America vs uK top Medical schools?

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    (Original post by VNN)
    Yes but what will be the best for a student who lives in the uk that wants to become a surgeon in america,that is why i am confused...
    Should i to med school in america or uk...Etc...
    Unless your Dad really has 100s of thousands of pounds to spare (and if he works for the NHS I doubt that will be the case) then do medicine in the UK. Sit the USMLE part 1 and 2 during med school and kick ass in them. Make some American Doctor friends and arrange shadowing with them.

    But realistically, give your self some breathing space. You're 16/17? It is all very good to have ambitions but you don't need to have it all mapped out yet. Focus on getting good grades and keeping up your extra curricular.

    Have you even done any work experience? Before setting surgery in America up on a pedestal, have you even looked in to what its like over there? They may have a shorter training programme, in years, but thats because you do a lot more hours each week. No EWTD over there (though not that we will have one here for much longer).

    I think its also a habit of the young to feel you have to go to the very 'best' schools in order to be successful. This is ********, especially in medicine. If you want to apply to medicine you're going to have to learn to be a bit more realistic. Places like Harvard have ridiculous competition rates, for home students let alone internationals. Yes, it might be possible for a UK student to get in, but is it likely? No. Our schooling system just isn't set up to deliver the kind of things that places like Harvard ask for.

    Another thing. Do you even know what these universities are like? Except that they're 'prestigious'. You're setting yourself up for a very long, hard, and extremely expensive path.

    tl;dr Calm down a bit. get the idea of prestige out of your head. Work out if you actually want to deal with the reality of medicine
    America is ****ing expensive and they care far too much about their own egos.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    oh i see...

    I expect the following from a 'Top' medical school:

    1)Better medical tuition
    2)More prestige/respect
    3)The previous point will make it easier to get a job as a surgeon/doctor and will be of use sometime in my career...
    4)I will be more proud of myself...
    1) No, that's not how it works.

    2) Literally not a thing amongst medics, your colleagues will think you a preening **** if you tried to demand more respect based on the medical school you attended.

    3) No - this isn't investment banking.

    4) Only because you've based it all on faulty assumptions.

    Look, medicine is an evidence based field. You need to consider your options and make your decisions (especially big decisions which will affect the rest of your life) based on actual evidence and facts, not arbitrary and nonsensical concepts like "respect". Your colleagues will give you respect if you're hard working, smart ,and fundamentally a decent person and decent team member. Your seniors will most likely not even know which medical school you went to. Make your decisions based on what's actually important, not what you think will make you look impressive.
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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    Unless your Dad really has 100s of thousands of pounds to spare (and if he works for the NHS I doubt that will be the case) then do medicine in the UK. Sit the USMLE part 1 and 2 during med school and kick ass in them. Make some American Doctor friends and arrange shadowing with them.

    But realistically, give your self some breathing space. You're 16/17? It is all very good to have ambitions but you don't need to have it all mapped out yet. Focus on getting good grades and keeping up your extra curricular.

    Have you even done any work experience? Before setting surgery in America up on a pedestal, have you even looked in to what its like over there? They may have a shorter training programme, in years, but thats because you do a lot more hours each week. No EWTD over there (though not that we will have one here for much longer).

    I think its also a habit of the young to feel you have to go to the very 'best' schools in order to be successful. This is ********, especially in medicine. If you want to apply to medicine you're going to have to learn to be a bit more realistic. Places like Harvard have ridiculous competition rates, for home students let alone internationals. Yes, it might be possible for a UK student to get in, but is it likely? No. Our schooling system just isn't set up to deliver the kind of things that places like Harvard ask for.

    Another thing. Do you even know what these universities are like? Except that they're 'prestigious'. You're setting yourself up for a very long, hard, and extremely expensive path.

    tl;dr Calm down a bit. get the idea of prestige out of your head. Work out if you actually want to deal with the reality of medicine
    America is ****ing expensive and they care far too much about their own egos.
    THIS. I couldn't agree with it more.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    What are you talking about/mean?
    Affirmative Action isn't designed to benefit white people applying to Harvard (or anywhere for that matter).
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    (Original post by VNN)
    Thanks!

    Hope you get into those universities...

    Would you say that prestige in terms of university is least important for medicine as a whole?
    Personally yes medicine is the most competitive course to get into at any university.
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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    Unless your Dad really has 100s of thousands of pounds to spare (and if he works for the NHS I doubt that will be the case) then do medicine in the UK. Sit the USMLE part 1 and 2 during med school and kick ass in them. Make some American Doctor friends and arrange shadowing with them.

    But realistically, give your self some breathing space. You're 16/17? It is all very good to have ambitions but you don't need to have it all mapped out yet. Focus on getting good grades and keeping up your extra curricular.

    Have you even done any work experience? Before setting surgery in America up on a pedestal, have you even looked in to what its like over there? They may have a shorter training programme, in years, but thats because you do a lot more hours each week. No EWTD over there (though not that we will have one here for much longer).

    I think its also a habit of the young to feel you have to go to the very 'best' schools in order to be successful. This is ********, especially in medicine. If you want to apply to medicine you're going to have to learn to be a bit more realistic. Places like Harvard have ridiculous competition rates, for home students let alone internationals. Yes, it might be possible for a UK student to get in, but is it likely? No. Our schooling system just isn't set up to deliver the kind of things that places like Harvard ask for.

    Another thing. Do you even know what these universities are like? Except that they're 'prestigious'. You're setting yourself up for a very long, hard, and extremely expensive path.

    tl;dr Calm down a bit. get the idea of prestige out of your head. Work out if you actually want to deal with the reality of medicine
    America is ****ing expensive and they care far too much about their own egos.
    (Original post by Reality Check)
    THIS. I couldn't agree with it more.
    Same here. There's a reason why I chose not to apply to the United States for university. Although I still have to pay international fees elsewhere, America is more expensive than anywhere else in the globe in terms of education. Quite frankly I do not think it is worth it at least at the undergraduate level. Many of my American friends are applying to the UK and other countries because they recognize this fact. To add on to @ForestCat 's point, the US system has an extreme emphasis on extracurriculars that aren't super curricular activities. (I am currently in a US system. You cannot get into a "prestigious" US university without having everything. I know a person who is currently at Princeton, who was not only the head of his school's Model United Nations program but he was also the head of our science research team which has won international competitions and is a Varsity Tennis Player. - He got deferred from Harvard. Not saying that you cannot get in but it is honestly unlikely that as an international applicant that you will have a great chance of getting in. Be more realistic if you want to have a chance at studying in the US for medicine in the graduate level, because going to these "prestigious" universities in the undergraduate level might set you up for failure. From some admissions people in medical schools in the US which I had the privilege of talking to, they would rather accept people from less "prestigious" universities with high gpas than accept people in Ivy League level universities with sub-par gpas.

    Also please do more research on these universities, when I was thinking about applying to the US I researched a lot about every aspect of the universities that I wanted to apply to. The fact is although they are "prestigious" universities, they might not fit your style of learning or you might not like it there. Don't be blinded by rankings or international prestige. Many of these "prestigious" universities, unlike in the UK, only invests in graduate research and does not allocate too many resources to the undergraduates. I think the UK does extremely well in this regard.

    You do not have to decide your vocation right now, honestly, I understand that there is sometimes family pressure in Asian families to become a doctor, lawyer, etc... One of my friend's family told him/her that they won't pay for his/her education if he doesn't do Medicine in the future. However please focus on getting the grades first before considering the possibilities of applying for a Medicine degree in the future. Focus on the present.

    ForestCat's post's final sentence summarizes it pretty well, just wanted to elaborate on some points
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    I do not know everything about US universities but I think you have to go there to College first for pre-med for 2 or 3 years (what in the UK is called the pre-clinical stage which you do at Uni) and then after that you'd apply to Harvard Medical School for what would be the equivalent of the clinical stage.
    Though I repeat, I'm not very well informed about US med-schools so I would suggest you do some research about them.
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    (Original post by Fadel)
    You haven't even completed your GCSEs and you're already thinking you're gonna get accepted into Cambridge.


    I don't think they're saying they will definitely get in to Cambridge but they wanted to know what their options are and how they should start preparing now .
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    (Original post by VNN)
    Anyhow...I would love to study medicine for true reasons And not for glamour or prestige or money....Do I have to do a pre med course,can I not directly say apply and if I am accepted do medicine undergraduate?
    Nearly all programs are graduate entry. Google is your friend.

    I admit that the reasons I want to be a surgeon is due to my passion for medicine but the reason I want to go to America is due to the better working environment mostly and some due to the money in comparison to the UK,is This wrong?
    No definitely correct. As I say, if conscription does go through I'd have major reservations about applying to do medicine in the UK, especially for someone internationally-minded like yourself.

    European med schools might be worth looking into if being mobile is that important to you. England is putting up walls and its going to stop doctors from being able to leave as well as stopping people from entering.

    Also,do you think I would be a ocmpetitve applicant considering I'm doing GCSE and A Levels and not IB or have a valid GPA?
    It will be absurdly hard to get into the US. But you can apply - all you lose is the application fee.

    Don't think its easy in the uk either though. Almost two thirds of medicine applicants don't get any offers at all, and whilst your current profile looks good, its hardly unusual.

    (Original post by VNN)
    Oh nice..surely they would have a lower chance than the British counter-parts?
    International competition ratios are much higher yes.

    Plus americans tend to be particularly disadvantaged as their education is so broad that their science knowledge is way behind Europeans at the same level.

    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    If you graduate from a 5/6 year course in the UK, you may go to the US to do some exam in preparation for residency,
    Not if Jeremy Hunt manages to impose 4 years conscription - you'll be forced to work in the UK or pay many tens of thousands of pounds in fines to the UK government.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    Why do you mean?
    My dad as a surgeon say that there is a direct medicine entry?
    medicine is grad degree in us, you would need to complete I think 4 years of "college" and then apply to a us medical school. No you can't directly go from sixth from to an American medical school. Also there is no such thing as a top medical school in uk they are all regulated by the GMC and have excellent standards of teaching furthermore after medical school everyone gets placed as a junior doctor, if someone went to Cambridge they wouldn't get special treatment. Lastly if I were you I would think very carefully about applying to a US medical school and do proper research.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    is Imperial college well known?
    I don't know if they do or not, I think to most none British people, its all grouped into University of London where incidentally, Dr Watson of Holmes and Watson fame graduated from.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    I am south Asian...
    Really doubt there would be discrimination?
    Unfortunately, it happens. There are many stories of Asians and Americans of Asian descent who are rejected from Harvard and other Ivies despite having higher SAT scores and better extra circulars than applicants of other races who are accepted.
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    (Original post by ForestCat)
    Unless your Dad really has 100s of thousands of pounds to spare (and if he works for the NHS I doubt that will be the case) then do medicine in the UK. Sit the USMLE part 1 and 2 during med school and kick ass in them. Make some American Doctor friends and arrange shadowing with them.

    But realistically, give your self some breathing space. You're 16/17? It is all very good to have ambitions but you don't need to have it all mapped out yet. Focus on getting good grades and keeping up your extra curricular.

    Have you even done any work experience? Before setting surgery in America up on a pedestal, have you even looked in to what its like over there? They may have a shorter training programme, in years, but thats because you do a lot more hours each week. No EWTD over there (though not that we will have one here for much longer).

    I think its also a habit of the young to feel you have to go to the very 'best' schools in order to be successful. This is ********, especially in medicine. If you want to apply to medicine you're going to have to learn to be a bit more realistic. Places like Harvard have ridiculous competition rates, for home students let alone internationals. Yes, it might be possible for a UK student to get in, but is it likely? No. Our schooling system just isn't set up to deliver the kind of things that places like Harvard ask for.

    Another thing. Do you even know what these universities are like? Except that they're 'prestigious'. You're setting yourself up for a very long, hard, and extremely expensive path.

    tl;dr Calm down a bit. get the idea of prestige out of your head. Work out if you actually want to deal with the reality of medicine
    America is ****ing expensive and they care far too much about their own egos.
    Thanks.

    My dad does not work for the NHS,he is a locum consultant specialist surgeon at a private firm....

    THE ONLY REASON I WANT TO BE A SURGEON IN AMERICA INSTEAD OF THE UK IS DUE TO BETTER WORKING ENVIRONMENTS AND THE INCREASED MONEY...

    However the reason i want to do medicine is my passion for it....

    I would love to study where I'm comfortable(UK) and then go to America in my 30's after i become a fully qualified surgeon(after doing the USMLE exams)...

    My worry is even if i get the exams successfully completed and make it to America as a surgeon,i MAY BE SEVERELY DISADVANTAGED compared to America surgeons financially and in other aspects...

    Is this too much to think about or?Im just worrying a lot about this and yes i know,i worry a lot!
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    (Original post by VNN)
    Thanks.

    My dad does not work for the NHS,he is a locum consultant specialist surgeon at a private firm....

    THE ONLY REASON I WANT TO BE A SURGEON IN AMERICA INSTEAD OF THE UK IS DUE TO BETTER WORKING ENVIRONMENTS AND THE INCREASED MONEY...

    However the reason i want to do medicine is my passion for it....

    I would love to study where I'm comfortable(UK) and then go to America in my 30's after i become a fully qualified surgeon(after doing the USMLE exams)...

    My worry is even if i get the exams successfully completed and make it to America as a surgeon,i MAY BE SEVERELY DISADVANTAGED compared to America surgeons financially and in other aspects...

    Is this too much to think about or?Im just worrying a lot about this and yes i know,i worry a lot!
    There really is no need for the capitals, WE GET IT.

    Like I said. Calm down. A lot can change in a year, or 5. You don't need to have it all mapped out. No one knows what the climate for moving to America in 10-20 years will be. Hell, if Trump gets in to power, there may be no America by then,

    You're doing the right things at the moment. Focus on getting good grades and see how year 12 goes. Get as much work experience as you can. Find out if you would actually want to be a Doctor in the UK. Yeah, you may want to move to the US in the future, but realistically you're going to have to train here. And like nexttime points out, you will be conscripted for 4 years here, if Hunt gets his way. Is this something you can live with. Would you enjoy medicine enough to put up with the **** that comes with it in this country.
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    Not if Jeremy Hunt manages to impose 4 years conscription - you'll be forced to work in the UK or pay many tens of thousands of pounds in fines to the UK government.[/QUOTE]

    I did mention that, if you look at the reference to fines.
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    (Original post by VNN)
    So how exactly will the training be shorter in the US for surgeons if they have to do a pre-medical degree?
    Post-grad training is shorter, because they work their interns/residents into the ground. I don't think it is that much shorter if you are counting from school. Also bear in mind that as a neurosurgeon over there, you would be paying tens of thousands of dollars a year in malpractice insurance, which eats into your healthy income quite quickly.

    You didn't answer my question about where Harvard say they'll take people straight from school. I'm 99% sure it's impossible.
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    (Original post by Helenia)
    Post-grad training is shorter, because they work their interns/residents into the ground. I don't think it is that much shorter if you are counting from school. Also bear in mind that as a neurosurgeon over there, you would be paying tens of thousands of dollars a year in malpractice insurance, which eats into your healthy income quite quickly.

    You didn't answer my question about where Harvard say they'll take people straight from school. I'm 99% sure it's impossible.
    I'm sorry i was wrong about that...Thanks for the info...

    One more question:

    Average neurosurgeon salary UK:130k USD
    Average neurosurgeon salary US:525k USD

    that is around 4 times more...

    However NHS covers many things like malpractice insurance as you said...

    How much(Pre-tax) money would each of the neurosurgeon(in UK AND US) have after all formalities and expenses such as insurance etc...

    I know there are countless no. of variables but i mean in general...
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    (Original post by VNN)
    I'm sorry i was wrong about that...Thanks for the info...

    One more question:

    Average neurosurgeon salary UK:130k USD
    Average neurosurgeon salary US:525k USD

    that is around 4 times more...

    However NHS covers many things like malpractice insurance as you said...

    How much(Pre-tax) money would each of the neurosurgeon(in UK AND US) have after all formalities and expenses such as insurance etc...

    I know there are countless no. of variables but i mean in general...
    Sorry but do you understand how hard and competitive it is to get surgical training in uk or us and I'm pretty sure its harder to become a neurosurgeon and like someone above said you will pay a lot in malpractice insurance. You are in year 11 you haven't even done your GCSE's focus on studying you have at least 5 years to worry about going to America or becoming a neurosurgeon and who knows maybe at uni you might change the field you're interested in because I doubt you've been exposed to the different fields in medicine.
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    (Original post by medicapplicant)
    Sorry but do you understand how hard and competitive it is to get surgical training in uk or us and I'm pretty sure its harder to become a neurosurgeon and like someone above said you will pay a lot in malpractice insurance. You are in year 11 you haven't even done your GCSE's focus on studying you have at least 5 years to worry about going to America or becoming a neurosurgeon and who knows maybe at uni you might change the field you're interested in because I doubt you've been exposed to the different fields in medicine.
    Can't agree more, get more experience in the field, reading and shadowing doctors, but more importantly focus on academics
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    (Original post by VNN)
    I'm sorry i was wrong about that...Thanks for the info...

    One more question:

    Average neurosurgeon salary UK:130k USD
    Average neurosurgeon salary US:525k USD

    that is around 4 times more...

    However NHS covers many things like malpractice insurance as you said...

    How much(Pre-tax) money would each of the neurosurgeon(in UK AND US) have after all formalities and expenses such as insurance etc...

    I know there are countless no. of variables but i mean in general...
    I don't know at all, I'm afraid. Pretty sure that a US neurosurgeon would earn more than a UK one, but would also have to work a lot more and be at higher risk of being sued (though it's a pretty high litigation specialty even here). Really don't focus on neurosurgery or even surgery for now though - get some more general work experience of medicine, not just with your dad, and see if you can realistically see yourself in the career. That and focusing on your GCSEs is the best thing for you at the moment.
 
 
 
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