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    Does that mean I can wear a bright pink mankini and balaclava?
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    (Original post by ajay1998)
    All I can see this doing is making muslims feel like their being persecuted and targeted, which will only breed contempt for the white majority in this country. At times like this do we really need to create more divisiveness between peope?
    *a tiny minority of*

    I won't comment on the argument saying that "we shouldn't do anything because they will harm us otherwise".
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    (Original post by MedioCentro97)
    You call it a dig, I say it's a fact. I love Western Culture (although I wouldn't say only wearing a bikini is western culture. Western culture should be to wear whatever you want, which ironically you oppose)
    That is not Western culture, it never has been and never will be.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Absolutely, I know a couple of Muslims who get on very well in Western life and are very agreeable people precisely because they've embraced more liberal values. I think it's fairly clear that the more conservative the person is in practising their religion, the less likely they are to integrate well into society. Collectively, we need to stop with this petty West-bashing culture that is developing (particularly among the young), and say to those who want to enter the country "these are our values, if you don't agree with them then we don't want you to have any presence in our society". The fact that a number of Muslims have successfully integrated is proof that if can happen, but the Islamic ideology itself stands in the way of that for a great many people. I'm proud of the liberty entitled to our citizens and I will oppose any ideology that seeks to restrict that.

    In regards to the burqa ban we must turn to our friend 'pragmatism' and weigh up the pros, cons and other issues in implementing this. I can identify the following positive outcomes of introducing a ban:

    1. Higher levels of security.
    2. Less intimidating for non-Muslim members of the public (e.g. in the street)
    3. Potentially prevents the oppression of women.
    4. Makes a more homogenous society, resulting in less cultural clashes.

    I think point 1 is indisputably beneficial, as is point 3. The only issue with point 3 is that some women may end up being banned from leaving the home, which is of course illegal but would be hard to monitor and enforce their freedom of movement. Point 2 is also beneficial, although I imagine it will garner some complaints about 'Islamophobia' in a very literal sense. I disagree with this, however, as a group of maybe 4-5 women clad head to toe in Islamic garb can be intimidating, particularly for children or people travelling by themselves. There have been incidents where men have hid underneath these costumes, so banning the burqa would also improve security here aside from facial recognition during conversation and by CCTV. As for point 4, I imagine people's response to this will depend on their attitude to multiculturalism. I think a homogenous society is beneficial and can list a number of reasons why that is so if anyone is interested, but others would say this would reduce diversity (which is apparently a good thing for some people). But certainly in terms of governability and civil unrest (lack of), homogenity is good.
    Good points, and I think the homogenity is a big one. I do like the feeling of being somewhere with a mix of different cultures, where people wear all sorts of different clothes and eat different things and have different perspectives. I don't like it when it's less of a mix, and more like seperate islands of cultures living side by side. Muslims frankly are quite easily one of the worst, if not the worst, demographic when it comes to integrating with the rest of our society, and the burqa and niqab certainly plays into creating a sense of distance between them and everyone else. Hmm, interesting points.

    Additionally, the mollycoddling and platitudes from politicians and the media regarding Islam (the "no true Muslim", "religion of peace", "Muhammad was a good person" kinda rubbish) only plays into Muslims' sense that their religion is some kind of sacred cow which cannot be mocked, and that this is actually supported by the establishment (I think George Bush may have actually been the first to use the term "religion of peace"). All that stuff needs to go, and we will eventually need to stop being scared of showing Muhammad on South Park, or whatever else.
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    Also for all those people who think the burqa should be banned for secuirity reasons, is the trampling of civil liberties really worth this higher level of security?

    I mean the safest societies with the highest level of security are police states. Who would honestly want to live in a police state?
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    That is not Western culture, it never has been and never will be.
    I never said it is, I said western culture allows us to wear what we want freely, which is why the Burkini is and will continue to be worn by any women who wants to in the UK and France.
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    (Original post by TheDailyMan)
    As much as the "alt-right" (nothing but empty contrarianism) like to insist, memes don't have a place in proper discussion
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    I think Brits should take pride in the fact that the UK is and has always been a rather relaxed, liberal country when it comes to dress.

    What makes us great is we tend not to tell other people what and what not to wear, individual choice is what we're all about.

    I personally couldn't care less whether you want to dress in a burka or in a full-body banana suit. Just look at the Notting Hill Carnival if you want to see a great celebration of British diversity and culture.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    *a tiny minority of*

    I won't comment on the argument saying that "we shouldn't do anything because they will harm us otherwise".
    I think more than just a tiny minority of muslims would feel targeted if the burqa is banned. I mean come on, a direct ban on one of their religious dresses, how does that not appear to them they're being targeted. Of course if there was a ban on all religious expression (i.e wearing crosses) such as in some parts of France, then they probably wouldn't feel targeted as much since people of all religions would be affected, but that is also a bad idea too.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    As I said, the Muslim population is doubling every 10 years, that is clear.
    As the Muslim population increases, so will the non-muslim population. The UK will never be a Muslims nation, how stupid can you be.
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    (Original post by MedioCentro97)
    I never said it is, I said western culture allows us to wear what we want freely, which is why the Burkini is and will continue to be worn by any women who wants to in the UK and France.
    But that is not Western culture, it is not Western culture to where whatever we want, it is simply not true.

    Also, France will ban the Burkini for good soon*.

    *In the next year or so.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I completely agree, which is why I'm very reserved about the idea of banning the burqa, and why I think a cultural shift (which I believe is happening) is better. The severe mocking and criticism of fundamentalist or just old-fashioned Christianity over the 20th century does seem to have actually worked. These days Life of Brian would not cause so much controversy. Not even close. I don't see why Islam is different. One day, we should be able to mock Mohammad without fear.

    And for the record, I don't think everyone should spend their lives shagging and getting pissed (but they can if they want to), I just think that freedom we have to do so is something to be very happy about, and I think the way we are quite open about sex is also something to be proud of. It's not so much the act itself I'm talking about, but the way sex is so apparent and important in so many important Western works of art, literature, and cinema. Equally, alcohol is too, going back to the Porter in Macbeth and far further. These aren't things to be ashamed of, they're things to be celebrated as parts of our vibrant and storied culture. Just as is homosexuality too.
    Then I would say, go ahead and celebrate these things, I don't think that Muslims as a whole are really setting out to stop you. They simply wish to maintain their right to feel averse to these sorts of things and refrain from them (in this case, putting their bodies on display), and to not join in your celebrations. If this is no problem, then I'd say that not only am I "reserved" about banning the burqa, I don't see why it's even on the cards in the first place.*
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    (Original post by MedioCentro97)
    As the Muslim population increases, so will the non-muslim population. The UK will never be a Muslims nation, how stupid can you be.

    Clearly not as stupid as you, I have said over and over again, the Muslim population as a % is doubling every 10 years, this is not hard to understand.
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    (Original post by ajay1998)
    I think more than just a tiny minority of muslims would feel targeted if the burqa is banned. I mean come on, a direct ban on one of their religious dresses, how does that not appear to them they're being targeted. Of course if there was a ban on all religious expression (i.e wearing crosses) such as in some parts of France, then they probably wouldn't feel targeted as much since people of all religions would be affected, but that is also a bad idea too.
    Many Muslims would also be glad to see this Wahhabi dress being banned. The vocal ones will shout "islamophobia!", but it doesn't mean that all Muslims are behind them.

    You can't compare a cross that is often concealed and a burka, which conceals everything.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Clearly not as stupid as you, I have said over and over again, the Muslim population as a % is doubling every 10 years, this is not hard to understand.
    So if this continued, it'd take atleast 100 years for them to be a majority. And that's if the non muslim population doesn't increase at all. Extremely unlikely. Your nationalistic mind is not only worryingly racist, but lacking intellectually.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    But that is not Western culture, it is not Western culture to where whatever we want, it is simply not true.

    Also, France will ban the Burkini for good soon*.

    *In the next year or so.
    I think you'll find it really is true. Otherwise WC would be just as backwards as what we see in the ME.
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    The burqa is not even compulsory in Islam. However, I do not support the ban. I only support it in cases of security such as airports, banks etc. otherwise, who are we to stop others from practicing their religion?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Many Muslims would also be glad to see this Wahhabi dress being banned. The vocal ones will shout "islamophobia!", but it doesn't mean that all Muslims are behind them.

    You can't compare a cross that is often concealed and a burka, which conceals everything.
    Well who cares if muslims would want to see the wahabi dressed banned (which I'm not sure is even true). The principle still stands, people should be allowed to wear what they want, including the wahabi dress, even if many muslims ''would be glad'. The governement shouldn't dictate what people can and cannot wear, it's authoritarian.

    You can compare them in the sense they're both expressions of religion. I guess a more appropriate comparison is the dress those Catholic nuns wear.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I found this interesting. Not sure where I stand on it. It should obviously be banned in airports and other places where it is absolutely necessary to see people's faces for security reasons, but I worry banning it in all public places could help open the doors to a surveillance culture where people must always have their faces on show. I certainly sympathise with the sentiments behind banning face-covering Islamic veils though, Islam should not be welcomed in this country. But I think I favour liberty. Politicians and the BBC stopping with the fawning platitudes about Islam would be a better option, as would banning faith schools, which would be the best option.
    http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-e...urqa-ban-poll/
    I agree with you.
    I don't like seeing women wear it but at the end of the day I value personal liberty highly. I'd focus on trying to assimilate and educate Muslim women to the point that they don't feel they need to hide away rather than simply banning them from wearing it.

    Prevention is better than cure.

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