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    (Original post by vienna95)
    my obesession is with students who have some stereotyped ideology imprinted in their head after reading a left-wing author from the reading list. there is clear difference. i happen to respect alot of liberal views.
    It's only temporary - most left-wingers grow out of it and become sensible tories.
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    (Original post by Mr White)
    It's only temporary - most left-wingers grow out of it and become sensible tories.
    well thats a common belief.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    well thats a common belief.
    But a grown-up one.
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    (Original post by Mr White)
    But a grown-up one.
    Sasha wants to know if you are Russian
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    (Original post by TIGTIG)
    Sasha wants to know if you are Russian
    dont ask..
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    dont ask..
    Don't tell?
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    (Original post by Mr White)
    Don't tell?
    Hey why do you ignore me?осел
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    (Original post by TIGTIG)
    Hey why do you ignore me?осел
    Sorry, I was elsewhere. In answer to your question: I was born in Latvia, spent 6 years in St Petersburg before moving back to Latvia and living there for 3 years. After that emigrated to England.
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    (Original post by Mr White)
    Sorry, I was elsewhere. In answer to your question: I was born in Latvia, spent 6 years in St Petersburg before moving back to Latvia and living there for 3 years. After that emigrated to England.
    Hey could you please talk to my friend Sasha please she has moved from Russia to LONDON you might know her.She hates London a misses her culture so I thought maybeyou could talk to her you have both immegrated to england so you should have something in common.Sashas on the russian thread
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    yeah it was childs play three i think that film those 10 yr olds watched and then killed jamie bulger , its obvious that the media influneces our actions but not in all cases , as we become desenctised to violence
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    (Original post by Eámanë)
    yeah it was childs play three i think that film those 10 yr olds watched and then killed jamie bulger , its obvious that the media influneces our actions but not in all cases , as we become desenctised to violence
    Please not again - just because you heard something doesn't make it true. Have you read the factual reports of the court procedings? Have you read the testimony given by the psychiatrist referred to? Have you even glanced over the evidence presented by both sides?

    Or have you just got a vague memory about something you read in the sun or heard on the news (which was reporting something speculated about in a few papers)?

    Please don't perpetuate unsubstantiated rumours - the case is tragic enough without people sensationalising it.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it manifested over 20+years and it effected every corner of popular society. although, you are discrimination on class and colour, where i dont really see the need,point or ability.



    ahhh, outcomes the 1st year politic student again, fresh from another left-wing author...youve buried the point under so much left-wing socialist babble even a hardened forumite such as myself is having trouble to stay with you here.
    i do not think waht the unreg poster said was left wing socialist babble. sounds more plausible than your opinions on the influence of the 60s on anti-socail behaviour. viena do you ever encounter this sort of behaviour? ever you did, i dnot think you would hold the view oyu do. though maybe we are talking about different types of anti-social behaviour.
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    (Original post by kebab22)
    i do not think waht the unreg poster said was left wing socialist babble. sounds more plausible than your opinions on the influence of the 60s on anti-socail behaviour. viena do you ever encounter this sort of behaviour? ever you did, i dnot think you would hold the view oyu do. though maybe we are talking about different types of anti-social behaviour.

    "Drug addiction, unemployment, low levels of education seem to me to be the distinctive things about these areas along side the awful state of the homes themselves. For me the Thatcher's reign is a far more obvious cause of these state of affairs. A growth in the gap between richest and poorest, and the dog-eat-dog mentatlity, springing from right-wing neo libeberalism as opposed to leftist political though as you stipulate, instilled in many of today's most brutalized groups in society. The anti-social behaviour is a manefestation of gross inequalities"

    we are talking about anti-social behaviour based on a much broader concept. while i accept their point, they severely narrowed the original idea of manners and social respect to tirade about Thatcher and didnt even do it well. barely raising a clear point,they skirt around neo-liberalism and brutalised groups in society, without stopping to clarify at these junctures or even correct their spelling.
    that i call left wing babble.
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    .

    "however, it is the self-centered attitude to pursue your own feelings and let them be known to everyone else, as if everyone is actually interested, that is the main consequence of a narcissitic attitude that developed in the 60s-70s and took hold throughout the 80s. the children of the 80s are todays young adults, the social group among which this attitude is most visible. encroaching on other peoples liberties is seen as the virtue of a strong willed person and not the failing of an ill-mannered yob"

    this was your initial post which unreg replied to. this is first class babble. gross overs simplifications adn generalizations based on extremely dodgy links. the narccistic attitude you talk of was probably not as wide spread at this time as you thought anyway. you do possibly have a very stereotypical picture of the 60s. also what exactly do you mean by encroaching on peoples liberties? Maybe ive misinterpreted your point, but comments like that seems to suggest that it is a political choice to be anti-social, some sort of cognitive process. It is on this point I am maybe at my most militantly left wing, ideas of social alienation and a materialist idea of social conciousness would be interesting to go into on this issue.

    if you meet a deprived young person in the street who say has dropped out of school at an early age and spends most of his time moping on the streets, the behavior he will exhibit cannot be associated to some sort of reflective process by which he decides to impose his will on other people. have you ever met anyone so angry and bitter, so deeply hostile to your ways of being and thinking that you find it difficult to relate, they of course do not even attempt to relate. this is the basis for real anti-social behavior, behavior that is highly self-destructive. most politicians, except maybe the oldest and most traditional of true blue conservatives, accept that anti-social behavior is prevalent in more economically deprived sectors of society and is not a concept used to apply to some sort of idea of a return to the good old fashioned gentlemanly way of the early 20th century.

    i concede that there maybe those in our society, myself included who have a way of being in public quite different to pre-60s behavior. it can i suppose be linked to a more permissive society where young people feel freer to act as they choose without the restraint of common etiquette this can at times border on to anti-social behavior. say when your pissed on your way home and you sing loudly, shout, be stupid - yeah that is anti-social, but also excusable as long as you don't hurt anyone, its definitely not what eats away at society. it is not what causes violence, heavy drug abuse, robbery etc. these things are desperate acts not related to your conception of the student movement in the 60s.


    i dont really want to talk about it anymore because for a really very intelligient person, this idea you advocate is simply stupid.
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    (Original post by kebab22)
    .

    "however, it is the self-centered attitude to pursue your own feelings and let them be known to everyone else, as if everyone is actually interested, that is the main consequence of a narcissitic attitude that developed in the 60s-70s and took hold throughout the 80s. the children of the 80s are todays young adults, the social group among which this attitude is most visible. encroaching on other peoples liberties is seen as the virtue of a strong willed person and not the failing of an ill-mannered yob"

    this was your initial post which unreg replied to. this is first class babble. gross overs simplifications adn generalizations based on extremely dodgy links. the narccistic attitude you talk of was probably not as wide spread at this time as you thought anyway. you do possibly have a very stereotypical picture of the 60s. also what exactly do you mean by encroaching on peoples liberties? Maybe ive misinterpreted your point, but comments like that seems to suggest that it is a political choice to be anti-social, some sort of cognitive process. It is on this point I am maybe at my most militantly left wing, ideas of social alienation and a materialist idea of social conciousness would be interesting to go into on this issue.

    if you meet a deprived young person in the street who say has dropped out of school at an early age and spends most of his time moping on the streets, the behavior he will exhibit cannot be associated to some sort of reflective process by which he decides to impose his will on other people. have you ever met anyone so angry and bitter, so deeply hostile to your ways of being and thinking that you find it difficult to relate, they of course do not even attempt to relate. this is the basis for real anti-social behavior, behavior that is highly self-destructive. most politicians, except maybe the oldest and most traditional of true blue conservatives, accept that anti-social behavior is prevalent in more economically deprived sectors of society and is not a concept used to apply to some sort of idea of a return to the good old fashioned gentlemanly way of the early 20th century.

    i concede that there maybe those in our society, myself included who have a way of being in public quite different to pre-60s behavior. it can i suppose be linked to a more permissive society where young people feel freer to act as they choose without the restraint of common etiquette this can at times border on to anti-social behavior. say when your pissed on your way home and you sing loudly, shout, be stupid - yeah that is anti-social, but also excusable as long as you don't hurt anyone, its definitely not what eats away at society. it is not what causes violence, heavy drug abuse, robbery etc. these things are desperate acts not related to your conception of the student movement in the 60s.


    i dont really want to talk about it anymore because for a really very intelligient person, this idea you advocate is simply stupid.
    you did as the other poster did and mis understood my entire argument. i am not talking about anti-social behaviour in this sense and i did not raise this in my original comments.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i think you have to look at the effects that this culture has on people. it normalises it, says that gun crime is acceptable if you think your abit of a g. the music is a part of that. footballers are penalised in the same way for purveying a bad image to youngsters, yet noone wants to confront the fact the black music cuture evidently has a part to play in the behaviour of the black and increasingly other racial communities. it is whats known as a political hot potato.

    on a personal note, my younger brother recently sported over-sized jewellery and clothing. as you can imagine, he was reprimanded severely.



    hey, i've read all ur posts & u've made some really intelligent comments, but on this point i don't agree!

    i'm 17 year old black male & grew up on an estate in east london, it's quite a rough area, i've witnessed countless fights, about 4 stabbings and since about the age of 10, had 2 walk up and down stairs littered with needles, roaches, once even a modified replica gun.
    i've listened 2 rap music for as long as i can remember, i agree it can incite anger, hate, rebellious attitudes, but not enough 2 act on it, i am now studying a levels at college and will be studying for a degree next year, crime and drugs surround me in this area and it is very very hard to avoid unless u lock yourself in your house 24/7, i myself have dabbled in these activities but it was my mum who prevented from straying, parents are a big factor in this discussion, urban youths rarely have any positive role models, instead they are left to look up 2 the local drug dealer with his gold chains and bmw, life shouldn't have to be so hard for youths and with all the problems your teen years bring, you can see why they are attracted to this lifestyle and take the easy route 2 money, their's also the problem of the relationship with the police and how we feel they can't protect us, their's no communication what so ever between locals and the police


    For me rap music reflects what goes on in urban areas, u say it normalises gun culture, U, like so many others FAIL to realise in some places IT IS THE NORM!!!!! & u will never know that and u dont want to believe it because u have never experienced it!!!!!!! u havn't had to live here!!!!!!!!!!! how can u make such bold judgements?????
    a lot of these lyrics believe it or not are easy to relate 2, it's also admiration of the rapper's talent (some of the lyrics are really intelligent, funny, sometimes even philosophical) but primarily it's for entertainment, just a song i can dance 2

    another thing! if u were to look in depth at each an every individual case involving guns, honestly how many would be in anyway related to music????? Answer: probably none

    lastly about the clothes it only seems to be males who comment on how terrible we look, i think i look good in them and so do the ladies lol and that's all that matters! i guess the clothes thing is just a matter of taste, they're really popular amongst YOUNG peepz lol
    the jewellry, really tacky i agree!


    i respect ur view, but its so different to mine because we live in almost different worlds and have had different lives and experiences, u and those politicians are so out of touch with todays urban youths, i find it offensive and extremely annoying that you think u know more about our lives than us, stop generalising the way u do and stop blaming rap, the simple truth is it's just not that simple, u all wish it was, but it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Seems this thread has amounted to nothing but willy-waving (and the same old culprit is at it again). "Ooh look at me I'm cleverer than you so you can shut up and everyone listen to me!" SHUT YOUR MOUTH! Don't pull out the long words, stick to the point, like the boy Majik. And don't talk like you're above the people you're supposed to be discussing, because firstly you're not, and secondly it only goes and makes people think they will never reach the social level you try and talk from, rendering their aspirations meaningless (in their eyes) and making the situation worse.

    Vienna, what the hell has the 60s got to do with anything? It has no bearing on today's rap music, and no bearing on gun criminals. "Oh I'm going to shoot someone because in the 60s" - no I don't see it.

    Mr White, funny satirical article. Nothing else. Goes nowhere near offering a solution or conclusion (besides the sarcastic suggestion to burn books or whatever it was). And therefore useless in this thread.
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    (Original post by majik)
    hey, i've read all ur posts & u've made some really intelligent comments, but on this point i don't agree!

    i'm 17 year old black male & grew up on an estate in east london, it's quite a rough area, i've witnessed countless fights, about 4 stabbings and since about the age of 10, had 2 walk up and down stairs littered with needles, roaches, once even a modified replica gun.
    i've listened 2 rap music for as long as i can remember, i agree it can incite anger, hate, rebellious attitudes, but not enough 2 act on it, i am now studying a levels at college and will be studying for a degree next year, crime and drugs surround me in this area and it is very very hard to avoid unless u lock yourself in your house 24/7, i myself have dabbled in these activities but it was my mum who prevented from straying, parents are a big factor in this discussion, urban youths rarely have any positive role models, instead they are left to look up 2 the local drug dealer with his gold chains and bmw, life shouldn't have to be so hard for youths and with all the problems your teen years bring, you can see why they are attracted to this lifestyle and take the easy route 2 money, their's also the problem of the relationship with the police and how we feel they can't protect us, their's no communication what so ever between locals and the police


    For me rap music reflects what goes on in urban areas, u say it normalises gun culture, U, like so many others FAIL to realise in some places IT IS THE NORM!!!!! & u will never know that and u dont want to believe it because u have never experienced it!!!!!!! u havn't had to live here!!!!!!!!!!! how can u make such bold judgements?????
    a lot of these lyrics believe it or not are easy to relate 2, it's also admiration of the rapper's talent (some of the lyrics are really intelligent, funny, sometimes even philosophical) but primarily it's for entertainment, just a song i can dance 2

    another thing! if u were to look in depth at each an every individual case involving guns, honestly how many would be in anyway related to music????? Answer: probably none

    lastly about the clothes it only seems to be males who comment on how terrible we look, i think i look good in them and so do the ladies lol and that's all that matters! i guess the clothes thing is just a matter of taste, they're really popular amongst YOUNG peepz lol
    the jewellry, really tacky i agree!


    i respect ur view, but its so different to mine because we live in almost different worlds and have had different lives and experiences, u and those politicians are so out of touch with todays urban youths, i find it offensive and extremely annoying that you think u know more about our lives than us, stop generalising the way u do and stop blaming rap, the simple truth is it's just not that simple, u all wish it was, but it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    very interesting post, hope to hear more from you.
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    (Original post by Eámanë)
    do you think that the increase in popularity in hip hop msuic or music in general is linked to teh rise in youth gun crime?

    i am doing a reserch paper for media studies an would be greatful if some peopel could give me there views
    yes. am loads of rap stars carry thme and kids think they are going to be coll if they do the same
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    (Original post by majik)
    hey, i've read all ur posts & u've made some really intelligent comments, but on this point i don't agree!

    i'm 17 year old black male & grew up on an estate in east london, it's quite a rough area, i've witnessed countless fights, about 4 stabbings and since about the age of 10, had 2 walk up and down stairs littered with needles, roaches, once even a modified replica gun.
    i've listened 2 rap music for as long as i can remember, i agree it can incite anger, hate, rebellious attitudes, but not enough 2 act on it, i am now studying a levels at college and will be studying for a degree next year, crime and drugs surround me in this area and it is very very hard to avoid unless u lock yourself in your house 24/7, i myself have dabbled in these activities but it was my mum who prevented from straying, parents are a big factor in this discussion, urban youths rarely have any positive role models, instead they are left to look up 2 the local drug dealer with his gold chains and bmw, life shouldn't have to be so hard for youths and with all the problems your teen years bring, you can see why they are attracted to this lifestyle and take the easy route 2 money, their's also the problem of the relationship with the police and how we feel they can't protect us, their's no communication what so ever between locals and the police


    For me rap music reflects what goes on in urban areas, u say it normalises gun culture, U, like so many others FAIL to realise in some places IT IS THE NORM!!!!!
    no, thats not a lifestyle i have lived or can immediately relate to, and i am sure it is reflected in and by rap music.

    & u will never know that and u dont want to believe it because u have never experienced it!!!!!!! u havn't had to live here!!!!!!!!!!! how can u make such bold judgements?????
    what bold judgements? gun crime on the rise? anti-social behaviour on the rise? gang crime on the rise? drug crime on the rise? they are not bold, they are facts and it doesnt matter whether your black white rich or poor to realise this.

    a lot of these lyrics believe it or not are easy to relate 2, it's also admiration of the rapper's talent (some of the lyrics are really intelligent, funny, sometimes even philosophical) but primarily it's for entertainment, just a song i can dance 2
    i can understand and relate to that.

    another thing! if u were to look in depth at each an every individual case involving guns, honestly how many would be in anyway related to music????? Answer: probably none
    thats not the point.

    lastly about the clothes it only seems to be males who comment on how terrible we look, i think i look good in them and so do the ladies lol and that's all that matters! i guess the clothes thing is just a matter of taste, they're really popular amongst YOUNG peepz lol
    the jewellry, really tacky i agree!
    its not a question of looking good or bad as i made clear in my comments.

    i respect ur view, but its so different to mine because we live in almost different worlds and have had different lives and experiences, u and those politicians are so out of touch with todays urban youths, i find it offensive and extremely annoying that you think u know more about our lives than us, stop generalising the way u do and stop blaming rap, the simple truth is it's just not that simple, u all wish it was, but it's not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    dont play the 'your so out of touch, im from the street' card, because it wont wash. my initial comments surrounding black music culture had one sole point and that was, the messages being given across in the music and in the culture as a whole, and its acceptance in society, is one of lawlessness, crime and disrespect. whether you happen to identify with that or not is irrelevant. you can live your life as you wish, but when it starts having a broad and sustained output to the majority of the country then you have to take criticism on the chin. swathes of youths of all classes and backgrounds are seeing this music and its clarity as a culture. whether they take the route, and i accept you points regarding role models and a strong family background, that cannot legitimise public acceptance of such messages on the sort of scale we are seeing today. during the early 90s, drugs and then ecstasy were rife. they were the norm, but god forbid that any pop idol or celebrity dare utter anything but criticism for drugs lest their career end in tatters.
 
 
 
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