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    (Original post by Pride)
    If I have been indoctrinated to believe what I believe, why are you so annoyed? Why do you insult me? With your logic, it's not my fault I'm indoctrinated. It's not my fault I will indoctrinate my kids, and that they will indoctrinate their kids and so on and so on...

    It's incredible how inconsistent you are (you're stealing the theistic idea that people are culpable for their actions, and then saying that it's "silliness", and you don't see it. I keep explaining it, and you just don't see it.
    I don't blame you for having been indoctrinated. if, however, you indoctrinate your own children that is very much your fault. After all, you have free will and can choose to allow them to make their own decisions about religious beliefs when they are old enough to understand.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I don't blame you for having been indoctrinated. if, however, you indoctrinate your own children that is very much your fault. After all, you have free will and can choose to allow them to make their own decisions about religious beliefs when they are old enough to understand.
    I thought the point was that people are indoctrinated *so* they cannot make a rational decision to stay with the religion. Or so the story goes.

    But if this whole thread is about people indoctrinated as a little child and then encouraged not to question their beliefs or think about religion for themselves, thats probably a minority of children in Britain, heck its even probably a less than half in the USA!

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    (Original post by Pride)
    Why do you think I asked you the question? What was the point I was trying to make? Would you like me to make it again?
    Everyone is indoctrinated to a certain extent- is that your point?

    The problem is indoctrination into religion because religion is, simply put, bad. Perhaps my title should have been 'Religious indoctrination'.
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    (Original post by Whitewell)
    I thought the point was that people are indoctrinated *so* they cannot make a rational decision to stay with the religion. Or so the story goes.

    But if this whole thread is about people indoctrinated as a little child and then encouraged not to question their beliefs or think about religion for themselves, thats probably a minority of children in Britain, heck its even probably a less than half in the USA!

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    Once a child has been indoctrinated into a religion it is far more difficult for that child to move away from that religion. If a child is not indoctrinated, I agree that it is less far likely it will end up following a religion since it will be educated at a time when it is more likely to consider things in an independent and analytical way. Few adults are likely to be predisposed to believe ancient religious writings.

    I would hope that all children would be encouraged to question their beliefs. It is a travesty that many religious parents take the opposite attitude, and punish or disown children that move away from the parents' religion.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Once a child has been indoctrinated into a religion it is far more difficult for that child to move away from that religion. If a child is not indoctrinated, I agree that it is less far likely it will end up following a religion since it will be educated at a time when it is more likely to consider things in an independent and analytical way. Few adults are likely to be predisposed to believe ancient religious writings.

    I would hope that all children would be encouraged to question their beliefs. It is a travesty that many religious parents take the opposite attitude, and punish or disown children that move away from the parents' religion.
    In Britain, i see no reason to believe that the majority of parents do not allow their children to question their beliefs. Id bet that the vast majority do.

    Id be interested if any studies have gone into this. I have been to religious primary and secondary school, then stayed on at that sixth form. I dont think i can think one example where people blindly followed their religion. Heck, most weren't religious by 13!

    It sounds more like a scare tactic. 'Parents brainwash children and lock them away from thinking about it. . . Beware!!!'

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    (Original post by Whitewell)
    In Britain, i see no reason to believe that the majority of parents do not allow their children to question their beliefs. Id bet that the vast majority do.

    Id be interested if any studies have gone into this. I have been to religious primary and secondary school, then stayed on at that sixth form. I dont think i can think one example where people blindly followed their religion. Heck, most weren't religious by 13!

    It sounds more like a scare tactic. 'Parents brainwash children and lock them away from thinking about it. . . Beware!!!'

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    You obviously aren't aware of this kind of thing then:

    http://www.soundvision.com/article/2...m-teens-muslim

    or this:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7190281.html

    or this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-doctors.html

    or this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...istianity.html

    or this:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-islam-6860203
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    You are really scrapping the barrel arent you? Basically a blog post, an instance of a minority sect (ultra orthodox at that), an instance of fundamentalist Christians and the rest are instances of muslims bullying apostates?

    It doesn't say anything as to the how the vast majority of religious parents are with their kids in Britain. One instance of a fundamentalist Christian doesnt shed any light on how the average Brit thinks about his religion. I'm not saying these things dont go on, they just arent typical.

    How ultra orthodox Jews or muslims act towards their children should obviously be seen as different from British Christians.

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    If children were not indoctrinated at a young age then religion would have died out a long time ago.It should be outlawed.Try telling an adult whos never heard of it before,that a wafer of bread turns into an actual human just by a priest waving his hands.Or that flying horses exist,or that the dead can rise.Indeed even people of other religions recognise how silly it is.A muslim will deny that bread can turn into the body of christ and christians will deny that flying horses can exist.There just seems to be a cognitive dissonance when it comes to their own religion.T he thing is that its very hard to reason someone out of religion because their belief is not based on reason but on emotion.I used to believe in god but I didn't so much reason my way out of it, as fall out with god.And after a while I just came to realise he didn't actually exist.
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    (Original post by Whitewell)
    How ultra orthodox Jews or muslims act towards their children should obviously be seen as different from British Christians.
    Why? Are Jews and Moslems in Britain somehow excluded from a desire to eliminate indoctrination? Are minority sects somehow not religious?

    You really should not assume all the religious people (or even a majority of them) in Britain are laisse faire vanilla Christians. They aren't. I would hazard a guess that most Moslem parents are very worried about keeping their offspring within Islam in the land of the infidel, and their indoctrination extends to making the kids rote learn the Koran.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Why? Are Jews and Moslems in Britain somehow excluded from a desire to eliminate indoctrination? Are minority sects somehow not religious?

    You really should not assume all the religious people (or even a majority of them) in Britain are laisse faire vanilla Christians. They aren't. I would hazard a guess that most Moslem parents are very worried about keeping their offspring within Islam in the land of the infidel, and their indoctrination extends to making the kids rote learn the Koran.
    Im very unfamiliar with Ultra orthodox jews, i also have very little experience with how muslim parents deal with their kids, though I know plenty of testimony as to the rejection muslim kids can suffer if they apostate. As such, all religious parents should not be lumped in together as if it is the same thing. Such simple thinking inevitably goes awry.

    Of the Christians in Britain, again, i see no reason to think the parents dont give their children good space to think and question their beliefs. Whether they are vanilla or not. Ive seen surprisingly many very religious parents who have encouraged debate in the household. If there was some kind of independent, large scale study into this, showing the opposite i would change my mind.


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    (Original post by meridian0)
    The problem is indoctrination into religion because religion is, simply put, bad.
    So British laws guarantee freedom of being bad? :cool:
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    T he thing is that its very hard to reason someone out of religion because their belief is not based on reason but on emotion.I used to believe in god but I didn't so much reason my way out of it, as fall out with god.And after a while I just came to realise he didn't actually exist.
    Kinda pushing your own reasons for believing in God on everyone else there, aren't you?



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    (Original post by Whitewell)
    Kinda pushing your own reasons for believing in God on everyone else there, aren't you?



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    Not really.Belief in god isn't based on reason and logic.Its based on emotion.Religion is built upon the fear of death and the desire to believe in an afterlife.Those are emotional reasons and it probably holds true for the majority of believers.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Indeed. If religion were not taught to anyone until they were 18 then these beliefs would be all but non-existent.
    I don't think so, you have many small sects around the world whose members weren't indoctrinated by their parents, such as the Scientology. Even though the number of religious people would be smaller, many people still cannot live without religion. However there wouldn't be "big" religions, but a infinite numbers of short lived sects.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Not really.Belief in god isn't based on reason and logic.Its based on emotion.Religion is built upon the fear of death and the desire to believe in an afterlife.Those are emotional reasons and it probably holds true for the majority of believers.
    The large mainstream religions have always based their religion on reason rather than emotion. Whether you think those reasons are sufficient is where the fun is. In fact, people were basing their belief in God completely on reason and without even following a religion, before many of the largest religions were even born.

    That many religious may base their belief on fear of death doesnt change the fact that many base it on reason too, and have done for thousands of years.

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    religion *is* indoctrination. of a purely nepotistic genesis
    no other movement is so determined by birth-based circumstances
    how else would a person become, say, a hindu? or worse: a muslim? there's either magic or immoralities involved in both.
    religion is nothing but an indication of where you were born, or from whom you were born - pure and simple
    but I suppose you might say the same for atheists.
    however: if I'm not an astrologist, does that mean I was indoctrinated into non-astrology? no...I don't think I'd need to be indoctrinated to not believe in clearly magical beliefs.
    that's why you *can't* say the same for atheists - atheism is basically a total default. even if you ask about how the universe got here, why begin at the assumption of a god in particular? do I do that with regards to, say, the creation of anything else?
 
 
 
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