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    (Original post by DOJO)
    What the **** have you been smoking?
    Nothing too hardcore, just a bit of Silver Haze
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    Well? People say it's stupid to believe in God.

    But isn't it just as stupid to believe in other people? What reason do you have to believe that your friends and family are conscious?

    Sure, you can see people, hear them speak. So what? I can see and hear characters in my dreams. And don't even try saying "Life is more vivid than a dream" don't insult my thread with such amateur musings.

    So go on, somebody tell me why you believe that other people are conscious?

    Things like "language" certainly don't prove that there are 6 billion human beings on a planet called earth. Language could just be a part of the mighty illusion.

    Does anyone have anything useful to say?

    Discuss
    Read up on 'solipsism'.
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    Well? People say it's stupid to believe in God.

    But isn't it just as stupid to believe in other people? What reason do you have to believe that your friends and family are conscious?

    Sure, you can see people, hear them speak. So what? I can see and hear characters in my dreams. And don't even try saying "Life is more vivid than a dream" don't insult my thread with such amateur musings.

    So go on, somebody tell me why you believe that other people are conscious?

    Things like "language" certainly don't prove that there are 6 billion human beings on a planet called earth. Language could just be a part of the mighty illusion.

    Does anyone have anything useful to say?

    Discuss
    This debate is silly because yes the only thing I have which I can rely on to tell me information about my surroundings is my senses. Ok my visual senses tell me that I exist, I can see my hand and my legs and this corresponds with what I feel. Since my visual senses have given me accurate information that my legs and hands exist (which they do I can feel them) they have to give me accurate information that my other surroundings (ie people, cars, animals) exist too since they are in my same field of vision. Ok now I know that other people/items exist, how do I know that people are conscious? Because they are made up of the exact same material that I am.. so if I am conscious they must be too.
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    (Original post by Profesh)
    Read up on 'solipsism'.
    I know what solipsism is, "Profesh". And it is my understanding that nobody has ever been able to defeat it as a philosophical stance. Of course with the calibre of intellect we have here on The Student Room, who knows what's possible.
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    (Original post by horrorboy)
    This debate is silly because yes the only thing I have which I can rely on to tell me information about my surroundings is my senses. Ok my visual senses tell me that I exist, I can see my hand and my legs and this corresponds with what I feel. Since my visual senses have given me accurate information that my legs and hands exist (which they do I can feel them) they have to give me accurate information that my other surroundings (ie people, cars, animals) exist too since they are in my same field of vision. Ok now I know that other people/items exist, how do I know that people are conscious? Because they are made up of the exact same material that I am.. so if I am conscious they must be too.
    This argument is so weak in so many ways, I can't be bothered to outline them all. I mean it's not that I don't have enough time, I do, I just really can't be bothered. Sorry.
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    This argument is so weak in so many ways, I can't be bothered to outline them all. I mean it's not that I don't have enough time, I do, I just really can't be bothered. Sorry.
    Thanks a bunch, I didn't want to type it all but I did.
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    (Original post by Phil2008)
    You've been watching The Matrix too much.
    my thoughts exactly
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    This argument is so weak in so many ways, I can't be bothered to outline them all. I mean it's not that I don't have enough time, I do, I just really can't be bothered. Sorry.
    So you can be bothered to type out your original post, you can be bothered to read all the replies but can't be arsed to reply to his, which if his argument is so weak, can't take long? Sounds like its too much work for you to think of a reply.
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    Other people know things that I do not. I am not egotistical enough to think that my conscious has invented the entirety of human knowledge.



    Other people exist.
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    (Original post by Christien)
    Other people know things that I do not. I am not egotistical enough to think that my conscious has invented the entirety of human knowledge.



    Other people exist.
    Yea plus if we are learning information off others but it is only a perception of our consciousness then it can't be new, surely we would have known the information beforehand if it was invented by our consciousness?
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    (Original post by horrorboy)
    This debate is silly because yes the only thing I have which I can rely on to tell me information about my surroundings is my senses. Ok my visual senses tell me that I exist, I can see my hand and my legs and this corresponds with what I feel. Since my visual senses have given me accurate information that my legs and hands exist (which they do I can feel them) they have to give me accurate information that my other surroundings (ie people, cars, animals) exist too since they are in my same field of vision. Ok now I know that other people/items exist, how do I know that people are conscious? Because they are made up of the exact same material that I am.. so if I am conscious they must be too.
    OK, if you insist.

    "My visual senses tell me that I exist, and what I see corresponds with what I feel". I'll give you that. A valid and interesting point. Bravo.

    "Since my visual senses have given me accurate information that my legs and hands exists (which they do I can feel them) they have to give me accurate information about my other surroundings". This is the first stumbling block. The visual senses may tell you that your legs and hands exist, but you don't know that they have actually "given you accurate information" about anything that is objectively "there". Obviously in turn, you also don't know if they've given you accurate information about anything else in your surroundings.

    "Other people are made up of the same material as me - therefore they must be conscious too". First of all this presupposes that consciousness has its foundations in material. Many modern day philosophers would actually agree with you, but "therefore" is not a good enough reason. And in any event, how do you "know" that they are made up of the same "stuff" as you? How could you possibly? Takes us back to the original point really.
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    Come on, get a grip. So what? All I've done is admit that there is a supposed difference between "dream consciousness" and "reality consciousness", qualitatively. It doesn't mean that they aren't both really dreams.

    Come on people, less idiocy, more points.

    :top:
    A dream within a dream?

    If other people don't exist..

    Are you saying it is possible for there to be concious characters that have free will within one's own dream, if so why would these characters have the ability to end one's dream resulting in death, is death just a state of unconciousness within the dream? If life is a dream and other people don't exist how do you explain death?
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    I know what solipsism is, "Profesh". And it is my understanding that nobody has ever been able to defeat it as a philosophical stance. Of course with the calibre of intellect we have here on The Student Room, who knows what's possible.
    Read up on Wittgenstein's private language argument
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    (Original post by Riddy)
    Yea plus if we are learning information off others but it is only a perception of our consciousness then it can't be new, surely we would have known the information beforehand if it was invented by our consciousness?


    Yeah, point, but you could argue that your conscious supresses the knowledge until you need it or whatever. Still a stupid argument.
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    (Original post by f.burton)
    A dream within a dream?

    If other people don't exist..

    Are you saying it is possible for there to be concious characters that have free will within one's own dream, if so why would these characters have the ability to end one's dream resulting in death, is death just a state of unconciousness within the dream? If life is a dream and other people don't exist how do you explain death?
    Better than that, how do you explain extreme pleasure, A.K.A sex, extreme disconfort and pain, A.K.A torture?
    If life was a dream, wouldn't these extreme feelings cause you to wake up to a state of consciousness other than life?
    If life was a dream, would we be able to think? I certainly can't think during my dreams, mainly because they are visions from the unconscious part of your brain, which means that if life were a dream, we are constantly and permanently unconscious. And if that is the case, what exists for us to have been conscious and are now unconscious? And if we are permanently unconscious, how do you explain feelings, free will, and the ability to think? How do you explain thinking about this argument if life is a dream?
    His argument is at the very best interesting, if not merely noticable, if you are on some kind of hallucinogen, but, unfortunately, we aren't.
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    (Original post by getinthevan)
    Oh God. You're back.
    my thoughts.....
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    (Original post by kwalis)
    Read up on Wittgenstein's private language argument
    I've read it, and although it's interesting, it certainly didn't defeat solipsism undisputedly.
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    (Original post by Keysersoze311)
    Well? People say it's stupid to believe in God.

    But isn't it just as stupid to believe in other people? What reason do you have to believe that your friends and family are conscious?

    Sure, you can see people, hear them speak. So what? I can see and hear characters in my dreams. And don't even try saying "Life is more vivid than a dream" don't insult my thread with such amateur musings.

    So go on, somebody tell me why you believe that other people are conscious?

    Things like "language" certainly don't prove that there are 6 billion human beings on a planet called earth. Language could just be a part of the mighty illusion.

    Does anyone have anything useful to say?

    Discuss

    If it's stupid to believe in God.

    And stupid to believe in other people.

    How then do you justify believing in yourself?

    ... You could argue: 'I think, therefore I am' - So on that token you could argue that you're here, for whatever reason... Is it not equally possible that other people are also here and conscious, for the same reason that you are? I don't see it as stupid at all..
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    whats there to discuss? people do exist.
 
 
 
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