Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by flump)
    Birmingham also has grammars, probably lower percentage than Kent.
    That's interesting.

    Both Birmingham and Kent fare very badly in these new value added considerations.

    It seems my point that academically selective systems impact negatively on secondary moderns has veracity. But then, many educational surveys have cited that where there are academically selective schools 'creaming off' the top quartile of ability range, there is marked polarity between the results of those grammars and the other secondary mods. It makes sense, yes?
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by flump)
    There can be good reasons, at a local grammar a girl had glandular fever and missed her exams and the school got 99% that year, everyone else got more than 5. I understand your point but statistics can be misleading.
    Oh, I agree that statistics can be misleading, certainly.

    Governments' manipulate statistics all the time to evidence whatever claims they wish to make.

    The girl with glandular fever? If she missed all her exams and was unable to take any, the board can award a grade based on all her past work. It could be that her work was not up to the expected standards regardless.

    One would expect schools which select their intake based on academic ability to surpass the benchmark of 5 A*-C grades that are set for the national average intake. If students who have been selected on ability can't pass English/Maths at grade C, in addition to three other subjects then there is something drastically wrong with the country's standards of education.

    Any thread about education always seems to end up with debate about grammars versus the rest. I wonder if we could continue this debate by looking at the figures without reference to the cohorts...no, not possible since one determines the other. : (
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I wish I went there instead of being grouped in with a bunch of low life losers as is your wish.
    You are making assumptions about me that are incorrect.

    I believe that students of comparable ability should be taught together in the classroom - although even then, teachers have to differentiate because there will be marked disparities in ability between those on the 98th centile and those on the 75th and the teacher is expected to provide challenge for the most able and aspiration to the less able in the group.

    However, I do not believe that to accomodate children of like ability means being educated in separate buildings.

    A truly comprehensive system is the most successful for all but 1-2% of student outcomes - according to research.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    My school is on there, what a surprise.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ElleRJ)
    I go to one of the schools on the list with a 27% pass rate. To be honest i have had a fantastic education and some of the the teachers are outstanding. The socio-economic problems are more to blame in my opinion. Some of the students in year 7 can barely write, meaning they are starting behind the start line with certain pupils. They only have a limited amount of time to correct these problems.
    Good thoughtful post
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yawn)
    Oh, I agree that statistics can be misleading, certainly.

    Governments' manipulate statistics all the time to evidence whatever claims they wish to make.

    The girl with glandular fever? If she missed all her exams and was unable to take any, the board can award a grade based on all her past work. It could be that her work was not up to the expected standards regardless.

    One would expect schools which select their intake based on academic ability to surpass the benchmark of 5 A*-C grades that are set for the national average intake. If students who have been selected on ability can't pass English/Maths at grade C, in addition to three other subjects then there is something drastically wrong with the country's standards of education.

    Any thread about education always seems to end up with debate about grammars versus the rest. I wonder if we could continue this debate by looking at the figures without reference to the cohorts...no, not possible since one determines the other. : (
    I don't know why she didn't get grades, I do know the following year she got excellent results, followed by excellent A levels and is at university now.

    I would also expect selective schools to get most, if not all, of their pupils through more than 5 A to C's. I haven't looked at the statistics but I assume most do, don't they?

    Weren't you the one who brought selective schools into the debate? I believe you said, "Kent Local Authority has the most.

    Over a third of its school are classed as 'failing' using the bench mark of 5 passes including English and Maths.

    A damning indictment of a wholly academically selective system of education."
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by flump)
    I don't know why she didn't get grades, I do know the following year she got excellent results, followed by excellent A levels and is at university now.

    I would also expect selective schools to get most, if not all, of their pupils through more than 5 A to C's. I haven't looked at the statistics but I assume most do, don't they?
    In Kent (the largest wholly selective LA) only two or three out of thirty three grammars tend to get all of their cohort achieving the benchmark of 5A* - C grades each year.

    Weren't you the one who brought selective schools into the debate? I believe you said, "Kent Local Authority has the most.
    Yes...your point being..?



    Over a third of its school are classed as 'failing' using the bench mark of 5 passes including English and Maths.

    A damning indictment of a wholly academically selective system of education."
    Do you consider then that those statistics indicate that Kent's schools are more successful than other LA's that aren't wholly selective?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yawn)



    Yes...your point being..?
    You made a comment about any thread about education ending up in a debate about selective education. I was pointing out that you were the one who brought that in to it so it seemed strange for you to comment on it.




    [/QUOTE]
    Do you consider then that those statistics indicate that Kent's schools are more successful than other LA's that aren't wholly selective?[/QUOTE]

    I wasn't making any judgement on that, I was illustrating that you were the person who brought selective education into the debate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    To be fair, I don't think it was Yawn who brought it up first. A few people were using these statistics to bolster their support for grammar schools, check pg1&2.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by Sophistress)
    To be fair, I don't think it was Yawn who brought it up first. A few people were using these statistics to bolster their support for grammar schools, check pg1&2.
    Thank you, Sophistress...you are quite correct. The first one to raise the subject of grammar schools was Chardonnay on page one, closely followed by others on page two.

    I've come to expect flump to challenge me on certain subjects. She never fails to do so, do you flump?

    Now flump, if you look carefully as my post where I mentioned academically selective education you will see the reason I referred to it.

    (Original post by yawn)
    Any thread about education always seems to end up with debate about grammars versus the rest. I wonder if we could continue this debate by looking at the figures without reference to the cohorts...no, not possible since one determines the other. : (
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    lol!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yawn)
    Thank you, Sophistress...you are quite correct. The first one to raise the subject of grammar schools was Chardonnay on page one, closely followed by others on page two.

    I've come to expect flump to challenge me on certain subjects. She never fails to do so, do you flump?

    Now flump, if you look carefully as my post where I mentioned academically selective education you will see the reason I referred to it.
    To be fair Chardonnay just said she supported them, but I missed it.

    You are very defensive Yawm, I wonder why? Actually we have agreed before now on faith based schools and abortion. But hey, why let the truth interfere with a good story.

    Edit: We were both posting on a thread about £75 flats for council tenants. Can you see where I challenged you? No didn't think so.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    29% - i'm surprised my school got that much!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by trance addict)
    Yeah, birmingham,sandwell, walsall are close to a lot of very very good schools. Sandwell isn't the most enriched borough either so the comps get the left over kids + those who are smart yet weren't lucky enough to make the cut to get into a grammar/private.
    Lol, I come from one of those areas and the schools with good results (nearly all grammer plus a few private) have something like over 90% pass rate whilst the rest have under 50%. I've noticed that many of the grammer school children don't actually live very close to their school.

    Anyway, I hope the plan works. The bit about raising the ambitions of these kids is good.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Imported)
    Anyway, I hope the plan works. The bit about raising the ambitions of these kids is good.
    It's hard though. I often think I shouldn't even aspire to go to a top uni because of my **** school...

    Then again i've secured a place at a college with some of the best a level results in the country (1000+ ucas point score) and broken out of the crapness of terrible schools so maybe..
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by trance addict)
    It's hard though. I often think I shouldn't even aspire to go to a top uni because of my **** school...


    Then again i've secured a place at a college with some of the best a level results in the country (1000+ ucas point score) and broken out of the crapness of terrible schools so maybe..
    Explain some more??

    I think we shouldn't lay the blame at the school all the time. Yes, some of them do lack resources and might have crap teachers but that is not confined to only bog-standard comprehansive schools. A lot of it is down to the aspirations students have. If you're used to seeing failure then chances are you'll folllow the same path, though not always.

    I know many in my school would have performed much better if you had placed them in a grammer school because they would have looked at education in a new way and not be proud in failing it.

    Although, I hate the exams in this country. GCSE and A-levels have too many flaws and you get some really really really really thick kids passing just because they find themselves in a grammer school and mummy and daddy have bought a tutor. Just because someone can memorise a friggin textbook and write the same thing on a exam paper does not make them smart. I've known too many stupid students who have passed yet still wouldn't know much about the subject they've scored an A* in. End of rant.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Imported)
    Explain some more??

    I think we shouldn't lay the blame at the school all the time. Yes, some of them do lack resources and might have crap teachers but that is not confined to only bog-standard comprehansive schools. A lot of it is down to the aspirations students have. If you're used to seeing failure then chances are you'll folllow the same path, though not always.

    I know many in my school would have performed much better if you had placed them in a grammer school because they would have looked at education in a new way and not be proud in failing it.

    Although, I hate the exams in this country. GCSE and A-levels have too many flaws and you get some really really really really thick kids passing just because they find themselves in a grammer school and mummy and daddy have bought a tutor. Just because someone can memorise a friggin textbook and write the same thing on a exam paper does not make them smart. I've known too many stupid students who have passed yet still wouldn't know much about the subject they've scored an A* in. End of rant.

    Basically what i've thought is I am bright, I should have made it through the 11 + (I had no tutoring for it) I SHOULD have got into a grammar school :\

    When I look at some of the kids from my school I end up thinking, "How am I going to get into a top 10 uni after going to this place?"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by trance addict)
    Basically what i've thought is I am bright, I should have made it through the 11 + (I had no tutoring for it) I SHOULD have got into a grammar school :\

    When I look at some of the kids from my school I end up thinking, "How am I going to get into a top 10 uni after going to this place?"
    Which grammer school did you apply for? Somewhere in the West Midlands??

    Don't worry about other people. If you are good enough, you'll get in.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Imported)
    Which grammer school did you apply for? Somewhere in the West Midlands??

    Don't worry about other people. If you are good enough, you'll get in.
    Yeah.

    Other people will always have the better grades though, the school has already put me at a bit of a disadvantage.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by flump)
    To be fair Chardonnay just said she supported them, but I missed it.
    It was not just Chardonnay who commented about grammar school (so it seems you missed more posts in your eagerness to latch onto mine) and he is as much pro-grammar as I am anti...so that 'fairness' you extend to him should also be extended to me, yes?

    You are very defensive Yawm, I wonder why? Actually we have agreed before now on faith based schools and abortion. But hey, why let the truth interfere with a good story.
    I'm not at all defensive, flump. You do tend to make assumptions based on a cursory reading of my post's contents (I wonder why)...and agreement is reached only after closer scrutiny of what I am actually saying...as illustrated here:

    Originally Posted by yawn
    Any thread about education always seems to end up with debate about grammars versus the rest. I wonder if we could continue this debate by looking at the figures without reference to the cohorts...no, not possible since one determines the other. : (
    Do you have further comment to make on this? Or shall we leave it here?

    Now, getting back to the thread proper: Kent has said they have plans to turn-around these thirty three failing schools within the next year or two. They haven't said what strategies they are going to adopt to ensure this happens but I hope that the improvements are real for each and every student at these schools rather than statistical.
 
 
 
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.