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What Defines Club Size? watch

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    You missed out the mighty Leeds United. We are the biggest club and have the best support in the world. Fact. End of.
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    Fanbase, history, stadium etc all come into it. Clubs like Leeds and Forest will always be bigger than the likes of Fulham and Wigan, regardless of their current league positions. Fulham were getting 5000 odd when we used to play them a decade ago, Wigan were getting about the same. They might have had money pumped into them and subsequently been successful, but they'll never be big clubs.
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    to say they'll never be big clubs is a bit stupid... Anything could happen. Wigan as a city is more of a rugby based place so alot of their population are/were brought up with rugby. But now Wigan are in the premiership all the youngsters could turn towards football. Fulham are in London. and besides 15 years ago they were in the bottom half of league two.. Both Fulham and Wigan have done tremendously well to get into the Premiership in such short a period. They both have the ability to become big clubs. Steve Bruce is doing great at Wigan, So much that they are pushing for a european place this season. Roy Hodgson is doing fantastic at Fulham too.
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    (Original post by Vintage)
    Only because we're complete ******** with a chairman no-one wants.. But we don't just have a monopoly over the city. We have Newcastle then all north up to Berwick and the North-west just have Carlisle tend to support Newcastle (Although a fair few support Sunderland too) because theres no other 'big clubs' to support.
    Thank you. I have argued this for years with my Geordie friends arguing about how great their fan base is. It's good to hear me backed up by a Newcastle fan!

    One friend in particular is from Durham. The distance he travels to a game is probably similar to someone from Bolton/Bury travelling to Old Trafford. Yet he's considered local and they're not. The only difference is the lack of other options.
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    They've done well because they've both been backed by sugardaddies. Any League 2 club could do the same with the help of a Mohammed Al Fayed or a Dave Whelan.
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    (Original post by nicoking)
    They've done well because they've both been backed by sugardaddies. Any League 2 club could do the same with the help of a Mohammed Al Fayed or a Dave Whelan.
    Wigan never made any big money signings untill in the premiership...
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    Vast majority of the teams in the premier league are big clubs when you consider the size of teams around Europe outside of the elite.
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    The size of a club depends upon the fanbase, stadium size, wage bill, and media speculation and overview, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Laen)
    Thank you. I have argued this for years with my Geordie friends arguing about how great their fan base is. It's good to hear me backed up by a Newcastle fan!

    One friend in particular is from Durham. The distance he travels to a game is probably similar to someone from Bolton/Bury travelling to Old Trafford. Yet he's considered local and they're not. The only difference is the lack of other options.
    Yeah. it is a lack of other options. this is why i hope Newcastle BlueStar get promoted this season (currently 8th in Unibond North 9 points off top.. with six games in hand) There was talks of what happened when the americans took over man utd and fans went and formed FC United... There was an approach to Newcastle BS for them to open themselves up to be a club like that. but they rejected it. and eventually talk of starting another club stopped..

    Newcastle need rid of Ashley. And get a good chairman in. willing to invest. but more importantly have plenty of patience. then hopefully we can get a decent manager with an eye for a bargain. also someone who's not going to waste millions of ***** flops (Boumsoung, John Dahl Tomasson, Xisco, Hugo Viana, Carl Cort etc)

    i was impressed with Wise at the beginning. letting Keegan handle first team transfers and him getting young prospects in. But that went tits up..

    Newcastle are in the same calibre of 'big' as Spurs, Villa and Everton. Behind Man Utd & Liverpool are Arsenal & Chelsea then its them 4.
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    yeah, everton, toon, spurs and villa will always be the next 4 down from the top 4 known as pool, mancs, gunners and chelski
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    Couple of seasons ago I'd have agreed with you. But not anymore, I'd def put Villa, Everton and Spurs ahead of Newcastle.

    I'd say atm they're more on par with West Ham, Man City. I'd have included Blackburn there but they've also dropped off a bit.

    I honestly don't know how Newcastle would cope with another successful team (using successful lightly :P) I think part of their apeal (maybe one of their only appeals) is the fact that they are the only top level team around and so they have that unrivalled fan base.

    As fickle as Toon fans are I don't see them abandoning their team for another, so don't see it being too different. Alternatively, I could be wrong and the fan base could be split. But I then don't see how that would benefit NUFC.

    You need a chairman with patience but the fans also need to share that patience. Ashley was initially too easily led by the fans, too keen to impress and that backfired horribly for him. Although I admit he's not fantastic, you could do much much worse!
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    I totally agree with fans needing more patience too.. But if you look at it, We've given managers time.. Sam Allardyce was awful. we never wanted him. the football was awful. the signings were worse.

    Souness - Complete bag of *****. we never wanted him as manager either.

    Gullitt - Burnt his bridges by dropping Shearer. But we were rock bottom of the premiership at the time too. + look at his record as LA Galaxy manager too.

    Bobby Robson - Why we sacked him is anyones guess. Most toon fans loved him. we were 3rd when he left. Was beyond us.

    Glenn Roeder - Saved us from relegation after Souness. Got us europe. Couldn't do anymore. But the timing of his sacking was another stupid board decision.

    and Keegan resigned first time.. and most fans were sceptical at his appointment again because we knew he'd quit at earliest oppertunity.

    Joe Kinnear was only person who wanted the job. Were behind him. Hes useless. but were behind him because hes took the job when no-one else will. plus he's funny :-D

    But we've only had Sir Bobby since Keegan that we want or was any good.
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    (Original post by Vintage)
    Bobby Robson - Why we sacked him is anyones guess. Most toon fans loved him. we were 3rd when he left. Was beyond us.
    We were 16th. Not defending the sacking, but we were not 3rd by any stretch.
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    I get what you're saying about most things, but a lot of your points seem to be 'no-one wanted him'. Fair enough, but I think that attitude showed. Very few fans get to choose who they want as manager, they get lumped with them and they get behind the team no matter what. If they're a decent manager over time they'll start to turn things around, if not then....

    But since Robson, like you say, the managers haven't been wanted and as such fans have been quicker to jump on their backs when things haven't been going well. The managers have taken the slack for other problems (board room, inadequate players etc.). I do think things could have been different with more time. But the vast majority of fans seem to have wanted a quick fix (I say vast majority...but having spoken to you you've changed my mind a little, you seem to have a bit more sense about you regarding your team than the "not hear a word against them" attitude of my friends!).

    I actually think Joe Kinnear is quite good for you. He's getting on with the job quietly (as quietly as he gets anyway!) and it's working. Like you say, you like him so he's been given the chance to settle. Hopefully he'll be given the chance to build somethign of his own.

    Stability is what that club needs, I just hope they get it. They're a decent club and I love Newcastle, the city and the people, and the people deserve a club they can be proud of, as much as I would miss being able to take the piss!
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    I would argue that City are up there with the "lower top 4" or whatevers being spouted here, just another traditional top flight club whos had its day (with another coming not far off unlike most others), West Ham have always been there too and so have Blackburn who lets keep in mind have actually won the league, the "lower top 4" is ******** imo especially when Spuds have consistently been worse than the newer teams like Wigan and Hull and Newcastle not far off. ATM Spuds are our biggest rivals for signings, pretty much every signing we're making has been about fighting off 'Arry.

    What does define a clubs size is its ambition. There are teams there to WIN the league, teams there to do well, and teams there to survive, it changes every few years and for some every few seasons if not every season, but imo it goes beyond stadium size, history and fans, as no fan will complain with their club being more ambitious. Newcastle and Spurs are hardly in the "teams there to do well" this season, its survival for them.
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    Man City Probs are up there now. with the recent takeover.. But Man City havn't broken the top 4 or nearly in recent years.. Newcastle and Everton (i think) have had CL football. and Spurs and Villa have been very close (Villa probs will this season).

    Kinnear is a bit dodgey. We've had 1 point out of 15. but he has inherited his squad. he's had no money off Ashley so we have sympathy. and with recent injuries we've been screwed.
    Ashley needs to come out with his plans for the club. if he wants to remain in charge for a long time. Say a ten-year plan to challenge for top 4. Build from the back. Bringing in youth from around the globe is a very good idea. i was very happy with that. But it furiates me when Hull City sign Jimmy Bullard for 5m. Why couldn't we sign him?
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    how much wood
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    To be fair, I think a better question is "is there any point in trying to define club size?" It's easy enough to identify various criteria that might say how big or small a club is (recent trophies, turnover, historical achievement, fanbase etc), but to what end? Is it just so Man United / Arsenal / Liverpool / Chelsea fans can argue amongst themselves to pass the time between winning or failing to win silverware, and so pick whichever criteria happens to suit their club to support their argument? The same can be asked of Spurs and West Ham, or Norwich and Ipswich, or Blackburn and Burnley, or whoever.

    Personally I think it just comes down to insecurity. But kudos to anyone who can actually give a valid reason as to why we should care who is big and who is small.
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    (Original post by PeterMcPete)
    Sunderland and Middlesborough are pretty close.
    :sigh: *sigh*
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    Big clubs:
    Liverpool/Man Utd at the top
    Chelsea/The Arse below
    a big gap
    then Everton/Villa/Spurs/Newcastle all in the same sort of area

    After that, in recent history alone, I'd say there's a decent sized gap, thereafter, no doubt to be shortened by Man City.
 
 
 
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