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    (Original post by edders)
    i think the more the facts are explained, the more people will be against joining
    I did say pros as well as cons. Whether one listens to the pros or cons more will be, in part, dependent on their basic political instincts.
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    (Original post by UnregisteredP)
    The Labour party thought IDS was their greatest ally - bet they're pleased they've got an even greater one now - haha.
    Hmm... a very intelectually stimulating comment there.
    I think i'll match it with the equally intelectually stimulating "huh?"
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    blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater
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    (Original post by edders)
    blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater
    True - I hope the tory's do settle down and start publicising alternatives more

    I know it's supposed to be the job of the opposition but the constant sniping about the current government just puts me right off

    I'd rather they came up with some reasonable alternatives (and before I get told a bunch of "policies" as I've said before I don't believe the numbers behind either of the two most publicised policies (specifically the scrapping of fees and the health passport) actually add up) rather than pointing out problems with current government policy.

    (Original post by edders)
    blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater
    I disagree that he's a good debater (unless he's changed a lot.) His trouble is that, under pressure, he reveals aspects of his personality that are very unattractive, even to his own party members......(Anne Widdecombe - "Michael has something of the night about him")
    Regarding Blair being nervous about facing him in the Commons - Tony is very experienced with dealing with antagonists during PM's questions - he cut his teeth on William Hague - now he WAS good!
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    I have to admit that Ann Widdecombe's comment actually made me like him slightly more - anyone she doesn't like has to be not too bad in my book (scarey woman was on the today show this morning - I had to turn over the cats were getting stressed out by the shrillness of her voice :shudder: )
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I have to admit that Ann Widdecombe's comment actually made me like him slightly more - anyone she doesn't like has to be not too bad in my book (scarey woman was on the today show this morning - I had to turn over the cats were getting stressed out by the shrillness of her voice :shudder: )
    Ann Widdecombe... why doesn't she run for leader?
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    (Original post by edders)
    blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater
    Thats true. I think Blair gets away too easily in PMQs. Howard will be better than IDS, but I though Hague was very good - but looked what happened to him .
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    True - I hope the tory's do settle down and start publicising alternatives more

    I know it's supposed to be the job of the opposition but the constant sniping about the current government just puts me right off

    I'd rather they came up with some reasonable alternatives (and before I get told a bunch of "policies" as I've said before I don't believe the numbers behind either of the two most publicised policies (specifically the scrapping of fees and the health passport) actually add up) rather than pointing out problems with current government policy.
    as much as i understand what your saying,

    1) sniping at each other is what parties do. i dont like it much, but if anything labour and the lib dems are the worst. you only have to look at an open arena like Question Time to see that everything is a piss take for them

    2) the tory policies are well publicised and consistent. they are also radical while at the same time being mature (ie past consultation phase).
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I have to admit that Ann Widdecombe's comment actually made me like him slightly more - anyone she doesn't like has to be not too bad in my book (scarey woman was on the today show this morning - I had to turn over the cats were getting stressed out by the shrillness of her voice :shudder: )
    take no notice of that comment. she was having a dig at him because he blamed her for something that cost her.
    its hardly a reference to his character.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Thats true. I think Blair gets away too easily in PMQs. Howard will be better than IDS, but I though Hague was very good - but looked what happened to him .
    hague was given the job too young. hopefully he'll make a political comeback in the future as hes great.
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    (Original post by Iluvatar)
    Ann Widdecombe... why doesn't she run for leader?
    because hardly any of the MPs would vote for her. because she would be a poor leader.

    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I have to admit that Ann Widdecombe's comment actually made me like him slightly more - anyone she doesn't like has to be not too bad in my book (scarey woman was on the today show this morning - I had to turn over the cats were getting stressed out by the shrillness of her voice :shudder: )
    That's very witty Pencil Queen - know what you mean about the voice. That aside, I see her as a person with integrity even though I'm not a member of the Tory faithful. Therefore if she has reservations about Howard I have a sense of foreboding about him, cause she knows him better than any of us.
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    (Original post by edders)
    hague was given the job too young. hopefully he'll make a political comeback in the future as hes great.
    i think he'll be given a good post under howard, as will portillo.
    while they are short of an obvious leader, under howard i think there are some fantastic cabinet ministers. in this respect they are stronger than labour in my book.
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    (Original post by UnregisteredP)
    That's very witty Pencil Queen - know what you mean about the voice. That aside, I see her as a person with integrity even though I'm not a member of the Tory faithful. Therefore if she has reservations about Howard I have a sense of foreboding about him, cause she knows him better than any of us.
    see my post above.
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    (Original post by edders)
    because hardly any of the MPs would vote for her. because she would be a poor leader.
    But she might be the sort of person the public would vote for.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    see my post above.
    So what did Howard do that cost Widders? Come on, spill the beans, I'm intrigued!
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    as much as i understand what your saying,

    1) sniping at each other is what parties do. i dont like it much, but if anything labour and the lib dems are the worst. you only have to look at an open arena like Question Time to see that everything is a piss take for them

    2) the tory policies are well publicised and consistent. they are also radical while at the same time being mature (ie past consultation phase).

    As for No 1 I know it's what they do - I just don't like it - I find it incredibly off putting...it's not a nice trait in individuals never mind in organisations which are supposed to be running our country.

    As for No 2 as I say I've not seen the tory policies (other than tuition fees and the health passport) other than on the tory party website (and I really have better things to do than trawl through that all day). The policies I have come across just don't add up (eg tuition fees - the extra money from reducing numbers of degree students pays for scrapping the fees - but the extra vocational course places promised for those students who don't get into the slimmed down HE system don't seem to be coming from anywhere - compared to the white paper which proposes the extra vocational courses funded by top up fees).

    And although I've stopped reading hard copy newspapers (that 20p a day just seemed excessive for something available free online) I do read the news and I do watch the news and listen to the news - so if I'm not recieving the message on what the tory policies are there must be many more in the same boat.
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    (Original post by Iluvatar)
    But she might be the sort of person the public would vote for.
    If she got in as leader I'd start donating to labour...I really don't like her.
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    (Original post by UnregisteredP)
    So what did Howard do that cost Widders? Come on, spill the beans, I'm intrigued!
    she worked under him and then he blamed her or scapegoated her in the sacking of the director of the prison service. she generally didnt like him for when he was her boss so when the leadership election came around she supported hague and made comments about intending to hurt him politically and ruining his chance of leadership.
 
 
 
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