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If God exists, then who created HIM? HE DOESN'T EXIST! Watch

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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The problem with this argument is that it's a total non-sequitur. It not only assumes that God exists with no evidence whatsoever, but also assumes that only a god could be powerful enough: two baseless premises.

    The first cause (if there even is one) need not be sentient, intelligent or magical. It could be an unthinking law of nature/phenomenon.
    That's a good point tbh x
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Evolution is random mutations providing an advantage over other organisms over time.If god guided evolution then how can the mutations be random?
    How do you know if they were guide by God or not? Also, when you toss a coin you could say the probability of it landing on heads is 50% but really the probability can be swayed the angle of your throw or the surface it lands on. So maybe God didn't directly cause the mutation, but just changed the conditions, the environment, so the likelihood of that particular mutation occurring increases, effectively guiding evolution.
    You could be like "well why doesn't God just directly affect mutations, or why doesn't he just create animals why would he use evolution" but anyone could be like "why doesn't God make my homework do itself and show that he's real"

    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So, if your soul is energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, are you saying your soul has always existed and thus attributing to yourself eternal existence?
    wait hold up why is my soul energy :/
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    (Original post by z33)
    How do you know if they were guide by God or not? Also, when you toss a coin you could say the probability of it landing on heads is 50% but really the probability can be swayed the angle of your throw or the surface it lands on. So maybe God didn't directly cause the mutation, but just changed the conditions, the environment, so the likelihood of that particular mutation occurring increases, effectively guiding evolution.
    You could be like "well why doesn't God just directly affect mutations, or why doesn't he just create animals why would he use evolution" but anyone could be like "why doesn't God make my homework do itself and show that he's real"



    wait hold up why is my soul energy :/
    That's what religious people usually say the soul is and they use that point about energy to "prove" that the soul must survive after death.
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    (Original post by IrrationalRoot)
    What a stupidly arrogant thing to say: "That simple paradox is enough to disprove most religious ideas about god(s). Sorry religious people, you're going to need to rethink things a bit."
    This paragraph alone massively reduces the credibility of anything you say. It just tells everyone that half your argument is based on hyper-self-righteousness.

    Anyway.
    "But if they do manage to create the boulder then they're not powerful enough to lift it, so they're not omnipotent."
    Is that how you think divine omnipotence would work? It's not something that's supposed to be confined by our ideas of logic. We don't even know exactly what is meant by omnipotence in that context; it's certainly not the scientific, straightforward idea that you think it is.
    That's an incredibly superficial argument that you think refutes every idea of religion.

    I'm not arguing with your point as much as I am arguing with how arrogantly conclusively you presented it.
    That's not what I'm getting at. The literal interpretations of omnipotence all fail under that paradox. You can only avoid it by moving the goal posts by redefining omnipotence - a logical fallacy.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So, if your soul is energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, are you saying your soul has always existed and thus attributing to yourself eternal existence?
    I see what you are saying with this. But in this sense, using this concept and let's say if God is energy and energy couldn't be created or destroyed...bearing this thought in mind, in religions such as Christianity, it says in the bible 'god breathed his spirit into man'. Man as in, humans and humanity. Meaning, we all are supposedly a part of him and he did make 'man in his image'. So it is possible that in a sense, apart of God and since he 'always existed' maybe our souls did always exist since he is said to be 'the beginning and end' so in the sense that we are extensions of his spirit that is said to always exist. How he is the source and we are extensions of his 'energy'. I'm not God so I don't know, just pointing out some concepts.
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    Great points though guys, super interesting to read.
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    God created universe. No one created him.
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    Energy is the first thing that created everything - the first ever substance. That energy core is God. Nobody created it, because energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can be interchanged. :3
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    (Original post by Pinkberry_y)
    He's got the whole world, in his hands, he's got the whole world in his hands
    I think you mean she's got the whole world in her hands.
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    (Original post by Trichakra)
    God created universe. No one created him.
    His mum?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    His mum?
    Then who is his mom?
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    (Original post by Trichakra)
    Then who is his mom?
    Mummy God?

    Conversations like this, that's how religions got started. :teehee:
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    (Original post by hateme)
    Atheist here
    What started the big bang, what was there to create the big bang?
    I'm going to answer this now, since I don't think anyone else has yet on this thread;
    One of the most current theories (and the one I quite like actually, i find it quite elegant once you get your head 'round it) is that this universe is not alone. It is in fact one of an infinite number of universes, born out of an infinite plane of energy. These births are caused by dips, or 'valleys' within the plane, where the energy is so great that matter is formed, and we know this as the Big Bang.

    You may then just say, well, then, where did this energy plane come from? Isn't this just moving back the date to the question of how was reality created??
    As far as I understand, the intrinsic nature of quantum mechanics states that matter can be created out of nothing, as long as it instantly annihilates itself in a matter/anti-matter collision. However, due to the (and this is where, if I remember, things get quite odd) 'repulsive gravity' that exists on this plane of energy, the particles are ripped apart, and so the plane is created.

    I quite like this theory, as it also manages to explain some of the quirks of the Big Bang, such as inflation.

    This may not be completely accurate, it just what I remember from an episode of Horizons that dealt with the subject, and a from a chapter of 'What a wonderful world' by Marcus Chown.

    Remember, I am a chemist, not a physicist, so feel free to question anything on this post, as I may well have not remembered it properly...
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think you mean she's got the whole world in her hands.
    Soz if this is triggering
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    (Original post by CatusStarbright)
    Because the minute people stop respecting difference is when the persecution starts.
    Slippery slope fallacy.
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    (Original post by BrainJuice)
    No one. That can easily be proven logically from the fact that if there wasn't a First Cause there would be an INFINITE REGRESS and nothing at all would come to existence. Just imagine the example of a Sniper, he's waiting to shoot his target but first he must ask someone above him in rank for permission, and when he asks they say the same thing - they need to ask someone else, if this continuous forever the Sniper will never get to shoot. But as you can see, our world is here, it began to exist, the chain ended somewhere.

    The reason why you think that this is a good question is because everything around you has been created by God, and so you assume that He must have also began to exist because everything else has.
    I'm sorry, but surely the Big Bang would count as the First Cause of the universe, which is in turn, like I describe in my last post, caused by an infinite energy plane.... leading all the way back to a single, random, quantum event that started this whole shebang in the first place. Therefore, surely this acts the First Cause of the universe, along with all of reality?
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    (Original post by abc_123_)
    I'm not religious, but according to Thomas Aquinas's Cosmological Argument everything has a cause (e.g. I was late to school. I was late to school because my car broke down. My car broke down because it's crap etc in a chain). There has to be a first cause because an infinite chain of causes and effects is impossible. Therefore, the Earth must have a first cause. Only God is powerful enough to be the first cause. Therefore God must exist.

    Not sure how God exists ... maybe he was created when dust and stuff came together or formed himself?

    Personally I am an atheist so I don't believe in God :/ x
    Spoiler:
    Show
    The way planets are formed has already been known for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQexV341t-E
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    (Original post by Shipreck)
    Slippery slope fallacy.
    Not necessarily. I admit to making a slight generalisation, but there are many incidents in history where intolerance has escalated to persecution. For example, when Christianity was just a fledgling, the Jews persecuted them as they could not accept their beliefs.
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    There's design in evolution and so design in the universe suggests a creator, the creator being god. Look at the watch Analogy, if u stubble across a watch u assume there's a creator for such design but why don't we think the same when we see a rock ? Design in the universe example is that all mammals have a certain number of teats to match the number of offspring at one time
    - teleological argument

    The universe is a long chain of cause and effects, this goes back to the beginning of time and time began with the creation of the universe. As the universe had a beginning it will have an end ( contingent ) a contingent universe needs a necessary being this being god. God must be distinct from the universe to create it ( e.g. U can't make a box while being in the box )
    - cosmological argument aquinas



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    How convenient is it that whenever science proves something, Christians suddenly remember that God already said he caused it to happen *cough cough* evolution.
 
 
 
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