Warnings over Brexit from the big powers

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    (Original post by Fenice)
    The games are competitions between nations in winning medals. The total medals won by each nation are scored in a medal table.

    We came 3rd in the medal table last time and 2nd in the medal table this time.

    That we did better in these games is a simple matter of fact.
    We had more gold medals last time. We won more events last time. Thus it was a better games.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You do realise the medal table is based upon gold medals, not silvers and bronzes?
    You're intriguing.

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    I'm afraid thats not how it works sir.. OUR GREATEST OLYMPICS EVER by the only measure that counts, quantity of medals

    RULE BRITANNIA. #ThankyouBraveNobleBrexiteers
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    We had more gold medals last time. We won more events last time. Thus it was a better games.

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    I refer you to my previous post.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    I refer you to my previous post.
    You were wrong in that post. In this games China got more medals overall than us but less goods. We finisher ahead of them. Should we not have?

    The only thing that matters is gold medals. I like winning rather than coming third.

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I'm afraid thats not how it works sir.. OUR GREATEST OLYMPICS EVER by the only measure that counts, quantity of medals

    RULE BRITANNIA. #ThankyouBraveNobleBrexiteers
    Except it is how it works or else China would have finished above us this year as they had more medals but less golds.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You do realise the medal table is based upon gold medals, not silvers and bronzes?
    You're intriguing.

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    Basically, yes they are:

    This is the table of the medal count of the 2016 Summer Olympics, based on the medal count of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). These rankings sort by the number of gold medals, earned by a National Olympic Committee (NOC). The number of silver medals is taken into consideration next and then the number of bronze medals. If, after the above, countries are still tied, equal ranking is given and they are listed alphabetically by IOC Country Code. Although this information is provided by the IOC, the IOC itself does not recognize or endorse any ranking system.[20][21]
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Except it is how it works or else China would have finished above us this year as they had more medals but less golds.

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    Sir i don't make the rules

    http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/rio-olympics-news

    CANT BARRAGE THE FARRAGE
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    We cannot allow Brexit to happen. Parliament must step in on behalf of the tolerant, progressive Remainers and in the best interests of the Breixters who were lied to.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    People are a product of society, which is run by leaders responsible for shaping the views of their nation - raising education levels for engagement in political discussion and well-reasoned voting; providing agreeable reasons for foreign and public policy; listening to the hoi polloi with an ear to the ground - and encouraging support for their party and campaigning effectively in a referendum. Both parties failed miserably in this regard, as they have essentially become the same party with a different face and identical deaf ears (hence the temporary rise of UKIP and Green), something I hate to admit that Peter Hitchens was right all along about (perhaps the only right thing he's said to date, mind you).

    You'd be hard pressed to find any substantial difference between these two skeletons of parties. Labour were truly embarrassed in this referendum; it's nothing short of laughable that Corbyn - who carried out the most pathetic and indifferent Remain non-campaign we could possibly imagine - is back to business as usual. At least Cameron was gracious enough to admit failure and in effect admit to a disconnect with his people and party. I agree the media is important in this but it is not so much the root problem as the catalyst. Despite voting remain, part of me is glad this occurred. It is a huge wake-up call to UK politics. Just dwell on this thought for a moment: 52% (17m) of the voting population disagree with or were not convinced by the TWO leading - and allegedly opposing - parties. It's difficult to exaggerate how significant of a political - not public - failure that is. It's quite rare that even the Official Opposition cannot play the 'rebound' for those dissatisfied with the leaders of the country.



    Don't you think this is a slightly cyclical argument? You're blaming the people, raised in a society, for having the wrong opinion which was shaped by the actions of those leading that society (and exacerbated by the media). We are a product of our environment's ingredients. Trump's supporters are a logical consequence to years of pseudo-liberal, ultra-PC censorship; decades of political leaders refusing to admit the danger of Islamism (despite the New Atheist movement predicting it some two decades ago) out of fear of being attacked by the regressive left, and the nonsense belief that any diversity is good diversity so long as we have the moral highground. The result of this is plain for all to see: immigration that cannot sensibly be maintained, religious extremism from within, multi-cultural and theistic tension, estrangement of people and party, and now an explosion of voters at their wits' end, many of whom find solace in someone who finally offers a simple solution to all their woes: build walls and kick 'em out (which I disagree with but have sympathy for).



    I agree that we of course have some responsibility, but I do find it very difficult to blame people who are consistently not listened to, who are affected most by immigration, who are often choosing between the lesser of two political evils in a so-called democracy, who come from a high-crime, high-immigrant area, who are unable to cope with such rapid change in culture, who are perhaps more easily moulded by the press and public figures, etc. It is the responsibility of the government to empathise and negotiate with these people. What is ironic now is how the same people who celebrate the Orwellian uprising of the proletariat are the same people relegating the UK working-class and unemployed as nothing more than stupid for taking us out the EU. Fiction is suddenly not so romantic when it becomes reality.
    To put it succinctly: I agree with everything you just said. We are, mostly, in resonance. What I am really trying to say with the all-too-simple line of "Blame the public", is that people underestimate their own power in society, people are increasingly feeling disenchanted and apathetic with politics, while not realising the power they have in a representational democracy. An expectation of the government has formed too, which has made people societally lazy.

    I must quickly agree with you in saying that the notion of voting for the lesser of two evils which leads to a lot of apathy is a serious issue in itself, this is a result of Duverger's Law, which is itself a result of the First Past the Post system, this really ought to be changed to Alternative Voting to making it more representational, but thanks to the swayed May 5, 2011 referendum, we're stuck for now.

    In my mind, a healthy society is one where as many people are actively involved in politics as possible. The simple exercise of writing a letter to your local MP about an issue seems all too peculiar to most people, when in actuality excerises like this is what makes societies great. Everyone has this power. I admit I'm being too harsh using the word "blame", when really it's a lack of understanding of the power that each and every one of us has. I use the word "blame" because it installs responsibility into people, so far it's the only real way I've found of waking people up to the power they have in a single sentence.
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    (Original post by Iridocyclitis)
    We cannot allow Brexit to happen. Parliament must step in on behalf of the tolerant, progressive Remainers and in the best interests of the Breixters who were lied to.
    Yes, let the common man rise up against their oppressors and protect their rights!



    Oh wait, we already did that. It's called Brexit.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    Basically, yes they are:

    This is the table of the medal count of the 2016 Summer Olympics, based on the medal count of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). These rankings sort by the number of gold medals, earned by a National Olympic Committee (NOC). The number of silver medals is taken into consideration next and then the number of bronze medals. If, after the above, countries are still tied, equal ranking is given and they are listed alphabetically by IOC Country Code. Although this information is provided by the IOC, the IOC itself does not recognize or endorse any ranking system.[20][21]
    It's not about medal count overall, it's about gold medals hence we finished above China who had more medals but less golds. Its really not a difficult concept.


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    (Original post by Iridocyclitis)
    We cannot allow Brexit to happen. Parliament must step in on behalf of the tolerant, progressive Remainers and in the best interests of the Breixters who were lied to.
    hahahaha, good joke.
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    I voted "Out". Ask me in 5 years & then in 10 years time if I still think it was wise to do so. It was a risk but, looking at the state of the EU at the moment, I personally see the bigger risk in the long term would have been remaining inside the union.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    cur: the state of intending to leave an institution esp the European Union at an indeterminate time in the future

    syn: ad Kalendas Graecas, the twelfth of never; when hell freezes over; when the United Kingdom satisfies the five economic tests

    obs: leaving the European Union
    At what odds would you bet that the UK will remain in the EU?

    That the BBC has moved from (as much as could be expected) neutral reporting during the referendum to open Remain canvassing after it suggests to me that the establishment is terrified, and feels that it is losing for real this time.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    At what odds would you bet that the UK will remain in the EU?

    That the BBC has moved from (as much as could be expected) neutral reporting during the referendum to open Remain canvassing after it suggests to me that the establishment is terrified, and feels that it is losing for real this time.
    Theresa May seems to be playing a double game, comforting the Leavers in her party with all that 'Brexit means Brexit' talk, whilst clearly moving towards staying in the Single Market - hence her thwarting of Bojo's points-based proposals.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...s-point-based/

    It would appear that the establishment are firmly in charge, which actually, if true, is something of a relief this time, as we need some level heads in the midst of chaos.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    At what odds would you bet that the UK will remain in the EU?

    That the BBC has moved from (as much as could be expected) neutral reporting during the referendum to open Remain canvassing after it suggests to me that the establishment is terrified, and feels that it is losing for real this time.
    The probabilities right now are round about two thirds Leave and a third Remain i think. There's still the possibility that the government will get what most of them see as a crap deal and there's a higher probability that post negotiations, parliament will screw us by amending in a second referendum should May not go for an election in 2019... But, right now momentum is with Leave and there are still potential swings to the upside in terms of negotiations and parliament's willingness to Abstain rather than get in the way.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Apart from London 2012?

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    Best Olympics in 4 years! If that's not a resounding success then I don't know what is......
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The probabilities right now are round about two thirds Leave and a third Remain i think. There's still the possibility that the government will get what most of them see as a crap deal and there's a higher probability that post negotiations, parliament will screw us by amending in a second referendum should May not go for an election in 2019... But, right now momentum is with Leave and there are still potential swings to the upside in terms of negotiations and parliament's willingness to Abstain rather than get in the way.
    The mechanics just don't work. The government won't get a referendum result opposing invoking Article 50, and once they invoke Article 50 remaining in the EU on the old terms is subject to a veto of every memberstate in the EU. We are not going to vote back in on worse terms than we had on 22nd June 2016. So I see invoking Article 50 as irreversible regardless of the outcome of the negotiations.

    A real danger would be "EU through the backdoor" as Switzerland and Norway have. Both of these countries are in the situation they are in because pro-EU elites have tried to do as much as they possible could to join without violating the strict letter of referenda against joining. But May has explicitly said she is on guard against that possibility.

    To be honest the BBC's entire narrative on this issue feels like spin. Their idea - that May is trying to get back in by the back door - simply contradicts both her statements and her actions. I am sure there is a lot of confusion in the government right now as this is a complex undertaking that has not been well prepared for, but I see no real indication from this government that it intends to overturn the result by stealth.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    At what odds would you bet that the UK will remain in the EU?

    That the BBC has moved from (as much as could be expected) neutral reporting during the referendum to open Remain canvassing after it suggests to me that the establishment is terrified, and feels that it is losing for real this time.
    I wouldn't bet at any odds unless the bookie defined what Brexit meant.

    I am sure that we will end up, eventually, with something that bears the name Brexit.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Theresa May seems to be playing a double game, comforting the Leavers in her party with all that 'Brexit means Brexit' talk, whilst clearly moving towards staying in the Single Market - hence her thwarting of Bojo's points-based proposals.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...s-point-based/

    It would appear that the establishment are firmly in charge, which actually, if true, is something of a relief this time, as we need some level heads in the midst of chaos.
    Clearly the Treasury and the Foreign Office want us to stay in the Single Market.

    What I think you are missing, however, is that Theresa May cannot manage the Tory Party and stay as Prime Minister without stopping the free movement of labour. I think the FO and Treasury are in denial about that also.

    Which means only one thing (since the EU will never concede membership of the Single Market without free movement) a hard Brexit. No membership of the single market.

    The Establishment are in la la land. They are trying to negotiate the non negotiable.

    We will leave the Single Market at the end of all this. Nothing else is on offer for us.
 
 
 
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