Should gay conversion therapy be legal? Watch

acupofgreentea
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#61
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#61
Definitely not.

This therapy doesn't work and from what I've learnt of it, it's horrific and can leave those who go through it seriously damaged.

People seek this therapy out as a false hope because they're being taught they're not okay as they are. The point isn't about free choice, it's that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to change their sexuality with this in the first place.

Also, the "free choice" argument does not account for people who may not want to have the therapy alone, but are persuaded/forced into it by family and such like.
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VikkiHanley
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#62
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#62
(Original post by acupofgreentea)
Definitely not.

This therapy doesn't work and from what I've learnt of it, it's horrific and can leave those who go through it seriously damaged.

People seek this therapy out as a false hope because they're being taught they're not okay as they are. The point isn't about free choice, it's that people shouldn't have to feel like they need to change their sexuality with this in the first place.

Also, the "free choice" argument does not account for people who may not want to have the therapy alone, but are persuaded/forced into it by family and such like.
This!

By legalising 'gay conversion' it implies there is something to be cured- a disease as such.

Young homosexual people have enough pressure on them, without the added pressure of disapproving small minded 'family' members or 'friends' to take up such barbaric nonsense.

The sooner we stop looking at people as being something that can be changed, cured or manipulated to fit the 'norm' and as a bleeding human beings we can move on towards equality for all.
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Eunomia
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#63
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#63
If I got enough plastic surgery, I could make myself look like I am of another race, even though my race is part of me and it would require a lot of self-hatred to do that, which isn't healthy.

The reason that I am iffy about legalising conversion therapy and feel that it is a slippery slope, however, is that I am aware that it would be significantly more common for LGBTQIA people to be pressured and bullied into it than it would be fore me to be pressured and bullied into hiding my race via plastic surgery. We don't want to be opening up the floodgates for religious fruitcakes and homophobes to be pushing forcing their children to go to these therapy sessions, hence pushing them further towards self-hatred and depression.
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ThatOldGuy
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#64
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#64
If someone wants to do it, I see no reason why they shouldn't.

We haven't outlawed cigarettes. They're bad for you and some people want to smoke them. We haven't outlawed alcohol. It's bad for you and some people want to drink it.

If people want to change who they are, go nuts. None of my business.
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The Epicurean
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(Original post by ThatOldGuy)
If someone wants to do it, I see no reason why they shouldn't.

We haven't outlawed cigarettes. They're bad for you and some people want to smoke them. We haven't outlawed alcohol. It's bad for you and some people want to drink it.

If people want to change who they are, go nuts. None of my business.
We have age limits on alcohol and cigarette consumption. Would you therefore with to see an age limit on "gay therapy" too?
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ThatOldGuy
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#66
(Original post by The Epicurean)
We have age limits on alcohol and cigarette consumption. Would you therefore with to see an age limit on "gay therapy" too?
Absolutely. I don't want to see parents forcing their kids in to something like 'Gay camp'. On the other hand, some guy decides he doesn't want to be gay - Go nuts. Evidence suggests it won't work, but hey - It's your life. You do you!
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anarchism101
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#67
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#67
It should be completely illegal for minors and anyone with a recent history of mental illness. The government should supply smoking-style warnings about both the (lack of) scientific credibility of these places, and the kind of abusive "techniques" they employ. If, despite that, there are still some non-diagnosed adults who for whatever reason want to subject themselves to torture, I don't think the law should stop them.
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Tootles
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#68
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#68
(Original post by vexd)
Being gay isn't a condition that needs to be treated, your sexuality is a part of you and nobody should feel the need to change it with therapy.
While I believe this and don't think that gays inherently are diseased and need a cure, I do believe that a person's perception of their own sexuality can be warped or changed by experienced or circumstances, whether those are self-imposed or external.

So I believe that yes, it should be legal and available - through self-referral only, and subject to a screening process to determine whether it would work or would just damage the patient.
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Eboracum7
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#69
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#69
As someone who is gay, I can only see social factors being the reason for anyone ever attending such therapy. There is absolutely no reason why a happy gay person, comfortable in their own skin would attend. If someone takes up such therapy, it's for negative reasons. It shouldn't exist.
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ThatOldGuy
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#70
(Original post by Eboracum7)
As someone who is gay, I can only see social factors being the reason for anyone ever attending such therapy. There is absolutely no reason why a happy gay person, comfortable in their own skin would attend. If someone takes up such therapy, it's for negative reasons. It shouldn't exist.
As someone who is a non-smoker, I can only see social factors being the reason for anyone ever to start smoking. There is absolutely no reason why a happy non-smoker, comfortable in their own skin, would start smoking. If someone takes up smoking, it's for negative reasons. It shouldn't exist.
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Eboracum7
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(Original post by ThatOldGuy)
As someone who is a non-smoker, I can only see social factors being the reason for anyone ever to start smoking. There is absolutely no reason why a happy non-smoker, comfortable in their own skin, would start smoking. If someone takes up smoking, it's for negative reasons. It shouldn't exist.
Arguably, smoking shouldn't exist. It probably wouldn't if it wasn't for addictive and social factors, just like gay conversion therapy wouldn't exist if it wasn't for social factors. The problem with your comparison is that smoking is just a habit while a person's sexuality isn't.
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attidude
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#72
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#72
Sir if you're gay, we can't be friends. That's it, I'm a homophobe..
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Praise KEK
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#73
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#73
Yes. No one is being forced to go. If someone wants to go by their own choice then they should be able to.
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Eboracum7
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#74
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#74
(Original post by attidude)
Sir if you're gay, we can't be friends. That's it, I'm a homophobe..
I doubt many people would want to be friends with you then.
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attidude
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#75
(Original post by Eboracum7)
I doubt many people would want to be friends with you then.
enough to make me a happy man with happy life, you can have Elton Johnny
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Retired_Messiah
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#76
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#76
It should be an option for people who are genuinely distressed by being gay, e.g for religious reasons. It should never be forced on anybody and homosexuality in itself shouldn't be treated as some sort of disease that needs to be cured.

The issue is I don't recall any story where gay conversion has actually worked, ever. It'd probably take a good few failed attempts before it ever actually did anything useful. Which is a bit problematic. So while it's ok that it's not illegal, the US government shouldn't be fundingit as it'd likely be a case of ruining a bunch of dudes' heads so a minority of religious nuts can actually live with themselves.

(Original post by vexd)
Mike Pence also wanted to cut US funding into HIV treatment groups that supported homosexuality and direct that money into the "gay cure", what an idol
Oh dear.
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Evecob
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#77
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#77
Gay conversion therapy usually involves incredibly brutal methods in order to 'fix' a person's sexuality. Scientifically, you can't just change yourself and become straight. You can trick yourself into thinking that you are, but fundamentally it doesn't work.

Conversion therapy is often violent- I've heard stories of people being forced to have 'straight' sex, being tortured while watching gay porn, and generally having to undergo horrific 'treatment' which simply does not work, except to warp the person's brain in such a way that they are traumatised and terrified of being gay.

tl;dr conversion therapy is awful, causes mental and physical pain and is a load of bull.
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Eboracum7
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#78
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#78
(Original post by attidude)
enough to make me a happy man with happy life, you can have Elton Johnny
Na, you're clearly just a bigoted troll. You have no reason to hate gay people, that's illogical. You're clearly not happy if you hate something, so you must be insecure?
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ThatOldGuy
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#79
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(Original post by Eboracum7)
Arguably, smoking shouldn't exist. It probably wouldn't if it wasn't for addictive and social factors, just like gay conversion therapy wouldn't exist if it wasn't for social factors. The problem with your comparison is that smoking is just a habit while a person's sexuality isn't.
But it does exist and is legal. I'm not even certain why you would bring up that smoking is a habit and a person's sexuality isn't.

That's actually a very grey area: You would be hard pressed to point to a 'Gay gene'(And probably wouldn't want to, as it would indicate it would be something that could be 'obliterated' and 'cured'.), but I could certainly point you to research that suggests smoking tends towards being an inherited trait.

Ultimately, with adults, it's best to just let people do what they want if it doesn't hurt anybody else. Smoking, due to second-hand effects, actually has worse consequences to other people than gay conversion therapy.
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Eboracum7
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(Original post by ThatOldGuy)
But it does exist and is legal. I'm not even certain why you would bring up that smoking is a habit and a person's sexuality isn't.

That's actually a very grey area: You would be hard pressed to point to a 'Gay gene'(And probably wouldn't want to, as it would indicate it would be something that could be 'obliterated' and 'cured'.), but I could certainly point you to research that suggests smoking tends towards being an inherited trait.

Ultimately, with adults, it's best to just let people do what they want if it doesn't hurt anybody else. Smoking, due to second-hand effects, actually has worse consequences to other people than gay conversion therapy.
Because comparing the two doesn't make much sense.

It's not a very grey area. There is plenty of research and scientific consensus pointing to homosexuality being caused by a combination of biological, hormonal, and environmental factors. It isn't as simple as a "gay gene". It is also widely seen to occur across nature; a large variety of animals display homosexuality.

So we should just let someone who wants to commit suicide go through with it? (Say they have no family or friends for arguments sake, but are otherwise healthy.) Doesn't it make more sense to resolve the issues behind why they want to commit suicide? Then they won't feel the need to do such a self-destructive thing. There is plenty of evidence to show gay conversion therapy does not help and is in fact harmful.

I agree with you on the smoking point, hence they should keep to designated smoking areas. Technically the ones carrying out the "therapy" are harming someone, even if the person asked for it, it's still harm.
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