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Stuff tax £s up Nissan's backside to keep 'em from leaving - way to save the economy! watch

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    (Original post by Maker)
    You seem to be happy Britain has got itself in such a weak position it has to pay foreign companies to stay in the country.

    As to what made Nissan stay in the country, Nissan has insisted it get compensation if Brexit adversely affected their business and I think it safe to assume that is what they got.

    The problem now is all other companies will want the same which means Britain could end up paying billions to companies if their businesses are affected by Brexit. This gives extra ammunition to EU negotiators who will use it to leverage a better deal from Britain.
    You just keep pushing your assumption that the UK government is 'paying' Nissan to stay. It had been denied outright by government officials.

    I challenge you to give me evidence or any verified news source that indicates that the government is paying Nissan.

    Until you have evidence to back up your claim, it just makes you someone who's trying to find a problem to complain about when there isn't any.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    You just keep pushing your assumption that the UK government is 'paying' Nissan to stay. It had been denied outright by government officials.

    I challenge you to give me evidence or any verified news source that indicates that the government is paying Nissan.

    Until you have evidence to back up your claim, it just makes you someone who's trying to find a problem to complain about when there isn't any.
    You can infer things you know, its called deduction, Nissan says in public it wants compensation to stay in Britain, the government does a secret deal with Nissan and they stay in Britain. Its not too much of a stretch to deduce Nissan was promised compensation to stay in Britain.

    You should watch Sherlock to get the idea of what deduction is, its out on DVD and there are many attractive and talented actors in it.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You can infer things you know, its called deduction, Nissan says in public it wants compensation to stay in Britain, the government does a secret deal with Nissan and they stay in Britain. Its not too much of a stretch to deduce Nissan was promised compensation to stay in Britain.

    You should watch Sherlock to get the idea of what deduction is, its out on DVD and there are many attractive and talented actors in it.
    A little condescending. I'd suggest that that's actually conjecture rather than deduction.

    There are indirect ways the government can 'compensate' if tariffs were imposed, but Article 3 of WTO rules explicitly prevents subsidies from being paid. I'm inclined to believe confidence has been restored as part of the new industrial strategy being paved: should have more of an idea of this later in the year.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    A little condescending. I'd suggest that that's actually conjecture rather than deduction.

    There are indirect ways the government can 'compensate' if tariffs were imposed, but Article 3 of WTO rules explicitly prevents subsidies from being paid. I'm inclined to believe confidence has been restored as part of the new industrial strategy being paved: should have more of an idea of this later in the year.
    I am well aware of WTO rules surrounding state subsidies.

    If the deal was so benign and part of an industrial strategy, why keep it a secret? If you are going to apply it to everyone in the sector, you can't keep it a secret because a secret strategy that applies to everyone will soon be revealed.. Again, deduction you see.

    I expect we will soon know what the deal is since the WTO and the EU will have to be told to make sure its not an illegal subsidy and they leak like sieves.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You can infer things you know, its called deduction, Nissan says in public it wants compensation to stay in Britain, the government does a secret deal with Nissan and they stay in Britain. Its not too much of a stretch to deduce Nissan was promised compensation to stay in Britain.

    You should watch Sherlock to get the idea of what deduction is, its out on DVD and there are many attractive and talented actors in it.
    1. The government had stated explicitly there is no compensation involved to Nissan.

    2. It was confirmed that the assurance was a government verbal commitment to maintain tariff free trading between the UK and the EU for the automotive industry.

    Now you can 'deduct' all you want, at the end of the day your views are assumptions which had been denied publicly by the government.

    Anything the government does that do not fit your agenda, you can keep 'deducting' it into other things.

    Now it is simply be a case of what Maker thinks on TSR, versus official government statements and verified news sources.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    And East Asian governments have also done this for years.

    What it really exposes is the fallacy of the "Washington consensus" that "the free market is always best" and "government should just step out of the way".

    I wonder what would happen if the UK government allowed "market forces" to determine investment in the UK post-Brexit.
    I just been reading Bad Samaritans by Ha-Joon Chang and according to him pretty much all the wealthy countries did this kind of thing in order to develop and industrialise.


    (Original post by Drewski)
    It is worth noting that the only reason Airbus operates it's A320 final assembly line in Hamburg because the German government and the EU gives them loans and guarantees.

    When another government does this its, of course, completely fine.
    When the British government does this it is, of course, a sign of corruption and desperation.
    I think it is that we are all told about the wonders of free markets and how governments can only mess things up and should but out. This type of activity goes against what our leaders tell us is good.

    So whilst a disgusting lefty like me who has no inherent problem with the government interfering with the economy, by our rulers' own standards (well their propaganda standards anyway who knows what they really think) this is bad economic practise and if Brexit results in this kind of thing happening that is a bad thing. You can not blame people for listing to their leaders and then drawing conclusions from what they tell them. Especially when said leaders have no interest in providing economic education to the population at large.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    1. The government had stated explicitly there is no compensation involved to Nissan.

    2. It was confirmed that the assurance was a government verbal commitment to maintain tariff free trading between the UK and the EU for the automotive industry.

    Now you can 'deduct' all you want, at the end of the day your views are assumptions which had been denied publicly by the government.

    Anything the government does that do not fit your agenda, you can keep 'deducting' it into other things.

    Now it is simply be a case of what Maker thinks on TSR, versus official government statements and verified news sources.
    Yawn what a total load of rubbish!
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Then I can say we live in a time when TitanicTeutonicPhil's opinion clearly is more important than official government sources saying otherwise.
    Look at post #49 in this thread. The government has ADMITTED that assurances (read: financial benefits) have been given. You are wrong, mate. You've been making yourself look like an absolute idiot in this thread for several days now for not keeping up with the news. Well done.

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Growth had been sluggish across the EU and the World, especially China, compared to same period last year. Q3 growth of 0.5% is actually higher than most EU countries.
    Fact is: growth is down after Brexit. It is hurting your economy, and will do so even more in the next months and years.


    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Also not sure you know how stock markets work, they self regulate. It is by no means cheap at this current level, if it is indeed cheap then it would adjust to it in an instant, anything else would just be your assumption.
    I seem to know much better than you how they work, given that I have actually worked in the industry and don't just talk out of my ass like you stupid child. With your collapsed currency, it is indeed cheap for foreign investors to buys stock of internationally active companies based in the UK (unlike with geographically un-diversified companies, as they will suffer when the UK's economy goes down the drain). Not an assumption, it's a fact - you're just not intelligent enough to comprehend it.

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    There is also no evidence that Financial Services industry is relocating. You are taking the words of a few trade associations bosses and trying to spin it into fact. They said many things before the referendum which are proved false now.
    Again, you don't really follow what's going on, do you? Well, here you are, let me make you look like an idiot once again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-of-brexit-uk

    Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.

    [...]

    Of Britain’s position, he writes that banking is the country’s biggest export industry by far, and that the current trajectory threatens not just tariff-free trade but the legal right of banks to provide services.

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    As for enemployment - 'The total number of people in jobs remained at a record high of 31.8 million, the ONS figures showed. Although there was a "small rise" in unemployment, it was accompanied by more people actively seeking work, ONS statistician Nick Palmer said. Some of that rise came from more women looking for work. In the three months to August, 73.4% of women were either in work or seeking jobs, the highest rate since records began in 1971, the ONS said.'

    There are actually a record number of people in work. It's just that more people are now actively seeking work when they previously weren't, also a good thing to our economy.
    Unemployment is up. Of course more people are looking for work, it's clear for everyone to see how your economy is tanking, people are panicking, even your hordes of moochers. Too bad business are letting people off in greater numbers because they know tough times are ahead.

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Business confidence is high and exceeding pre-referendum level, with a current upward trajectory
    It's actually at referendum levels, not exceeding. And what level is it coming from? So 37% of surveyed firms think business prospects will improve? That's not a whole lot. And that's only because Brexit hasn't actually been triggered and firms know your government is dragging its feet - you don't wanna wreck the economy earlier than needed, do you?

    Bonus article for you: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37838087
    Enjoy rampant inflation!
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    1. The government had stated explicitly there is no compensation involved to Nissan.

    2. It was confirmed that the assurance was a government verbal commitment to maintain tariff free trading between the UK and the EU for the automotive industry.
    And what does point 2 equate to, hmmm? Since you will lose access to the single market, someone will have to pay for those tariffs - oh yeah, it'll be the taxpayer!
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    And what does point 2 equate to, hmmm? Since you will lose access to the single market, someone will have to pay for those tariffs - oh yeah, it'll be the taxpayer!
    This is why the government is looking for access to the single market, without being within the single market.

    As I have said, tariffs are always mutually applied, the UK would result in a net revenue if both sides impose tariffs since the UK has a trade deficit. It is then up to the government to spend that extra revenue to compensate for the loss of competitiveness (about 2.3% MFN rate) due to EU tariff.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Look at post #49 in this thread. The government has ADMITTED that assurances (read: financial benefits) have been given. You are wrong, mate. You've been making yourself look like an absolute idiot in this thread for several days now for not keeping up with the news. Well done.

    Read the articles again.

    The government had admitted that the reassurance was a commitment to Nissan on achieving tariff free automotive trade. It had be outright denied that there were any financial assistance.

    It is your assumption (and a wrong one) that the government is paying Nissan to stay.


    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Fact is: growth is down after Brexit. It is hurting your economy, and will do so even more in the next months and years.

    I have put things into perspective for you, our growth trend is in line with the world economy in the last year, not to mention Q3 0.5% growth is very good, actually one of the highest in the EU and amongst developed nations.

    If you want to ignore the big picture, why don't you flip a coin? Heads for growth, tails for recession. Might make growth analysis a bit simpler for you.



    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    I seem to know much better than you how they work, given that I have actually worked in the industry and don't just talk out of my ass like you stupid child. With your collapsed currency, it is indeed cheap for foreign investors to buys stock of internationally active companies based in the UK (unlike with geographically un-diversified companies, as they will suffer when the UK's economy goes down the drain). Not an assumption, it's a fact - you're just not intelligent enough to comprehend it.
    You know, saying that you know better doesn't really prove anything except that you are desperate to prove it. The stock market had readjusted and stabilised. Why don't you (or anyone) stock up on FTSE 100 stocks if they are so cheap now?

    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Again, you don't really follow what's going on, do you? Well, here you are, let me make you look like an idiot once again:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-of-brexit-uk

    Britain’s biggest banks are preparing to relocate out of the UK in the first few months of 2017 amid growing fears over the impending Brexit negotiations, while smaller banks are making plans to get out before Christmas.

    [...]

    Of Britain’s position, he writes that banking is the country’s biggest export industry by far, and that the current trajectory threatens not just tariff-free trade but the legal right of banks to provide services.

    It was stated by a trade association boss, as I have said. This does not mean they are really moving, the very same few people said a lot of things which are not true before the referendum. If Anthony Browne said tomorrow the UK is going to achieve great growth outside of the EU, are you suddenly going to believe him, just because he said so? Or are you taking his words as fact right now, just because it suits your agenda?

    How many banks had left the UK? Zero.

    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Unemployment is up. Of course more people are looking for work, it's clear for everyone to see how your economy is tanking, people are panicking, even your hordes of moochers. Too bad business are letting people off in greater numbers because they know tough times are ahead.
    I will just repeat the facts again.

    Total people in work are at a record level. Unemployment is up because people previously not on the employment record (not seeking for work) are now willing to look for work. These are both good things.

    I gave you the facts, but you seem to want to make up an assumption that people are 'panicking' for work. This is how fragile your argument is, all assumptions because you cannot argue with the facts.

    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    It's actually at referendum levels, not exceeding. And what level is it coming from? So 37% of surveyed firms think business prospects will improve? That's not a whole lot. And that's only because Brexit hasn't actually been triggered and firms know your government is dragging its feet - you don't wanna wreck the economy earlier than needed, do you?
    " Overall confidence reached its highest level since April driven by significant improvements in both business prospects and economic optimism.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...k-economy-hol/

    It is at its highest level since April 2016. So you are incorrect.

    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Bonus article for you: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37838087
    Enjoy rampant inflation!
    You mean the 4% inflation estimated by the NIESR who predicted the UK economy to shrink between 0.2% Q3, but actually the UK grew by 0.5%?

    Again, whatever suits your agenda buddy. I like to stick with the facts.
 
 
 
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