Who is a Jew?

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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Because European Jews are a distinct ethnic group and anybody with Jewish lineage should be recognised as partly Jewish by ethnicity.
    Why? For what purpose? Who cares if you're great grandma was a Jew?
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Not really, the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe expanded far and wide, but still remained a homogenous ethnic group with the same religious customs and culture.

    Jews are unique because despite not having their own nation for many centuries, Jewish culture and Jewish communities still remained intact.
    As do the cultures of many other ethnic groups. There's nothing remotely unique about Jews in that respect.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    As do the cultures of many other ethnic groups. There's nothing remotely unique about Jews in that respect.
    Umm I don't think so, the only other ones I can think of are Kurds and nomadic groups of Africa.

    Anyway the main point of this thread was not to show how Jewish law does not necessarily dictate who is Jewish.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Why? For what purpose? Who cares if you're great grandma was a Jew?
    I have chosen to edit my original response to this question.

    Basically, the reason why I am singling out Jews is because they are arguably the most persecuted ethnic group in all of history. For someone like myself, who is ethnically Jewish, but not Jewish according to Orthodox Judaism which has profound influence over Israel, I am in a very difficult situation.

    I can experience antisemitism just like a halackic/matrilinieal Jew can, but will never be fully accepted as Jewish in ANY sense by many Jews who define a Jew purely by halackic law. I'm in a catch-22 situation. To most antisemities (i.e. the alt-right) I am a Jew. But to many Jews, I am a gentile.

    That's why I feel so strongly about all this.
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    I'm about a quarter Jewish IIRC. I look very Jewish though and have been mistaken for a rabbi on a few occasions.

    (Original post by forever_confused)
    were the original jews Egyptian? because Moses was Egyptian right?
    :lolwut:

    (Original post by jambojim97)
    In a religious and cultural sense, yes. By ethnicity, no. The exception would be for Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) who are a distinct community of Africans who have distant ancestry from the original Jews of Ancient Israel.
    What about Sephardim?
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    I'm about a quarter Jewish IIRC. I look very Jewish though and have been mistaken for a rabbi on a few occasions.

    :lolwut:

    What about Sephardim?
    Yep, Sephardim too!
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Umm I don't think so, the only other ones I can think of are Kurds and nomadic groups of Africa.

    Anyway the main point of this thread was not to show how Jewish law does not necessarily dictate who is Jewish.
    But from a religious point of view it does, which is what the culture is based around. If you want to try and claim your some sort of Jew because you share some of the genes of someone who was actually a Jew then I guess that's your business.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    But from a religious point of view it does, which is what the culture is based around. If you want to try and claim your some sort of Jew because you share some of the genes of someone who was actually a Jew then I guess that's your business.
    Well that's like saying any European culture is just Christianity.

    At the end of the day it depends what you mean by a Jew. As I've said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, not everybody views Halackic law as an objective definition of who is Jewish. That goes for both religious and secular Jews.

    I'm not 'TRYING' to claim Jewish identity anymore than you are 'TRYING' to claim that Halackic law is an objective definition of Jewishness.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Umm I don't think so, the only other ones I can think of are Kurds and nomadic groups of Africa.
    Roma?
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    If you can get into JFS - you're a Jew
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    I have noticed of late that there seems to be a lot of confusion around TSR regarding the definition of ‘Jewish.’ Many people still think that being Jewish is simply a matter of religious observance or religious inheritance from the mother. The truth is that it is much more complex.Firstly, ask yourself, if it was just a matter of religion, then surely all the Holocaust victims would have just converted to Christianity. The Jews are an ethnic group – an ethnicity. Just like Africans, Caucasians, South Asians, Kurds, Aboriginals &c. In fact, there are many different ethnic groups associated with Judaism – the most common of which are the Ashkenazi Jews.

    The Ashkenazi Jews originate from a distinct group of Jews settling in the Roman Empire and originating from Ancient Israel. Ashkenazi Jews are a distinct, homogenous ethnic group who, due show distinct ethnic markers not found in the general population of Europe. The Sephardic Jews are another European Jewish sub-group who settled in Spain, although they are less well known.

    They share these distinct ethnic markers regardless of where they were located in Europe. Like Sephardic and Mizrhazi Jews (less common), they branched off from the ‘original’ Jews of Ancient Israel around 2500 years ago when they settled in the Roman Empire. They originated from the Middle East (Ancient Israel). When I tell people I am half-Jewish (father’s side) they respond with statements such as “you can’t be half a religion” and “you are only Jewish from your mother’s side”. In a religious sense, they are correct: you cannot really adhere to half a religion. Also, by Talmudic law, having an automatic label of Jewish religion is passed on from the mother’s side. However, from the perspective of genes and ethnicity, half of my ancestry consists of previously isolated and largely homogenous Jewish communities originally from the Middle East, while the other half is of the general British population.

    I took an Ancestry.co.uk DNA test, and whaddayaknow, around half of my ancestry was classed as ‘European Jewish’.The term ‘secular Jew’ means that one is ethnically and perhaps culturally Jewish, but does not practice Judaism (practicing Jew). Of course, one can also be defined as Jewish if they convert and adopt the religious and cultural customs associated with the Jewish people.Hopefully this clears things up. Predictably, there may be some Neo Nazi/Fascist/Anti-Semitic responses, but hey ho, this is the internet.

    And if anyone’s interested: I do not particularly support Israel, I am not circumcised, my family do not own any banks or media institutions, I am not a revolutionary Communist, I am not a greedy Capitalist, I do not have a big nose, I am not part of The Conspiracy, and I am British by nationality, cultural values an in part by ethnicity.

    Regards,
    (((jambojim97)))
    You taught me alot there!! However, I also began to be aware of the Black jews in America which claim that the Promised land for the jews wasnt Ancient Israel but is meant to be around Egypt.. And the prophecy in the Old Testament for the jews to go back to their Promised land was due to the jews being shipped across for slavery just like the black africans from Africa to America which occured during Black slavery.. And they therefore claim all the mainstream Israelites are fake. They did quote from the Old testament but obviously there couldve have been misquotations but it really blew my mind!
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Not really, the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe expanded far and wide, but still remained a homogenous ethnic group with the same religious customs and culture.
    Not really, especially as time went on. Different Jewish communities spoke different languages, and adapted differently to the countries they lived in.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Well that's like saying any European culture is just Christianity.

    At the end of the day it depends what you mean by a Jew. As I've said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, not everybody views Halackic law as an objective definition of who is Jewish. That goes for both religious and secular Jews.

    I'm not 'TRYING' to claim Jewish identity anymore than you are 'TRYING' to claim that Halackic law is an objective definition of Jewishness.
    So what again is the point in this thread? Your just putting forward you opinion on what makes a Jew and having a go at people.

    By your logic much of the nordic population could reasonably identify as viking. There is very little external influence on much the gene pool, many of the customs are still observed etc.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Because European Jews are a distinct ethnic group and anybody with Jewish lineage should be recognised as partly Jewish by ethnicity.
    Why exclusively with that ethnicity? Surely, if you believe that, it would be fit to do that with all ethnicities? (then many people will have a large list of ethnicities attached to their name)
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Not really, especially as time went on. Different Jewish communities spoke different languages, and adapted differently to the countries they lived in.
    I am well aware of that, but I was talking about the Ashkenazi Jews of Europe, the most common Jewish ethnic group.
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    Why exclusively with that ethnicity? Surely, if you believe that, it would be fit to do that with all ethnicities? (then many people will have a large list of ethnicities attached to their name)
    Some ethnic groups are more prominent than others, in that they stand out. Especially when they have different genes, cultures and customs from the majority population.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So what again is the point in this thread? Your just putting forward you opinion on what makes a Jew and having a go at people.

    By your logic much of the nordic population could reasonably identify as viking. There is very little external influence on much the gene pool, many of the customs are still observed etc.
    The point of this thread was to show that there is no objective definition of who is Jewish, and that Jewishness can be defined by religion, culture and ethnic background. I don't see how that's unclear.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Roma?
    YES! Roma is an excellent example. You wouldn't tell somebody who has one Romani parent that they are not half-Roma. The same goes for Jews!
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Some ethnic groups are more prominent than others, in that they stand out. Especially when they have different genes, cultures and customs from the majority population.
    What about non-practicing followers? (I assume you're referring to specifically to Judaism)
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    What about non-practicing followers? (I assume you're referring to specifically to Judaism)
    Assuming you're referring to Secular Jews, then yes of course. Secular Jews often celebrate Jewish festivals like Hunnukah and Yom Kippur, just like non-Christians celebrate Christmas.
 
 
 
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