Do bankers pay a 45% tax? Watch

Princepieman
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#61
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#61
(Original post by cbreef)
I'd like to see banking compared side by side with other "skilled" professions like Engineers, Doctors, Police Officers, Lawyers etc.
Aye, you mean the doctors who have the option of going private and making several hundred thousand pounds a year? Or the ones who choose to move to the US, Aus, UAE etc to get higher pay because they don't feel like their labour is as valued in the NHS? Or the Partners at a range of law firms pulling in high six to seven figure payouts based on firm profits? Or the police officers that choose to go into private security for either rich families or highly valuable private businesses because they want a better livelihood? Or the police officers that start their OWN security firms and pay themselves handsomely because their firm is making profit?

Or the engineers who are whisked away on cushy expat packages to go and apply their specialist knowledge elsewhere in the world?

Come on mate, bankers are the same as pretty much any profession where you're responsible for producing profit, utilising high level relationships and making use of specialist knowledge. If people want to earn the same they should move into a position with that responsibility, not look onwards with jealousy and self-righteousness as to what they think someone should get paid.

The economy is not a charity, you either produce or you help those to produce.
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cbreef
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(Original post by _Fergo)
They earned it. They didn't steal it.

It has nothing to do with greed. They've probably trained through hell and are working obscene amount of hours to reach 500k and above.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean others shouldn't. Jeez.

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How is that not greed?
You say the earned it... but how do you decide how much a person is entitled to for their services?
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cbreef
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(Original post by Princepieman)
Aye, you mean the doctors who have the option of going private and making several hundred thousand pounds a year? Or the ones who choose to move to the US, Aus, UAE etc to get higher pay because they don't feel like their labour is as valued in the NHS? Or the Partners at a range of law firms pulling in high six to seven figure payouts based on firm profits? Or the police officers that choose to go into private security for either rich families or highly valuable private businesses because they want a better livelihood? Or the police officers that start their OWN security firms and pay themselves handsomely because their firm is making profit?

Or the engineers who are whisked away on cushy expat packages to go and apply their specialist knowledge elsewhere in the world?

Come on mate, bankers are the same as pretty much any profession where you're responsible for producing profit, utilising high level relationships and making use of specialist knowledge. If people want to earn the same they should move into a position with that responsibility, not look onwards with jealousy and self-righteousness as to what they think someone should get paid.

The economy is not a charity, you either produce or you help those to produce.
All I'm saying is the wealth gap between equally hard working people needs to be adressed. The examples you've used are few and far between with the exception of Lawyers maybe, pretty common for them to have 5 figure salaries if they're experienced.
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biglad2k16
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(Original post by Princepieman)
Aye, you mean the doctors who have the option of going private and making several hundred thousand pounds a year? Or the ones who choose to move to the US, Aus, UAE etc to get higher pay because they don't feel like their labour is as valued in the NHS? Or the Partners at a range of law firms pulling in high six to seven figure payouts based on firm profits? Or the police officers that choose to go into private security for either rich families or highly valuable private businesses because they want a better livelihood? Or the police officers that start their OWN security firms and pay themselves handsomely because their firm is making profit?

Or the engineers who are whisked away on cushy expat packages to go and apply their specialist knowledge elsewhere in the world?

Come on mate, bankers are the same as pretty much any profession where you're responsible for producing profit, utilising high level relationships and making use of specialist knowledge. If people want to earn the same they should move into a position with that responsibility, not look onwards with jealousy and self-righteousness as to what they think someone should get paid.

The economy is not a charity, you either produce or you help those to produce.
Exactly, people seem to think that bankers are somehow undeserving of their pay since no one else earns that much, but a lot of doctors, lawyers, engineers can earn high six figures if they move into the right positions. There are millionaire plastic surgeons in LA, for example. There are plenty of millionaire medical and legal professionals who made their money from starting and running multiple practices.
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_Fergo
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(Original post by cbreef)
How is that not greed?
You say the earned it... but how do you decide how much a person is entitled to for their services?
They don't. It's the company itself that decides.

Greed or not it's money that earned. The reason is immaterial when someone dedicates themselves to their career, and is successful in doing so.

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cbreef
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(Original post by Jagwar Ma)
You get your salary monthly. And remember, you're paying outrageous amounts of tax so you don't see all of that money..
And you're still left with millions in savings... what do you do with that? Help the disadvantaged? Or buy 10 Lamborghinis?
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Princepieman
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(Original post by cbreef)
All I'm saying is the wealth gap between equally hard working people needs to be adressed. The examples you've used are few and far between with the exception of Lawyers maybe, pretty common for them to have 5 figure salaries if they're experienced.
I think you're grossly over-exaggerating how many bankers there are and how many of them actually earn the sums we are speaking about here - especially if you think the examples I've given are 'few and far between'
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will'o'wisp
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(Original post by cbreef)
I'd like to see banking compared side by side with other "skilled" professions like Engineers, Doctors, Police Officers, Lawyers etc.
Ok well personally i think banking is fairly important simply because it revolves around money, all your finance stuff is based around banks and whatever so i's pretty important.

Engineering and police are important but they're important in their own sectors just like banking is important in the world of finance
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Commercial Paper
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Tax is too high in the UK. Period. It's absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand why more people are not furious about it...

We pay HUGE income tax, loads of national insurance, HUGE VAT, council tax, stamp duty, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, car tax etc. And that's just getting started.

The 40% tax bracket starts far too early on as well.

And what do we see for all this tax? **** all. Roads are falling apart, the worst transport infrastructure in Europe, appalling healthcare where you can't even get a GP appointment on weekends, failing schools etc. And a **** load of government debt.

If you're earning sufficient money to pay 45% tax then you're also paying for private healthcare and private schooling so your effective tax rate is much higher than this. Plus add in all the other taxes mentioned above and you're seeing significantly less than half your gross income. And then also add in you need a £1,000,000+ mortgage for a property that is not the size of a third world shed, and you're left with virtually nothing...Oh, and then remember you've got to put an insane amount aside into your pension fund too. And god forbid you should have any other family members to support.

If you're unhappy with your salary, you should find another job. Not ***** that others should earn less. I'm sure most bankers agree that doctors and teachers etc. should be paid more but that doesn't mean they should be paid less or taxed more.

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Kocytean
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(Original post by cbreef)
How people like that can complain about tax is beyond me. "Oh I only made £143,000 not including bonuses last year, poor me" Love to see them live like the rest of us...
I hate threads like these. Has it not occurred to anyone that for those working in finance, thar' be sharks everywhere? That they ****ing worked harder than some stupid raver at Tescos to get where they are? How common it is to pull days sleeping in the office and not going home? It's not exactly a good work-life balance, they do pay for what they get. It wouldn't be a life for me.

Anyway, the market will pay someone what they're worth. If someone generates millions of pounds in investment through their specialist skills, what's wrong with paying them a couple hundred grand? It's just basic economics. There's no secret Illuminati society patting bankers on the back and forcing their salaries above market value. If you didn't pay them enough, they'd go somewhere else who did see their value, because they make money.

I think 45% is probably a bit over the top, but what's there to be done about it? No-one will ever be happy, and I think that 45% is the best compromise. Without the sliding scale, the masses would be paying far more. Going by the scandinavian countries, it would probably be a 35% flat rate and people would be even less happy with that.
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cbreef
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(Original post by Princepieman)
I think you're grossly over-exaggerating how many bankers there are and how many of them actually earn the sums we are speaking about here - especially if you think the examples I've given are 'few and far between'
Another thing I forgot to mention too is the importance of their job to society vs say... doctors/soldiers (who are woefully underpaid btw) but that doesn't seem to matter too much in deciding their pay.
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cbreef
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(Original post by dragonzrmetal)
I hate threads like these. Has it not occurred to anyone that for those working in finance, thar' be sharks everywhere? That they ****ing worked harder than some stupid raver at Tescos to get where they are? How common it is to pull days sleeping in the office and not going home? It's not exactly a good work-life balance, they do pay for what they get. It wouldn't be a life for me.

Anyway, the market will pay someone what they're worth. If someone generates millions of pounds in investment through their specialist skills, what's wrong with paying them a couple hundred grand? It's just basic economics. There's no secret Illuminati society patting bankers on the back and forcing their salaries above market value. If you didn't pay them enough, they'd go somewhere else who did see their value, because they make money.

I think 45% is probably a bit over the top, but what's there to be done about it? No-one will ever be happy, and I think that 45% is the best compromise. Without the sliding scale, the masses would be paying far more. Going by the scandinavian countries, it would probably be a 35% flat rate and people would be even less happy with that.
I've already stated that someone working in tesco obviously should be paid far less, same goes for any other low skilled job. The issue is the minimum wage being too low and bankers and other similar professions being paid too highly. Bonuses for people doing a horrible job of managing are too high.
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Princepieman
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(Original post by cbreef)
Another thing I forgot to mention too is the importance of their job to society vs say... doctors/soldiers (who are woefully underpaid btw) but that doesn't seem to matter too much in deciding their pay.
Ok. So without traders, bankers, salespeople, investment analysts how would a) people invest for their retirement? b) companies and individuals represented by funds access the markets? c) companies raise financing that is more sophisticated than a bank loan? d) negotiate and come to agreeable terms in an acquisition or merger without inaccurate advise that could lead to potential doom for both parties?

Just because a service is from one entity to another does not mean they aren't"t 'needed' or 'valued'. Doctors help individuals one by one, what do they have to do with helping millions of people? Soldiers consciously choose to go and fight other human beings under the guise of 'something' (be that protecting their nation, having something to prove, pressures from the government).. Where do they fit into the large scale nature of the economy?

Everyone keeps misconstruing individual human to human services as the best and most valuable services whilst casting everything else as corrupt and evil. I think that misguided.



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Axion
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(Original post by cbreef)
I've already stated that someone working in tesco obviously should be paid far less, same goes for any other low skilled job. The issue is the minimum wage being too low and bankers and other similar professions being paid too highly. Bonuses for people doing a horrible job of managing are too high.
(Original post by Princepieman)
Ok. So without traders, bankers, salespeople, investment analysts how would a) people invest for their retirement? b) companies and individuals represented by funds access the markets? c) companies raise financing that is more sophisticated than a bank loan? d) negotiate and come to agreeable terms in an acquisition or merger without inaccurate advise that could lead to potential doom for both parties?

Just because a service is from one entity to another does not mean they aren't"t 'needed' or 'valued'. Doctors help individuals one by one, what do they have to do with helping millions of people? Soldiers consciously choose to go and fight other human beings under the guise of 'something' (be that protecting their nation, having something to prove, pressures from the government).. Where do they fit into the large scale nature of the economy?

Everyone keeps misconstruing individual human to human services as the best and most valuable services whilst casting everything else as corrupt and evil. I think that misguided.
So bankers etc. are getting paid too highly? Would you prefer companies to reward their workers LESS and hoard more of the money themselves, which then gets distributed to shareholders who are inevitably the richer people in society anyway?

We can all agree that people who do a horrible job of managing should not get bonuses. Sadly I think you're naïve if you think that is confined to banking.
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cbreef
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(Original post by Princepieman)
Ok. So without traders, bankers, salespeople, investment analysts how would a) people invest for their retirement? b) companies and individuals represented by funds access the markets? c) companies raise financing that is more sophisticated than a bank loan? d) negotiate and come to agreeable terms in an acquisition or merger without inaccurate advise that could lead to potential doom for both parties?

Just because a service is from one entity to another does not mean they aren't"t 'needed' or 'valued'. Doctors help individuals one by one, what do they have to do with helping millions of people? Soldiers consciously choose to go and fight other human beings under the guise of 'something' (be that protecting their nation, having something to prove, pressures from the government).. Where do they fit into the large scale nature of the economy?

Everyone keeps misconstruing individual human to human services as the best and most valuable services whilst casting everything else as corrupt and evil. I think that misguided.


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Pretty sure people would be just fine without those aforementioned services. Would you rather we got rid them or our police force? Thought so. (Not saying those services don't matter, but still...)
A soldier's primary duty is to defend his/her country, without an adequate defence force, your economy is pretty screwed. :rofl:
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Commercial Paper
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(Original post by cbreef)
Pretty sure people would be just fine without those aforementioned services. Would you rather we got rid them or our police force? Thought so. (Not saying those services don't matter, but still...)
A soldier's primary duty is to defend his/her country, without an adequate defence force, your economy is pretty screwed. :rofl:
Yes, I'm sure those guys will do great when the Police Force cannot raise sufficient financing to pay them a salary...Same for soldiers and our defense services.

Most government borrowing which pays for these services is done through investment banks. If the government cannot raise the financing at a cost-effective rate, then those services disappear.
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cbreef
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(Original post by Axion)
So bankers etc. are getting paid too highly? Would you prefer companies to reward their workers LESS and hoard more of the money themselves, which then gets distributed to shareholders who are inevitably the richer people in society anyway?

We can all agree that people who do a horrible job of managing should not get bonuses. Sadly I think you're naïve if you think that is confined to banking.
Well... a lot of the money a company makes gets reinvested, you pay dividends to shareholders if you're a big PLC yes, but not all companies are. How about you give bonuses to normal, hardworking employees who need it more than the guys at the top?
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cbreef
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(Original post by Commercial Paper)
Yes, I'm sure those guys will do great when the Police Force cannot raise sufficient financing to pay them a salary...Same for soldiers and our defense services.

Most government borrowing which pays for these services is done through investment banks. If the government cannot raise the financing at a cost-effective rate, then those services disappear.
I'm pretty sure a country like ours can afford to pay our officers + soldiers a salary without borrowing....
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Axion
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(Original post by cbreef)
Well... a lot of the money a company makes gets reinvested, you pay dividends to shareholders if you're a big PLC yes, but not all companies are. How about you give bonuses to normal, hardworking employees who need it more than the guys at the top?
We are talking about banks? Almost all banks in a good financial state pay dividends, and distribute most of their surplus income that way (the rest seems to be in regulatory fines at the moment!). Almost all banks are large as well, so whether it's private shareholders or public shareholders, the shareholders will get it.

Whether it's a bonus is irrelevant. You might as well say, why not pay hardworking employees more? The reality is that bonuses are performance-contingent for a reason. In downturns, they are more easily cut, and in bad performances, they don't get paid out.

It's performance-based, and generally speaking it is done fairly. Sure there are a few big cases where it hasn't been, but that's not down to the bonuses, that down to companies failing to properly manage themselves. Why should employees in accounting or HR get a sudden bonus coup when their performance does not directly translate into supernormal performance? They have far less responsibility in terms of the overall running of the bank, and heck, their work hours are far better.

You'r missing the point that bonuses are an incentive tool for high-quality performance. Top notch performance in HR or accounting doesn't add that much value to the company. Where the money is, in investment banking, high-quality performance can add tremendous value to the company.
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Commercial Paper
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(Original post by cbreef)
I'm pretty sure a country like ours can afford to pay our officers + soldiers a salary without borrowing....
I wish I could say that was the case but unfortunately it is not. Our government borrows money every single month of every year. In some cases, it is just borrowing money to pay off or refinance pre-existing debt. The tax the UK government receives nowhere near covers our basic services or debt repayments to investors hence the excess borrowing and deficit we have.
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