Clinton or trump - poll Watch

Poll: Who would you vote for in the US election?
Hillary Clinton (631)
72.45%
Donald Trump (240)
27.55%
cbreef
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#61
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#61
(Original post by joecphillips)
You support sell out sanders?

He campaigns against a "political system in which a handful of very wealthy people and special interests will determine who gets elected." then endorses that system
The man gas campaigned against the establishment for 50 years, and the best criticism you can come up with is "sell out"?

He is a god by comparison to these two imbeciles. No corruption, no bullsh't, just an honest man.
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queen-bee
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#62
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#62
Hillary,although I'm abit reluctant
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Fractite
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#63
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#63
Clinton as she's the lesser of two evils.
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Joep95
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#64
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#64
(Original post by cbreef)
The man gas campaigned against the establishment for 50 years, and the best criticism you can come up with is "sell out"?

He is a god by comparison to these two imbeciles. No corruption, no bullsh't, just an honest man.
I'm not saying he isn't but at the end he ended up backing the system he campaigned against, he is a sell out
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Gofre
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#65
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#65
(Original post by joecphillips)
That money could also be said to have gone to a right wing groups that have been involved in important constitutional cases.
Except it didn't, it went to the guys suing somebody Donald had a problem with.

It's not exactly the best look
Jesus, are you guys incapable of admitting fault in the guy?

but it does not necessarily make it illegal unlike a Secretary of State giving special access to donors.
I'm fairly sure the act of taking your foundation's cash and using it for personal gain probably has some legal conflicts. And that was just in your chosen year.

Either way, legality wasn't my point. Even if Trump wasn't in office at the time, his actions show he's just as morally vapid as Hillary. You cannot use her misappropriation of foundation money as a reason she should not be president when he was doing the exact same thing.
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Joep95
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Gofre)
Except it didn't, it went to the guys suing somebody Donald had a problem with.



Jesus, are you guys incapable of admitting fault in the guy?



I'm fairly sure the act of taking your foundation's cash and using it for personal gain probably has some legal conflicts. And that was just in your chosen year.

Either way, legality wasn't my point. Even if Trump wasn't in office at the time, his actions show he's just as morally vapid as Hillary. You cannot use her misappropriation of foundation money as a reason she should not be president when he was doing the exact same thing.
And the guys who it went to are also a right wing group that has fought constitutional cases against them up to the Supreme Court among other things.
If Hillary is elected they will need more money with her plan to overturn the judgement and attack the first amendment of the American constitution.
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Gofre
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#67
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#67
(Original post by joecphillips)
And the guys who it went to are also a right wing group that has fought constitutional cases against them up to the Supreme Court among other things.
If Hillary is elected they will need more money with her plan to overturn the judgement and attack the first amendment of the American constitution.
Yeah, I don't think there's any point in continuing this chat.
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Joep95
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Gofre)
Yeah, I don't think there's any point in continuing this chat.
You may not value it but that group fought for the first amendment and Hillary wants to end that, I would say they are a worthy cause.
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sunshine774
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Ambitious1999)
I support Clinton 100%
Yes so do I! I'm really worried Trump might win though- the polls are SO close!
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Anebris59
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#70
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#70
Clinton
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#71
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#71
Clinton. Not a huge fan of her but tbf she hasn't been as immature as Trump while campaigning.
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RayApparently
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#72
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#72
(Original post by joecphillips)
You support sell out sanders?

He campaigns against a "political system in which a handful of very wealthy people and special interests will determine who gets elected." then endorses that system
What you mean is he respected the result of an election, something that the utterly self-obsessed cry baby Trump seems incapable of doing. If the candidate who beat me offered to implement 80% of my policy proposals covering hugely important issues like education, healthcare, the minimum wage and capital punishment then you know what? I might just endorse them over a candidate I found to be disgusting. A candidate who, by the way, is one of those 'very wealthy(?) people' who's cheated the system at the expense of ordinary people for so many years - a man who epitomises the grossest aspects of unbridled capitalism and represents the utter moral corruption of American politics. Sanders did the right thing. There is nothing honourable about stubbornly achieving nothing for the sake of ideological purity.
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Joep95
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#73
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#73
(Original post by RayApparently)
What you mean is he respected the result of an election, something that the utterly self-obsessed cry baby Trump seems incapable of doing. If the candidate who beat me offered to implement 80% of my policy proposals covering hugely important issues like education, healthcare, the minimum wage and capital punishment then you know what? I might just endorse them over a candidate I found to be disgusting. A candidate who, by the way, is one of those 'very wealthy(?) people' who's cheated the system at the expense of ordinary people for so many years - a man who epitomises the grossest aspects of unbridled capitalism and represents the utter moral corruption of American politics. Sanders did the right thing. There is nothing honourable about stubbornly achieving nothing for the sake of ideological purity.
what he did was campaign on how bad the system was then when he lost he gave in to the system, accepting defeat is one thing but to turn and back what you stood against is not honourable.
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RayApparently
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#74
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#74
(Original post by joecphillips)
what he did was campaign on how bad the system was then when he lost he gave in to the system, accepting defeat is one thing but to turn and back what you stood against is not honourable.
He said "the system" wasn't working for ordinary people. He presented policies that would correct that. He lost the primaries. He waited a very long time to endorse Clinton, which pressured that opposing camp into adopting 80% of those policies. It was excellent politicking. He then endorsed the candidate who would do 80% of the things he wanted to do, rather than throwing it all away. It is a moronic criticism coming from a supposed 'centrist' that people should be satisfied with nothing if they can't get everything. I would not respect someone who was so self-righteous that they would abandon the people they were trying to help for the sake of maintaining some ideological purity. The fact that he didn't do that is why he isn't a 'sell out' - he didn't choose personal gain, he swallowed his pride for what he saw to be the greater good, to the horror of some of his supporters. That's leadership.

As if Trump could ever swallow his pride or quell his massive ego for the good of anyone.
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username878267
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#75
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#75
(Original post by joecphillips)
what he did was campaign on how bad the system was then when he lost he gave in to the system, accepting defeat is one thing but to turn and back what you stood against is not honourable.
Do you ever read anythinng anyone writes?
Clinton's policies and views are still far closer to his than Trump's are.

Trump wants to repeal Obamacare, restrict abortion, lower taxes for the wealthiest and remove the minimum wage.

Clinton does not.
Although Clinton will not be Sanders ideal choice, she is far closer to his views than Trump is.
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Kvothe the Arcane
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#76
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#76
Neither
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Joep95
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Bornblue)
Do you ever read anythinng anyone writes?
Clinton's policies and views are still far closer to his than Trump's are.

Trump wants to repeal Obamacare, restrict abortion, lower taxes for the wealthiest and remove the minimum wage.

Clinton does not.
Although Clinton will not be Sanders ideal choice, she is far closer to his views than Trump is.
I read it but he campaigned against the special interests and then sold himself out to them.
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username878267
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#78
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#78
(Original post by joecphillips)
I read it but he campaigned against the special interests and then sold himself out to them.
He didn't 'sell himself out'.
He simply recognised that despite his obvious and large disagreements with Clinton, that she was still a lot closer to his views than Trump is.

What part of that is selling out? Had he supported Trump that would have been selling out yes, given that trump wants Lower taxes for the wealthy, a Lower minimum wage and to repeal Obamacare.


Just because you say 'Sanders sold out' does not make it so. He had the choice of supporting a candidate he fairly disliked or one that he absolute hates...

What should he have done? Support Trump?
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Joep95
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Bornblue)
He didn't 'sell himself out'.
He simply recognised that despite his obvious and large disagreements with Clinton, that she was still a lot closer to his views than Trump is.

What part of that is selling out? Had he supported Trump that would have been selling out yes, given that trump wants Lower taxes for the wealthy, a Lower minimum wage and to repeal Obamacare.


Just because you say 'Sanders sold out' does not make it so. He had the choice of supporting a candidate he fairly disliked or one that he absolute hates...

What should he have done? Support Trump?
He shouldn't of endorsed her he should of walked away, I'm not saying support trump.

Sanders can either endorse Hillary or oppose a 'political system in which a handful of very wealthy people and special interests will determine who gets elected.' He can't do both despite what he is still trying to do
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username878267
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#80
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#80
(Original post by joecphillips)
He shouldn't of endorsed her he should of walked away, I'm not saying support trump.

Sanders can either endorse Hillary or oppose a 'political system in which a handful of very wealthy people and special interests will determine who gets elected.' He can't do both despite what he is still trying to do
That's ridiculous. Engaging in the political process rather than abstaining is the opposite of selling out.
There were two (realistic) choices on the table, either Clinton or Trump.

He dislikes Clinton but utterly despises Trump. Despite disliking Clinton a Trump presidency would be far worse for him and he's being pragmatic.

You do also realise that through his campaigning he has dragged Clinton to the left and won a number of concessions off her.

He could either support Clinton and get 50% of what he wants or abstain and get nothing (it Trump wins).

That is not selling out. What would be selling out is if he didn't back Clinton and therefore allowed Trump to win, given how Trump stands against everything Sanders believes in.
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