The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2009 Watch

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Paulwhy
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#61
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#61
The spreadsheet sheet 3 now has the modal groups highlighted.
Again nicely only the top 5 unis have a (sole) modal group of 480-519 or above.

AAA (360 points)
Cambridge M** E**p 600+
Oxford # M**p 600+
LSE M** 480-519
Durham M* 400-439,480-519
UCL M**A 520-559
Nottingham (or AABB) M**pE**p 400-439

AAB (340 points)
Warwick (+b in fourth AS) M**480-519
Bristol M**440-479
York M**p 400-439
Bath M**E**p 440-479
St Andrews 440-479
Leeds 400-439
Southampton (or ABBb) M*c 360-399,400-439
Exeter M**p 360-399
Manchester (BSc) M** E**p 360-399
SOAS 320-359,360-399
Attached files
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TSRreader
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#62
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I still can't understand Edinburgh's peculiarity from these spreadsheets. Since the data don't have the exact tariff so I can't actually calculate any average. But I done a relative comparison of Edinburgh's class structure with St Andrew's. From the class distribution, I can be safe to assume St Andrew have much higher average tariff than Edinburgh. But according to Time's, it's the opposite. I am wondering if Unistats is a reliable source.
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prospectivEEconomist
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#63
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For starters unistats uses very old data, and I doubt the stats are particularly correct since its such a large database and very hard to keep it up to date.
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#64
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(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
For starters unistats uses very old data, and I doubt the stats are particularly correct since its such a large database and very hard to keep it up to date.
When was the last time it update the stats?
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prospectivEEconomist
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#65
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06/07 i think
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Paulwhy
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#66
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(Original post by TSRreader)
I still can't understand Edinburgh's peculiarity from these spreadsheets. Since the data don't have the exact tariff so I can't actually calculate any average. But I done a relative comparison of Edinburgh's class structure with St Andrew's. From the class distribution, I can be safe to assume St Andrew have much higher average tariff than Edinburgh. But according to Time's, it's the opposite. I am wondering if Unistats is a reliable source.
Well the exact unistat mean figures are on column I of sheet 1:
Unistat Times
Edinburgh 460 442
St Andrews 470 430

Times is 2006/7
Unistat is 2005/6
according to the FAQ:
What year does the information relate to? The information from the National Student Survey relates to the survey that took place earlier this year i.e. 2007. Generally, the data from HESA (Higher Education Statistics Agency) relates to the academic year that started in 2005 and ended in 2006. However, in the continuation sub-set of data, the 'dormant' section relates to the academic year that started in 2004 and ended in 2005.

HESA is the same source as used by the league tables, so unistats is equally valid.
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prospectivEEconomist
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#67
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
Well the exact unistat mean figures are on column I of sheet 1:
Unistat Times
Edinburgh 460 442
St Andrews 470 430

Times is 2006/7
Unistat is 2005/6
according to the FAQ:
What year does the information relate to? The information from the National Student Survey relates to the survey that took place earlier this year i.e. 2007. Generally, the data from HESA (Higher Education Statistics Agency) relates to the academic year that started in 2005 and ended in 2006. However, in the continuation sub-set of data, the 'dormant' section relates to the academic year that started in 2004 and ended in 2005.

HESA is the same source as used by the league tables, so unistats is equally valid.
things have changed a lot since 2005...obviously the top 5 remain the same but other uni's might have improved/got worse
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prospectivEEconomist
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#68
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
Times 66
UCAS L100 58
This thread 60

So I am not sure where 25 comes from..
SORRY...I didn't count the number of universities, just guessed lol. Please don't get mad
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TSRreader
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Paulwhy)
Well the exact unistat mean figures are on column I of sheet 1:
Unistat Times
Edinburgh 460 442
St Andrews 470 430
Wow, St Andrews dropped 40 tariff in less than two years :eek:
Does these things happen often? Or is it simply because Prince William left the university?
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Paulwhy
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#70
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(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
For starters unistats uses very old data, and I doubt the stats are particularly correct since its such a large database and very hard to keep it up to date.
Well unistats is only an extra year old. And the mean figures are very similar for most of the unis. So that is consistent with the details being similar for the 2 years.

The size of the database should not effect the accuracy of the figures.
i.e. the transfer program will just take longer!
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Paulwhy
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#71
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(Original post by TSRreader)
Wow, St Andrews dropped 40 tariff in less than two years :eek:
Does these things happen often? Or is it simply because Prince William left the university?
Well it is 1 year. Unistat is 2005/6 and Times is 2006/7
Is suspect it is just down to their being more English and less Scottish students in 2006/7
i.e. the tariff rating of typical Highers qualifications is higher than that of typical A-level qualifications.
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Paulwhy
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#72
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(Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
things have changed a lot since 2005...obviously the top 5 remain the same but other uni's might have improved/got worse
That is why it is good that both series give mean figures as a robustness check!

It is good that unistat gives us figures from a different year as we now have more data and have chance of finding potential trends. Ok 2 years is not a long series but much chance of finding trends than with only 1 year!
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TSRreader
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#73
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I thought Higher is near AS-level, so why does UCAS favor them over A2?
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Paulwhy
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#74
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(Original post by TSRreader)
I thought Higher is near AS-level, so why does UCAS favor them over A2?
Not sure I have any more idea than anyone else why the offical UCAS tariffs over value IB and Highers compared with AS and A-levels. But they do.
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Paulwhy
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#75
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#75
Any suggestions of a new name for this thread?
"Economics Entry Requirements 2009" maybe?
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Paulwhy
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#76
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#76
I have now put some more sub-headings in the table.
i.e. part from that unis are in same order.

So:
i)the Top 3 AAA unis are listed seperately. The top 5 econ unis are widely agreed on (LSE, Cambridge/Oxford,UCL/Warwick). And for me the 1st 3 are a step above the next 2 in terms of International Reputation (LSE for econ, and Oxbridge for all subjects).
ii)The AAB unis that give offers involving ABB are split from the rest of the AAB unis.
iii)The Clearing 2007 ABB unis are seperated out. (These are also the clearing 2008 unis plus a uni(RH) that gives BBB offers to A-level Maths applicants).

Clearly all these boundaries are both fluid and dynamic and there is the risk that causal reader may get an impression that is more precise than it is accurate. But I think making this change is helpful as previously the table risked giving the impression that all AAB were alike, all ABB were alike and that there was a big gap between them. Now it shows correctly that there is a smoother transition. Of course one can always argue whether individually unis are in the correct categories. And I am sorry if you feel that a particular uni has been unfairly represented.
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TSRreader
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#77
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
I have now put some more sub-headings in the table.
i.e. part from that unis are in same order.

So:
i)the Top 3 AAA unis are listed seperately. The top 5 econ unis are widely agreed on (LSE, Cambridge/Oxford,UCL/Warwick). And for me the 1st 3 are a step above the next 2 in terms of International Reputation (LSE for econ, and Oxbridge for all subjects).
ii)The AAB unis that give offers involving ABB are split from the rest of the AAB unis.
iii)The Clearing 2007 ABB unis are seperated out. (These are also the clearing 2008 unis plus a uni(RH) that gives BBB offers to A-level Maths applicants).

Clearly all these boundaries are both fluid and dynamic and there is the risk that causal reader may get an impression that is more precise than it is accurate. But I think making this change is helpful as previously the table risked giving the impression that all AAB were alike, all ABB were alike and that there was a big gap between them. Now it shows correctly that there is a smoother transition. Of course one can always argue whether individually unis are in the correct categories. And I am sorry if you feel that a particular uni has been unfairly represented.
Why not correspond each universities' average tariff to the respective class? That way a student may have a better idea which universities are more competitive rather than misled by grade requirements offered by universities that doesn't correspond to their actual average tariff.
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Paulwhy
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#78
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(Original post by TSRreader)
Why not correspond each universities' average tariff to the respective class? That way a student may have a better idea which universities are more competitive rather than misled by grade requirements offered by universities that doesn't correspond to their actual average tariff.
I am not sure I understand what you mean.
e.g. The table already gives the average points of 1st year economics students for each uni for 06/07.
and the uni are sorted in that order.

When you say class do you mean degree class? Because I don't have that information.
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TSRreader
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#79
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
I am not sure I understand what you mean.
e.g. The table already gives the average points of 1st year economics students for each uni for 06/07.
and the uni are sorted in that order.

When you say class do you mean degree class? Because I don't have that information.
By class I mean the category for grades. Instead of listing the given grades by universities' web prospectus, maybe you should replace them with an estimate of the actual grade combination of accepted applicants from the average entry tariffs.
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Paulwhy
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#80
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#80
(Original post by TSRreader)
By class I mean the category for grades. Instead of listing the given grades by universities' web prospectus, maybe you should replace them with an estimate of the actual grade combination of accepted applicants from the average entry tariffs.
I think if I was to give grades estimates rather than points that certainly would result in precision rather than accuracy.
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