If the burqa is a form of oppression, then so are bikinis?

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    (Original post by scblx)
    Well, you can't really compare the niqab/burqa with a bikini anyway - nobody wears a bikini on a day to day basis. And people wear the bikini mainly because they like it, while people wear burqa because of religious reasons, even if they weren't pressured into it, they are doing it out of reasons that are not completely autonomous (religion). This is why one can argue that it's oppression. Surely, if there were (religious?) laws that would require to wear a bikini, this would be oppressive as well, but those don't exist.
    However, I don't support a burqa ban.
    I don't think people generally wear a Burqa for religious reasons; most Muslims are in agreement that it is not a religious requirement.

    In the same way that a lot of people wear revealing clothes in order to draw sexual attention to themselves a lot of people cover up because they (want to make it clear that) they don't want that kind of attention. This goes for both religious people and non-religious people.

    Women from Islamic cultures will probably feel the need to cover more of themselves in order to achieve the above, because they're used to seeing all the other women covering up so much of themselves as a "baseline" level of clothing anyway.
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    (Original post by samantham999)
    I agree! Burqa was introduced because god said he wanted women to look this way. There is a hijab for men.
    Please quote the Quran on that.

    Maybe that there is a "hijab for men", but certainly not a burqa for men.
    (Original post by samantham999)
    Lets make one thing clear.
    MUSLIM WOMEN DO NOT WEAR THE BURQA FOR MEN. THEY WEAR IT FOR GOD.
    Women don't have to wear the burqa when there is no man (or only mahram) around, so it is obvious that they wear it because of men.
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    Lol, I think you're missing the point I made. Read page 1 of this thread. I don't think women are oppressed to wear a skirt, the reason for these types of thread are is because women have to cover their hair and maintain modesty, whereas the majority men don't.

    Also if you think women are oppressed and have to wear a bikini/skirt, then make a thread with a poll for women to answer. Men usually wear shorts and no t-shirts at beaches, are they oppressed?
    No it was you who missed the point. I didn't say women are forced to wear skirts. It was hypothetical.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    No it was you who missed the point. I didn't say women are forced to wear skirts. It was hypothetical.
    Ah well, enjoy reading page one of this thread
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    Yes. In my opinion, wearing any sort of clothes in public is a clear form of oppression.
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    So the problem with the burka and burkini are that they are an enforcement of an archaic system of belief on women. Usually, in public and on the beach, Muslim women don't tend to wear much else other than those and variants of them such as the Niqab. A bikini is optional and can be worn in place of other swimwear and other items of swimwear can be worn at any time, if at all. There's total flexibility and freedom there, unlike with the burka.

    I should also add that the bikini is swimwear, if you meant the bra could be a form of oppression, then that's also a "no". A bra can be worn freely if it needs to be worn at all, but this does not exist with the burka.
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    (Original post by Ishax)
    Ah well, enjoy reading page one of this thread
    Thanks.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Ignoring the small percentage of women who are forced to wear the burqa (it's illegal to force someone to wear it in the UK) surely the argument that the burqa is a form of oppressing women can also be applied to the bikini? One is extremely covering, one is extremely revealing. Yet people seem to think that the bikini is somehow more acceptable than the hijab or the burqa or the niqab.

    What do you guys think?
    How much a piece of clothing covers the body is irrelevant to how "oppressive" it is
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Women don't have to wear the burqa when there is no man (or only mahram) around, so it is obvious that they wear it because of men.
    She said wearing if for God. Muslim women wear the Burqa for God because God wants to protect their modesty from men; not 'women wear the Burqa because of men' - that implies that it is men who are the ones making up the rules, whereas fundamentally Islamic legislation comes from what God has revealed and taught through the Prophet (SAW). The only way in which men legislate is through ijtihad based upon what I just mentioned, not through their whims.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Please quote the Quran on that.

    Maybe that there is a "hijab for men", but certainly not a burqa for men.

    Women don't have to wear the burqa when there is no man (or only mahram) around, so it is obvious that they wear it because of men.
    I am actually talking about the headscarf when I say burqa because thats what a lot of people think its called
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    I go to a beach in the uk - I don't wear a bikini because the climate isn't hot enough
    I go to a beach abroad - I wear a bikini because it's hot. It has nothing to do with sex or being opressed so nice try OP
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Nope. Anyways, I am not one to care for people's subjective objections and disagreements.
    Thereby rendering all debate pointless.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    She said wearing if for God. Muslim women wear the Burqa for God because God wants to protect their modesty from men; not 'women wear the Burqa because of men' - that implies that it is men who are the ones making up the rules, whereas fundamentally Islamic legislation comes from what God has revealed and taught through the Prophet (SAW). The only way in which men legislate is through ijtihad based upon what I just mentioned, not through their whims.
    This is all very well, but not particularly convincing to non-Muslims, who are not interested in what the Qur'an does or does not say, but rather what Islamic ethics, as practiced, produces in terms of social realities.

    And that social reality does not look great for women from a contemporary Western perspective.
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    I can't remember seeing a woman being stoned because she'd chosen not to wear a bikini.
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    (Original post by bj_945)
    Thereby rendering all debate pointless.
    Precisely
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Precisely
    But even if you are rejecting secular debate, there is no way that humans could come to an understanding of religious doctrine without debate. No two Muslims hold the same conception of Islam, and these conceptions themselves are the products of a long history of theological debate in the Islamic world.

    All that religion is is a collection of subjective human opinions centered around a set of scriptural sources. Perhaps there is an absolute truth somewhere, but humans have not found it yet, or at least certainly not agreed upon a common interpretation.

    Even many Islamic theologians and thinkers would agree on the centrality of debate in Islam
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    For someone who calls himself "LadBants" you're such a fanny.
    My surname is Lad.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    My surname is Lad.
    ...and the bants?
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    The bikini is beachwear that is designed to provide comfortable clothing for swimming and getting a tan, much in the same way as speedos for men. The only sexist thing about bikinis is that half of them is intended to cover the breasts, when women's nipples should not be considered any more obscene than men's nipples. It would be even less sexist if women only wore the underwear part.

    The burqa was specifically designed to help keep women as chattel, serves no practical use, does not aid comfort, and so is not at all comparable.

    Moreover, the very idea that women wanting to appear sexy is sexist is extraordinarily sexist in itself. A woman's sexuality does not simply exist for men, it exists for herself too, and if a woman is expressing her sexuality it's pretty sexist to assume that she must only be doing it for male pleasure. She may also be doing it for her own pleasure. She may even gain pleasure from the thought that men are looking at her.


    It's shocking that women have been wearing bikinis since the 40s, and the sexual revolution happened fifty years ago, and you people still don't have a clue.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    The bikini is beachwear that is designed to provide comfortable clothing for swimming and getting a tan, much in the same way as speedos for men. The only sexist thing about bikinis is that half of them is intended to cover the breasts, when women's nipples should not be considered any more obscene than men's nipples. It would be even less sexist if women only wore the underwear part.

    The burqa was specifically designed to help keep women as chattel, serves no practical use, does not aid comfort, and so is not at all comparable.

    Moreover, the very idea that women wanting to appear sexy is sexist is extraordinarily sexist in itself. A woman's sexuality does not simply exist for men, it exists for herself too, and if a woman is expressing her sexuality it's pretty sexist to assume that she must only be doing it for male pleasure. She may also be doing it for her own pleasure. She may even gain pleasure from the thought that men are looking at her.


    It's shocking that women have been wearing bikinis since the 40s, and the sexual revolution happened fifty years ago, and you people still don't have a clue.
    1) If the bikini is not oppressive because it's just a way for a woman to express her sexuality, then surely the burqa is not oppressive either because it's a way for the woman to not express her sexuality and be modest out of her own will?
    2) You say the burqa does not serve a practical purpose, surely the bikini doesn't either? A one piece swimsuit is actually more comfortable and more practical, which is why it's used by Olympic swimmers. As for getting a tan, that has serious health problems associated with it.
    The burqa can be practical since it provides a way for the woman to not be seen by men and not be sexualised. It provides modesty.
 
 
 
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