intellectual snobbery? Watch

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butterfly_girl_5
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#61
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#61
(Original post by madima)
look, little girl... you like using words others don't understand. i wouldn't be surprised if all your friends carried mini dictionaries in their back pockets.
what? I dont think ive said anything at any point in this thread to suggest I often or ever use difficult words others dont understand- I use them myself- that doesnt mean I use them with other people all the time regardless of whether Im boring them or not- if I didnt ask my friends about things Im interested and find out that interested isnt shared how could I know their not interested, or that there is this problem?

youre just completely overreacting- youre not even answering my question- what was the whole 'god damn book' about??
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Davetherave
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#62
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
what? I dont think ive said anything at any point in this thread to suggest I often or ever use difficult words others dont understand- I use them myself- that doesnt mean I use them with other people all the time regardless of whether Im boring them or not- if I didnt ask my friends about things Im interested and find out that interested isnt shared how could I know their not interested, or that there is this problem?

youre just completely overreacting- youre not even answering my question- what was the whole 'god damn book' about??
I think it was a general criticism of the way academia tends to over-intellectualise and over-analyse something that is essentially just a story someone somewhere dreamt up.
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llys
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#63
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#63
I could understand if someone who doesn't know you so well would react oddly to you talking oddly but I would think your friends [= people who have known you for a long time, probably know you quite well & probably like you to some extent] shouldn't mind/just fondly consider it a "quirk". At least that's what I think about my oddly talking friends.

That they react the way they do suggests to me that to them this "confirms" something about your personality that they already suspected all along. So yes, they probably do consider you quite arrogant and probably think they have reason to. If that's not true then I would advise you to find "friends" who are a bit more tolerant.

I don't know you, but for the sake of this post I will assume you aren't arrogant. My advice is:
1) Just pay attention, you don't have to be insensitive. Why do you talk about critical theory to someone if you know they are not interested? Clearly that only provokes them to think you want to show off your "intellect"?
2) Don't take yourself too seriously. If you can laugh about yourself, your life (and your friends) will be much more relaxed/funnier.
3) At 18 your personality is by no means fully developed, so just relax a little, pay attention and make sure you don't become something you don't want to become.
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Glutamic Acid
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Loser222)
I bet your accused of it. You use too many long words and people prefer short ones. "intellectual" should be "smart" , "literature" should be "books" People don't want to read something tht is long and boring. People want to read oay magazine and fun stuff like that instead of listening to someone drone on about a books theme and the characters. Its just a bloody book! you don't have to analyse every god dam word.
Shut up you great big idiot. Although it's not surprising you have problems with words over two syllables long when you've yet to learn the different between "you're" and "your". "Intellectual" does not mean the same as "smart", and "literature" does not mean the same as "books". Some people don't want to read Okay magazine. Is it possible for someone whose mental growth is as stunted as yours to comprehend that people have different interests?
Sirocco11
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#65
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
just to clarify- I think some people are saying I shove my intellect in peoples faces because they thought I meant I like using 'clever words'

my point is I dont, because if I do ever talk about 'academic' things- just because im interested, I quickly stop because I notice people yawning and going cross eyed- and I dont want to bore them.

so what Im asking is- if I have that experience, I think that means that they are just not really into that kind of thing- which is fine- but what irritates me is that some people seem to want to have it both ways- they react as I said, but then if I insinuate that they are not interested in academia and I am, they feel hurt or feel made to feel stupid or say they are.
do you think that im right to say theyre not interested? since there isnt anything wrong with that- or is the question of 'interest in academia' too much tied up in the fact you do need to be clever to have it/ or that I or academics generally make people feel stupid and excluded.

thankyou to all who answered- but saying things like 'the fact of the matter is, a lot of oxbridge academics are arrogant'- can you say why/what made you think that?
Jeez that's convoluted. To be blunt, it appears that you're a little too absorbed in your own intellect to really consider that you're being so condescending in the first place towards other people. You're probably not far off the mark to say they're not interested, but at the same time you mark those out that don't share your interest as, well, inferiors, although you don't realise it. Maybe they just find it tiring to engage with you if all you talk about is within the field of academia; some people simply want to converse outside of academic discussion once in a while. As other people have said, language is important, if you start speaking within obscure lexica most people will either consider you pretentious or aloof, and will feel isolated as a result. Intellect intimidates. I don't mean to berate you, but that's just the impression that you give off.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Davetherave)
I think it was a general criticism of the way academia tends to over-intellectualise and over-analyse something that is essentially just a story someone somewhere dreamt up.
but thats the thing- In my experience thats not true at all- I always used to wonder if that was the case. until very recently I couldnt reconcile literary analysis with genuinely enjoying the book- but Ive come to reconcile them without realising it- i didnt try to- it developped naturally (with the help of my teachers). if literature was just a story someone made up it wouldnt be worth bothering about- hollyoaks is a story someone made up- that doesnt make it literature

if it was a general criticism, she shouldnt has just said so
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p.stick
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#67
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Blame the media. It's full of people who think it is cool to be bad at maths and disregard The Times for The Sun.

Using long word is not a problem, if you find it easier in expressing yourself.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#68
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#68
(Original post by llys)

I don't know you, but for the sake of this post I will assume you aren't arrogant. My advice is:
1) Just pay attention, you don't have to be insensitive. Why do you talk about critical theory to someone if you know they are not interested? Clearly that only provokes them to think you want to show off your "intellect"?
2) Don't take yourself too seriously. If you can laugh about yourself, your life (and your friends) will be much more relaxed/funnier.
3) At 18 your personality is by no means fully developed, so just relax a little, pay attention and make sure you don't become something you don't want to become.
thanks
1) I think i havent explained very clearly- everyone is saying this. I dont- thats the whole point. If I mention the word- I stop there because people dont care.
2)&3) I think youre right- but I dont really see how that comes into whether I am right in saying if people dont want to talk about critical theory with me theyre not interested in critical theory ect
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butterfly_girl_5
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Glutamic Acid)
Shut up you great big idiot. Although it's not surprising you have problems with words over two syllables long when you've yet to learn the different between "you're" and "your". "Intellectual" does not mean the same as "smart", and "literature" does not mean the same as "books". Some people don't want to read Okay magazine. Is it possible for someone whose mental growth is as stunted as yours to comprehend that people have different interests?
to be fair I dont think that was his opinion
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Davetherave
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#70
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
but thats the thing- In my experience thats not true at all- I always used to wonder if that was the case. until very recently I couldnt reconcile literary analysis with genuinely enjoying the book- but Ive come to reconcile them without realising it- i didnt try to- it developped naturally (with the help of my teachers). if literature was just a story someone made up it wouldnt be worth bothering about- hollyoaks is a story someone made up- that doesnt make it literature

if it was a general criticism, she shouldnt has just said so
Well without really wanting to be drawn into this debate, I do not actually see a fundamental difference between Hollyoaks and "great" literature, other than a subjective judgement of quality. In the end someone sat down and penned a story in both cases. A lot of people do think that literature is not something worth bothering about in an academic setting (not sure yet whether I'm one of them).
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JC.
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#71
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(Original post by Loser222)
I bet your accused of it. You use too many long words and people prefer short ones. "intellectual" should be "smart" , "literature" should be "books" People don't want to read something tht is long and boring. People want to read oay magazine and fun stuff like that instead of listening to someone drone on about a books theme and the characters. Its just a bloody book! you don't have to analyse every god dam word.
Okay magazine?

Somehow your Moniker seems very apt...
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Vjyrik
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Glutamic Acid)
Shut up you great big idiot. Although it's not surprising you have problems with words over two syllables long when you've yet to learn the different between "you're" and "your". "Intellectual" does not mean the same as "smart", and "literature" does not mean the same as "books". Some people don't want to read Okay magazine. Is it possible for someone whose mental growth is as stunted as yours to comprehend that people have different interests?
Whoohoooooooo!!!


Nice post, Glutamic Acid!
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butterfly_girl_5
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Sirocco11)
Jeez that's convoluted. To be blunt, it appears that you're a little too absorbed in your own intellect to really consider that you're being so condescending in the first place towards other people. You're probably not far off the mark to say they're not interested, but at the same time you mark those out that don't share your interest as, well, inferiors, although you don't realise it. Maybe they just find it tiring to engage with you if all you talk about is within the field of academia; some people simply want to converse outside of academic discussion once in a while. As other people have said, language is important, if you start speaking within obscure lexica most people will either consider you pretentious or aloof, and will feel isolated as a result. Intellect intimidates. I don't mean to berate you, but that's just the impression that you give off.
I appreciate you being blunt- but I dont think im losing out with those friends- their not inferiors, they just dont share that particular interest- I talk to them about everything else- I dont always talk about intellectual things despite the fact theyre not interested at all- I dont know where youre getting that from.
I dont use literary terms with any of my friends- I wish I had friends who wanted to- but since I dont, I dont use speicialised words even I only know because I looked them up (for A-level). I would only talk to people about what they are already interested in.

I would be interested to know what you think- why do my friends who dont want to here me drone about academia in complicated language (as you said) then object when I say or insinuate that theyre not interested in academia?
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llys
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#74
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
I would be interested to know what you think- why do my friends who dont want to here me drone about academia in complicated language (as you said) then object when I say or insinuate that theyre not interested in academia?
Because it's rude? :p: It may also not be true; they may just not be comfortable discussing literature on such a level yet.

BTW I was already confused by that in your first post - what do you consider "academia"?
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chad_ch
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#75
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#75
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
What if what you want to say is best expressed with complex syntax or the exact word that fits what you want to say happens to be long?
I think theres a difference between people deliberately trying to use what you said, and people who are only interested in trying to give accurate expression to their ideas or feelings
but the point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to use the "best" way of expressing yourself. just take david cameron. he is a bloody clever man, thats clear for all to see but then he writes articles like this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4258140.ece

he writes like an illiterate man to get his point across to the masses and frabkly, it works. also, Emma is rubbish, awful book. I read it for English Lit and it was god awful. if you talked to me about, I'd walk away no matter how elequountly you talked about it. :-)

and take solace in one thought: if you were really clever, you'd be doing a science.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Davetherave)
Well without really wanting to be drawn into this debate, I do not actually see a fundamental difference between Hollyoaks and "great" literature, other than a subjective judgement of quality. In the end someone sat down and penned a story in both cases. A lot of people do think that literature is not something worth bothering about in an academic setting (not sure yet whether I'm one of them).
(you dont have to answer this)

thats a good point. there is no 'right' answer as to what constitutes literature, but its generally that programmes like hollyoaks simply want to entertain to make money from ratings- theres no idea about what feeling or experience theyre trying to express and how their trying to do it
my experience is that programmes like hollyoaks are fun at first- but if (hypothetically) you studied them there wouldnt be much to them and the narrative and characterisation doesnt work- and if you got to know the episodes in detail they would become boring and empty for that reason
with eg Milton's Paradise Lost- if you study it you can recognise that he uses christian theology, classical mythology, epic form ect- thats quite concrete- and he consciously uses them- whether or not it makes the poem interesting or worth reading is another matter- you can very validly say- Hollyoaks more is better than Milton because I enjoy Hollyoaks- and no amount of clever intellectual words can tell youre wrong if thats how you feel
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chad_ch
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#77
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#77
(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
I appreciate you being blunt- but I dont think im losing out with those friends- their not inferiors, they just dont share that particular interest- I talk to them about everything else- I dont always talk about intellectual things despite the fact theyre not interested at all- I dont know where youre getting that from.
I dont use literary terms with any of my friends- I wish I had friends who wanted to- but since I dont, I dont use speicialised words even I only know because I looked them up (for A-level). I would only talk to people about what they are already interested in.

I would be interested to know what you think- why do my friends who dont want to here me drone about academia in complicated language (as you said) then object when I say or insinuate that theyre not interested in academia?
I know where you're coming from here as I'm a passionate scientist and when I tried to explain to my gf why the fireworks were glowing in different colours on Guy Fawkes night, she told me to shut up (she's a Classics student). The fact is people have different interests and I don't think people have a real problem with what you're saying, just the subject. can you not join a cook club or something?
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chantilly
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I don't really understand the problem. Do you feel frustrated that you can't communicate with others?

I understand that you are an English student but I find it very hard to understand what you say or the point you are trying to make
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chad_ch
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#79
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book sorry
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chad_ch
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#80
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(Original post by chantilly)
I don't really understand the problem. Do you feel frustrated that you can't communicate with others?

I understand that you are an English student but I find it very hard to understand what you say or the point you are trying to make
the ultimate irony.
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