empathy or sound clinical skills is what gets a good grade in a medical degree then you're delusional. Not every patient has a Ddx that matches what you read in the cheese and onion (OHCM). Ethics? Is that memorisation? Certainly not. Building sound rapports with patients? Memorisation? No. Clinical examinations of ill patients who are so scared and feel alone and they find comfort in you. Memorisation? No. These are skills that not every person has. How many people do you know can operate near the brainstem knowing that if they make a mistake the person dies? Most people are scared if an exam question comes up and they haven't revised and think it's the end of the world. How many more do you know can do that, make a mistake, swallow it and go on to try and save the next person. Some medical degrees have compulsory intercalations where you do research or otherwise and seeing you sometimes jump into the 3rd year of a lot of bachelor courses, perhaps that gives you an indication of what other degrees and academics who run such courses think of the skills and knowledge of medical students.


    If you think the degree isn't hard then fair enough, but consider the various facets before you make stupid rash generalisations based off some crappy thing someone told you. You need to be sharp, adept and have a big heart to just get through medschool. Most people here wouldn't even be able to do half the things you do in first sem of first year, probably breaking down when they see a cadaver or seeing a patient die whilst on placement yet they come on here to diminish the degree. I'm not here to say it's better or harder than other degrees, rather respect it for what it is and don't jump to conclusions if you don't know.
    Lol, I currently work as a healthcare assistant. I'd wager I've seen more of the bad side of things healthcare related than most med students and not all (in fact probably a minority of) doctors have patient skills yet they passed med school and are not some special breed.

    It is what it is. You might not like it but the main academic skill tested by a medical degree is rote memorisation.
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    Law is only a top degree if you went to a top university, other than that you might as well do an apprenticeship tbh to become a lawyer.
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    (Original post by ChkATM)
    They're going into medicine or at least they hope so and they don't fully grasp its beauty and complexity rather they think memorisation is a key aspect/the main aspect. The whole A level biology on steroids is frankly a bit rude to those who study it and also rude for those prospective students who dream of studying medicine and what it entails by just diminishing it to what OP quoted.

    Memorisation is just one aspect. If you think memorising thousands of pages and not understanding a single thing or having any concept of empathy or sound clinical skills is what gets a good grade in a medical degree then you're delusional. Not every patient has a Ddx that matches what you read in the cheese and onion (OHCM). Ethics? Is that memorisation? Certainly not. Building sound rapports with patients? Memorisation? No. Clinical examinations of ill patients who are so scared and feel alone and they find comfort in you. Memorisation? No. These are skills that not every person has. How many people do you know can operate near the brainstem knowing that if they make a mistake the person dies? Most people are scared if an exam question comes up and they haven't revised and think it's the end of the world. How many more do you know can do that, make a mistake, swallow it and go on to try and save the next person. Some medical degrees have compulsory intercalations where you do research or otherwise and seeing you sometimes jump into the 3rd year of a lot of bachelor courses, perhaps that gives you an indication of what other degrees and academics who run such courses think of the skills and knowledge of medical students.


    If you think the degree isn't hard then fair enough, but consider the various facets before you make stupid rash generalisations based off some crappy thing someone told you. You need to be sharp, adept and have a big heart to just get through medschool. Most people here wouldn't even be able to do half the things you do in first sem of first year, probably breaking down when they see a cadaver or seeing a patient die whilst on placement yet they come on here to diminish the degree. I'm not here to say it's better or harder than other degrees, rather respect it for what it is and don't jump to conclusions if you don't know.

    I'm a qualified Nurse about to start my MBChB this Sept. I've worked in healthcare for quite a while, first as a HCA, then as a Nurse and soon as a med student.

    With regards to ethics, I know plenty of HCPs with zero ethics - they tow the line and do their work by the book but outside of work they're as ethical as a chair leg and wouldn't know their Diogenes from their Comte if it hit them square in the face. Med students and other HCPs do not study ethics in an academic sense - they don't study it anywhere near to the level that Law students, for example, do (as per their chosen course, it's more vocational than academic).

    Clinical skills/building rapport with patients/good bedside manner is not something unique to Medicine or being a doctor and it doesn't take a genius especially if you're a naturally empathetic and tactful person. I've met dozens of HCAs, care support workers, ALPs etc with excellent patient rapport, clinical skills, bed side manner and professionalism.

    As for a Ddx not matching with OHCM, no, of course they don't all present in an obvious way. Same as when I take my car to a mechanic I don't expect them to whip out Haynes and point to the problem straight away. No job has a handbook that will spell everything out for every problem (case) they have - not for a checkout worker, a teacher, mechanic...doctor. If life worked that way, we wouldn't need doctors at all. Everyone has to use their brain/initiative/common sense etc to apply their knowledge.

    Medicine is massively competitive because it's oversubscribed, because it's NHS funded, because it's seen as 'prestigious', because it's a well paid career, because it's an attractive career, because it's a worthwhile vocation etc. It's hard to get a place due to those things and due to the fact that universities have increased the grade requirements substantially to cope with the number of applicants and added extra entrance testing (UKCAT/BMAT/GAMSAT...). The fact is - people got in to med school with ABB in the 1980's (now you can argue all you like about the devaluation of A grades but I won't and don't buy it). Medicine is just simply no more academically challenging than say, Physics. In fact, I would argue that it is less so.

    Yes, Medicine is more likely to be much more emotionally/personally challenging than an academic non-vocational course, that's hardly up for debate though and not anything to do with the point that the other user made - which was simply that Medicine is overrated (I assume they mean academically) because it is mostly memorizing.Of course doctors need to be emotionally resilient and have good clinical skills etc- but the same can be said for Nursing. OT, ODP, PT, Paramedics etc and that has nothing to do with whether Medicine is really as academically challenging as most people assume.


    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    Lol, I currently work as a healthcare assistant. I'd wager I've seen more of the bad side of things healthcare related than most med students and not all (in fact probably a minority of) doctors have patient skills yet they passed med school and are not some special breed.It is what it is. You might not like it but the main academic skill tested by a medical degree is rote memorisation.
    Exactly. HCAs see the full reality of patient care practically as soon as they start the job and are thrown into the deep end with minimal training or support, med students are practically wrapped in cotton wool in comparison especially at schools where the first year is mostly lecture based. As an example, I did some manual handling training (1 day course on how to hoist, use slide sheets etc) as a HCA before bed bathing a dying dementia patient on my first shift. No info about dementia, end of life care, personal care, etc. That kind of emotional roller coaster didn't take me 5 years of med school to come to terms with/prepare for - I just had to get on with it.
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    (Original post by ChkATM)
    Read my reply to another poster on this thread further down. It isn't exhaustive by any means but seriously if you think memorisation is all there is, medschool may be a bit of a shock.
    Are you suggesting that simple social skills is more difficult than quantum mechanics?
    pre-clinical medicine is all memorisation.
    Clinical medicine is simple social skills combined with a rinse and repeat method on all practical tasks eg steps to diagnose a patient, how to prevent transmission of disease etc.

    The money that's associated with being a Doctor is why many people do medicine. All those junior doctors stirring up **** in London over legislation on their pay when they will earn double the average salary by around age 30 says it all.
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    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    Lol, I currently work as a healthcare assistant. I'd wager I've seen more of the bad side of things healthcare related than most med students and not all (in fact probably a minority of) doctors have patient skills yet they passed med school and are not some special breed.

    It is what it is. You might not like it but the main academic skill tested by a medical degree is rote memorisation.
    Well, here's something we agree on.
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    (Original post by SalazarSlytherin)
    medicine easily

    who the **** wants to examine penises for a living
    Women.
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    (Original post by The Sexathlete)
    Law is only a top degree if you went to a top university, other than that you might as well do an apprenticeship tbh to become a lawyer.
    You can't become a solicitor/barrister after an apprenticeship, you need a law degree or GDL


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    (Original post by KatieBlogger)
    I'm a qualified Nurse about to start my MBChB this Sept. I've worked in healthcare for quite a while, first as a HCA, then as a Nurse and soon as a med student.

    With regards to ethics, I know plenty of HCPs with zero ethics - they tow the line and do their work by the book but outside of work they're as ethical as a chair leg and wouldn't know their Diogenes from their Comte if it hit them square in the face. Med students and other HCPs do not study ethics in an academic sense - they don't study it anywhere near to the level that Law students, for example, do (as per their chosen course, it's more vocational than academic).

    Clinical skills/building rapport with patients/good bedside manner is not something unique to Medicine or being a doctor and it doesn't take a genius especially if you're a naturally empathetic and tactful person. I've met dozens of HCAs, care support workers, ALPs etc with excellent patient rapport, clinical skills, bed side manner and professionalism.

    As for a Ddx not matching with OHCM, no, of course they don't all present in an obvious way. Same as when I take my car to a mechanic I don't expect them to whip out Haynes and point to the problem straight away. No job has a handbook that will spell everything out for every problem (case) they have - not for a checkout worker, a teacher, mechanic...doctor. If life worked that way, we wouldn't need doctors at all. Everyone has to use their brain/initiative/common sense etc to apply their knowledge.

    Medicine is massively competitive because it's oversubscribed, because it's NHS funded, because it's seen as 'prestigious', because it's a well paid career, because it's an attractive career, because it's a worthwhile vocation etc. It's hard to get a place due to those things and due to the fact that universities have increased the grade requirements substantially to cope with the number of applicants and added extra entrance testing (UKCAT/BMAT/GAMSAT...). The fact is - people got in to med school with ABB in the 1980's (now you can argue all you like about the devaluation of A grades but I won't and don't buy it). Medicine is just simply no more academically challenging than say, Physics. In fact, I would argue that it is less so.

    Yes, Medicine is more likely to be much more emotionally/personally challenging than an academic non-vocational course, that's hardly up for debate though and not anything to do with the point that the other user made - which was simply that Medicine is overrated (I assume they mean academically) because it is mostly memorizing.Of course doctors need to be emotionally resilient and have good clinical skills etc- but the same can be said for Nursing. OT, ODP, PT, Paramedics etc and that has nothing to do with whether Medicine is really as academically challenging as most people assume.




    Exactly. HCAs see the full reality of patient care practically as soon as they start the job and are thrown into the deep end with minimal training or support, med students are practically wrapped in cotton wool in comparison especially at schools where the first year is mostly lecture based. As an example, I did some manual handling training (1 day course on how to hoist, use slide sheets etc) as a HCA before bed bathing a dying dementia patient on my first shift. No info about dementia, end of life care, personal care, etc. That kind of emotional roller coaster didn't take me 5 years of med school to come to terms with/prepare for - I just had to get on with it.
    Fact is I'm a student years into the MBChB and whilst that's a weak argument it has some strength in that I've experienced a significant portion of the course at first hand rather than others here who haven't. Some of your points do not take into account that you are perhaps an outlier and in fact some of your points are invalid since you can't accurately gauge what is required at uni or how academic medschool is until you get there. Basing knowledge off the clinical setting, who you work with and your past experience with some doctors does not assume what you think medschool will be like.

    I'd have to disagree that academic ethics is negligible on the course. I think people dismiss it and give priority to the area of medicine they're interested in but many do have solid grounding in ethics.

    You do raise some valid points, but medicine no more academic than physics??? Come on seriously. Define academic? If you can define that then perhaps you can justify why medicine isn't as academic as you think, otherwise frankly it's just a random statement being used in an argument to devalue medicine. The assumption that you think people apply just for this so called prestige and guaranteed job at the end lol, if you ever speak to your cohort you'll find out that it isn't the case at all. Medicine is not overrated academically since there is a ridiculous plethora of area you can jump into, in fact research in most of those fields is the reason we're alive for some things. Most courses cover pharmacology, anatomy, histology, physiology in as much depth as those seperate degrees at undergrad level!

    So as for OP saying medicine is overrated academically and you agreeing, perhaps you should do a few years of the MBChB then judge. In the meantime, stop saying its overrated because you don't know. If you still believe so in a few years then fair play, I respect your decision.

    Take care and I wish you well in September, though I've started already so spare a thought
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    MBA- most of it just basic book keeping, marketing and management
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    (Original post by momoneyme89)
    MBA- most of it just basic book keeping, marketing and management
    yh, but an MBA is basically just a career reset button or a 1-2 year networking sesh, everyone knows this.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by CharlieGEM)
    Lol, I currently work as a healthcare assistant. I'd wager I've seen more of the bad side of things healthcare related than most med students and not all (in fact probably a minority of) doctors have patient skills yet they passed med school and are not some special breed.

    It is what it is. You might not like it but the main academic skill tested by a medical degree is rote memorisation.
    You got a list of every medschool curriculum? All exam papers? OSCE stations? A complete overview of the content taught?

    You might not like it, but unless you can provide hard evidence that is statistically significant to prove your point, your argument is invalid.
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Are you suggesting that simple social skills is more difficult than quantum mechanics?
    pre-clinical medicine is all memorisation.
    Clinical medicine is simple social skills combined with a rinse and repeat method on all practical tasks eg steps to diagnose a patient, how to prevent transmission of disease etc.

    The money that's associated with being a Doctor is why many people do medicine. All those junior doctors stirring up **** in London over legislation on their pay when they will earn double the average salary by around age 30 says it all.
    Do you like Gorgonzola? Sorry thought we were exchanging irrelevant statements for a second there....
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    Most Overrated: PPE (you may as well keep doing A Levels you're doing so many subjects), Law

    Most Underrated: Philosophy, Literae Humaniores (Classics) - at Oxford, the hardest degree in the country
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    How is learning galois theorem ever going to help you balance a financial statement? Or set up a very simple DCF model that a 12 year old could probably set up?

    Finance is quite helpful actually.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Are you on the wind up?

    Because you are processing and learning something extremely complicated, so that when you look at a DCF its an absolute joke and you understand it in 1 second.
 
 
 
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