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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    You really believe it was a wide spread problem of women being chatty in church? That the men sat there golden and attentive and that this problem was replicated in so many sermons that a ban on speech was needed? You believe that despite the cultural norm at this time of women being generally subordinate to men, that these women would have behaved in such a disruptive manner? You believe that it was proportionate to force them to go to their husbands for answers every time they didn't understand something in the teaching? Why could they not ask after the sermon?

    Does this sound like the Holy Spirit or does it sound more like the typical cultural attitudes toward women that pervaded this part of the world and far beyond at this point in history?

    You never addressed the instruction to veil the head or else cut off the hair.
    *Shrugs*

    I don't know and tbh I don't see why you're concerning yourself with this so much. What I believe is none of your concern. I don't even know why you're on here as an ex-Christian.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin.
    Perhaps the Bible is wrong.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    *Shrugs*

    I don't know and tbh I don't see why you're concerning yourself with this so much. What I believe is none of your concern. I don't even know why you're on here as an ex-Christian.
    The second time in this short thread that this popular cop out of "it doesn't concern you" has been used, despite the fact that if the bible is gods word then it would certainly apply to every one of us.

    My previous response was that I have friends who are gay and Christian and I want to see the better treatment of other human beings who are also gay and Christian. Furthermore, if I can encourage anyone out of the subtle prison that is Christianity by posting a few thoughts then that's great.
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    (Original post by leavingthecity)
    The second time in this short thread that this popular cop out of "it doesn't concern you" has been used, despite the fact that if the bible is gods word then it would certainly apply to every one of us.

    My previous response was that I have friends who are gay and Christian and I want to see the better treatment of other human beings who are also gay and Christian. Furthermore, if I can encourage anyone out of the subtle prison that is Christianity by posting a few thoughts then that's great.
    I'm sorry but you are wasting your time with me, I've already decided 100% that I'm a Christian. Or rather, I should say, God has decided that I am Christian, long before I was even born He ordained for me to come to know Christ personally. I will never be an atheist or an unbeliever. It is impossible
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Well, I don't really understand how you can call yourself Christian and not follow the core religious text from which the central tenants of the faith are from, you know what I mean? If you believe in the values of Christianity but you don't believe that the Bible is the solely divinely inspired holy book and that Christ is the one true Lord and Saviour then you are not a Christian, it's really quite simple
    Would you ever work on a Sunday? Do you pray to any saints? Do you eat pork or shellfish or rabbit? Do you disagree with slavery? Do you like Harry Potter/Anything with magic? Do you wear clothes of more than one material? Do you think if someone has a period and touches someone else then that person is now unclean? or agree with women getting their hands cut off for breaking up a fight? Do you believe people with disabilities don't deserve a place in heaven?

    People don't go by everything in the bible and I don't see why a homosexual priest really makes a difference. I think Religions really have other things to worry about and just focus on one thing.
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    (Original post by beccac94)
    Would you ever work on a Sunday? Do you pray to any saints? Do you eat pork or shellfish or rabbit? Do you disagree with slavery? Do you like Harry Potter/Anything with magic? Do you wear clothes of more than one material? Do you think if someone has a period and touches someone else then that person is now unclean? or agree with women getting their hands cut off for breaking up a fight? Do you believe people with disabilities don't deserve a place in heaven?

    People don't go by everything in the bible and I don't see why a homosexual priest really makes a difference. I think Religions really have other things to worry about and just focus on one thing.
    Old Testament stuff. Not relevant anymore now Jesus has come:

    Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV / 202 helpful votes “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”


    Hebrews 8:13 ESV / 123 helpful votes In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


    Hebrews 9:15 ESV / 110 helpful votes Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

    Hebrews 8:7-8 ESV / 91 helpful votes For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

    Luke 22:20 ESV / 82 helpful votes And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

    1 Corinthians 11:25 ESV / 65 helpful votes In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

    2 Corinthians 3:6 ESV / 64 helpful votes Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Romans 7:6 ESV / 54 helpful votes But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

    Hebrews 8:6 ESV / 49 helpful votes But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

    Romans 8:1-39 ESV / 44 helpful votes There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. ...

    Hebrews 9:11-15 ESV / 41 helpful votes But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

    Mark 14:24 ESV / 39 helpful votes And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many

    .Romans 11:27 ESV / 37 helpful votes “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

    Romans 6:14 ESV / 37 helpful votes For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace

    .Romans 8:1-4 ESV / 33 helpful votes There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    Jeremiah 31:31 ESV / 32 helpful votes “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

    Hebrews 12:24 ESV / 27 helpful votes And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    Hebrews 10:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”

    Colossians 2:16-17 ESV / 23 helpful votes Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

    Hebrews 8:10 ESV / 22 helpful votes For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Romans 4:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,

    Luke 24:44 ESV / 16 helpful votes Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

    John 1:12 ESV / 14 helpful votes But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

    2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV / 11 helpful votes Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

    Matthew 26:28 ESV / 11 helpful votes For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

    Acts 2:38 ESV / 10 helpful votes And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ...
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Old Testament stuff. Not relevant anymore now Jesus has come:

    Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV / 202 helpful votes “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”Hebrews 8:13 ESV / 123 helpful votes In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.Hebrews 9:15 ESV / 110 helpful votes Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.Hebrews 8:7-8 ESV / 91 helpful votes For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,Luke 22:20 ESV / 82 helpful votes And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.1 Corinthians 11:25 ESV / 65 helpful votes In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”2 Corinthians 3:6 ESV / 64 helpful votes Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.Romans 7:6 ESV / 54 helpful votes But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.Hebrews 8:6 ESV / 49 helpful votes But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.Romans 8:1-39 ESV / 44 helpful votes There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. ...Hebrews 9:11-15 ESV / 41 helpful votes But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.Mark 14:24 ESV / 39 helpful votes And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.Romans 11:27 ESV / 37 helpful votes “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”Romans 6:14 ESV / 37 helpful votes For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.Romans 8:1-4 ESV / 33 helpful votes There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.Jeremiah 31:31 ESV / 32 helpful votes “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,Hebrews 12:24 ESV / 27 helpful votes And to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.Hebrews 10:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”Colossians 2:16-17 ESV / 23 helpful votes Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.Hebrews 8:10 ESV / 22 helpful votes For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.Romans 4:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,Luke 24:44 ESV / 16 helpful votes Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”John 1:12 ESV / 14 helpful votes But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV / 11 helpful votes Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.Matthew 26:28 ESV / 11 helpful votes For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.Acts 2:38 ESV / 10 helpful votes And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ...
    Okay I'm not reading that big thing of text cause its making my eyes go funny.( thanks for seperating it out I'll give it a read now) But how can you say that if its in the old testament it isn't relevant? You said something earlier about the old and new testament said things on it so was it relevant then?

    But if we're just going by the new testament...have you ever been sick and go to the doctors? ( James 5:14 says just pray the illness away) do you believe women should speak in churches? (1st Corinthians 14:34 says women aren't permitted to speak in church) Slavery mentioned in Philemon 1:12 as a slave is returned to their owner (saying the bible agrees with slavery), also forgtabout Timothy which agrees with slavery. so you agree with self mutilation? (Matthew 5:29 and Matthew 5:30).

    This list could go on, don't plan for th future, don't save your money, don't dress up/wear makeup, hate your family etc etc

    Also you say its not relevantt but why every time I've been in church the priest/vicar has read passages from the old testament?

    Everything is taken with a pinch of salt, everyones guilty of cherry picking.
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    The way he was forced to reveal it was horrible, with the newspaper basically going 'you tell or i tell.'

    Best regards
    Francis.
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    (Original post by beccac94)
    Okay I'm not reading that big thing of text cause its making my eyes go funny.( thanks for seperating it out I'll give it a read now) But how can you say that if its in the old testament it isn't relevant? You said something earlier about the old and new testament said things on it so was it relevant then?

    But if we're just going by the new testament...have you ever been sick and go to the doctors? ( James 5:14 says just pray the illness away) do you believe women should speak in churches? (1st Corinthians 14:34 says women aren't permitted to speak in church) Slavery mentioned in Philemon 1:12 as a slave is returned to their owner (saying the bible agrees with slavery), so you agree with self mutilation? (Matthew 5:29 and Matthew 5:30).

    This list could go on, don't plan for th future, don't save your money, don't dress up/wear makeup, hate your family etc etc

    Everything is taken with a pinch of salt, everyones guilty of cherry picking.
    If you read the (now) seperated wall of text you would find the answer to your question

    Anyway, I am bored of explaining my faith to other people now. Have a good day :hat2:

    I might come back later and answer; I might not.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    I'm sorry but you are wasting your time with me, I've already decided 100% that I'm a Christian. Or rather, I should say, God has decided that I am Christian, long before I was even born He ordained for me to come to know Christ personally. I will never be an atheist or an unbeliever. It is impossible
    Where have I heard that before, oh yeah...me!
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If it was any other person in any other position of authority I wouldn't mind; but as this person is a Bishop in the Church of England I expect him to be a spiritual leader and I would look up to him to help me follow Christ faithfully. If he is in a homosexual relationship it's pretty obvious that he is sinning before God and thus is misleading and abusing his position of spiritual authority. The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin. If he doesn't believe this he should not be a bishop and his authority should be taken from him, simple as
    The Bible also recommends stoning to death for eating the wrong foods or for sleeping with your neighbour's slaves. Do you support those policies?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Perhaps the Bible is wrong.
    It's funny, because AngryRedhead cites the Old Testament as his source of proof that God doesn't dig homosexuality, but then dumps the OT in another post, claiming it to be replaced by Jesus, etc.

    Same old same old - it's all in the interpretations and each person sees and hears that which confirms their pre-existing prejudices.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's funny, because AngryRedhead cites the Old Testament as his source of proof that God doesn't dig homosexuality, but then dumps the OT in another post, claiming it to be replaced by Jesus, etc.

    Same old same old - it's all in the interpretations and each person sees and hears that which confirms their pre-existing prejudices.
    Where have I quoted the OT as proof against homosexual acts?
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Where have I quoted the OT as proof against homosexual acts?
    I didn't say you'd quoted it, did I? In your second post on the front page of this thread, you said
    "
    .... The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin. If he doesn't believe this he should not be a bishop and his authority should be taken from him, simple as... "

    Please stop citing the Old Testament as your evidence if you don't believe it is evidence of God's intent. If you do believe it is, please stop claiming elsewhere that only the New Testament is a valid source of God's will.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I didn't say you'd quoted it, did I? In your second post on the front page of this thread, you said
    "
    .... The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin. If he doesn't believe this he should not be a bishop and his authority should be taken from him, simple as... "

    Please stop citing the Old Testament as your evidence if you don't believe it is evidence of God's intent. If you do believe it is, please stop claiming elsewhere that only the New Testament is a valid source of God's will.
    Both are relevant but the OT must be taken in it's appropriate context as described by the NT. Both halves of the Bible are still God's word but the OT law is divided into three distinct factions: ceremonial, moral and legal. The legal part and the ceremonial part of the law no longer applies but the moral part of the law still does including God's opinion on homosexual acts
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Both are relevant but the OT must be taken in it's appropriate context as described by the NT. Both halves of the Bible are still God's word but the OT law is divided into three distinct factions: ceremonial, moral and legal. The legal part and the ceremonial part of the law no longer applies but the moral part of the law still does including God's opinion on homosexual acts
    Says who? Not God, anyway, that's for sure. :lol:
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    (Original post by Francis Urquhart)
    The way he was forced to reveal it was horrible, with the newspaper basically going 'you tell or i tell.'

    Best regards
    Francis.
    The Bishop does not deserve to take a bashing for this
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    (Original post by viffer)
    The Bishop does not deserve to take a bashing for this
    Absolutely, i feel terrible for the man, the newspaper basically forced him to reveal it. Which is outrageous.

    Best regards
    Francis.
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    (Original post by Francis Urquhart)
    Absolutely, i feel terrible for the man, the newspaper basically forced him to reveal it. Which is outrageous.

    Best regards
    Francis.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    I agree. Newspapers are *******s.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If it was any other person in any other position of authority I wouldn't mind; but as this person is a Bishop in the Church of England I expect him to be a spiritual leader and I would look up to him to help me follow Christ faithfully. If he is in a homosexual relationship it's pretty obvious that he is sinning before God and thus is misleading and abusing his position of spiritual authority. The Bible makes it abundantly clear in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual acts are sin. If he doesn't believe this he should not be a bishop and his authority should be taken from him, simple as
    Where does the bible outlaw homosexual relationships? It's only gay sex iirc

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